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  1. #121

    Re: Soft plastic modifications- or ditch it?

    Quote Originally Posted by SeekingBarradise View Post
    Hi Steve i just had a read of this and found a few things i agree on mate.

    I reckon there are smart guys around like Matt, Trev and co that help in developing fishing gear for aussie barra e.g. the Jig heads, and they have been around for a while ( no offence guys ) like others who are smart on and off the net to do product development even decades ago if their brians were used to make a plastic or jig head.

    Do we all agree with that? Steve what do you reckon from the anglers you have seen, smart enough or not smart enough to do a good job in research and development mate?

    If anyone disagrees and think there aren't many smart people in Oz to develop barra gear let us know why you think that?

    My guy feel, is not a gut feel, i have met people that had the knowledge years ago to do this. So for me the answer is a Yes. But not everyone is interested in going down this path (needs to be noted).

    In summary does everyone agree that there are and were people in the Oz barra scene smart enough to develop good barra products decades back if the opportunity presented itself. All generations included out of respect etc.

    It looks like we are getting somewhere with the soft plastic thinking which is why this thread is a cracker. Lots of thinking and interacting from alot of members.

    Cheers Lyndon.
    Definaltly is and was, and can be smart enough people in Oz to invent plastics....Anyone who has been at the forefront of HB designs over the years would have some decent theories on a quality SP designs I would think...

    Theres a guide up awoonga way, JM i think is his initials... he has underwater footage, studies, data and a shipping container full of experience to know what a barra wants.....If he was to have the backing of someone in the manufacturing industry to produce the ultimate barra lure......well the sky is the limit.....It would be good to see I reckon.

    There are plenty of others....probably more past than present that could do the same regarding designs.

    cheers Steve

  2. #122

    Re: Soft plastic modifications- or ditch it?

    And we would all buy them!!

  3. #123

    Re: Soft plastic modifications- or ditch it?

    Good thread this JM has us all thinking. My question is tho...
    How long is a lure, HB or SP a hot item and then it gets left behind in the race. I guess there are some people still using HBs and getting fish, but not too many are talkin about it! JM still uses them I know.
    So if you did come up with a new super duper Aussie SP, how long would it last, as long as a Squidgy? LOL
    For all the up and downs of hem, we all have to admit they pretty much were the SP that kick started many of us into using plastics in the first place, although I struggled to catch well on them, always did better with B52s etc.
    Well Im off to Awoonga tomorrow to try a few days on the big girls, hope to have a report up. Be nice to have a Flat Tire hangin out of a Barras mouth, or a Shadalicious, or a Storm, or a Hollowbelly, or a Power Mullet! Or maybe a B52 or that old lure, a Barra Classic!
    Flatzie

  4. #124

    Re: Soft plastic modifications- or ditch it?

    How long is a lure, HB or SP a hot item and then it gets left behind in the race. I guess there are some people still using HBs and getting fish, but not too many are talkin about it! JM still uses them I know.
    So if you did come up with a new super duper Aussie SP, how long would it last, as long as a Squidgy? LOL
    I cast my memory back to the first barra I caught on a lure. It was a nilsmaster. I lost that exact same lure to a fish that took me over the falls and found a rock in Feb this year. The next lure I tied on was a nilsie and it got me two metre plus fish in two casts. Good lures may go out of fashion but they don't lose what made them good in the first place.

    Plastics are nothing more than part of the toolbox for me. I don't go without either types and use them all in rotation to see what's on the menu unless I'm tinkering with one in particular to find its boundaries.

    On the matter of boundaries hard bodies and plastics have much different boundaries but enjoy an overlap. My point with this is work out the particular strengths of a lure, where it works best. Then base your lure selection on those aspects, whether its a HB or plastic. Using a lure outside its design parameters to do something it cant do very well will usually translate into poor catch returns.

  5. #125

    Re: Soft plastic modifications- or ditch it?

    Quote Originally Posted by A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE View Post
    Lure Modifications- Or buy another brand?

    When we talk about lure modifications, we usually do it as a result of the lure not being capable of the requirements at hand. We can tinker until the cows come home, but at some point we must realise that scratching the lure totally and starting again is a smart move. Like in any manufacturing or design game, prototypes get used, abused, scrutinised, until a better product is re-designed and forthcoming. For many (not all) anglers, and believe me, this has taken its time, the realisation that dead slow moving soft plastic lures and barramundi go hand in hand. A soft lure that can swim very slowly, and on the free-fall is a dynamite barra catching tool. Recent printed wording has prompted me to push the level of thinking even higher once again, so anglers get better opportunity with the world of barra, instead of being kept in the dark ages. I'll be dead and buried before 2009 material hits the scenes on a broad spectrum scale. At the rate in which up to date information filters out, we'll all die wondering, and i'll be hard pressed and wear my fingers out doing the job that others won't or can't seem to do. When we modify any lure, we must ask ourselves what we are trying to achieve. With many paddletail soft plastic lure modifications (swim baits), the common result, apart from weight change, is trying to achieve a lure that swims more freely, and at slower speeds.
    A lure that swims effortlessly on the drop is a key element. (wink wink, nudge nudge). Scissors and a choppity chop, snip snip movement is often used to make soft lures swim slower by removing excess body and tail thickness. Many brand name lures were never designed to swim at slow speeds, nor where they intended or packaged with 'slow' in consideration. Kinked tails kill action- simple! So do we spend our time trying to make something better, or do we take a few more steps sideways in tacklstores and find lure brands and types that have already been tested, tried and re-designed to swim better? Many quiet brand names that aren't pushed hard often already do what others are trying to achieve.
    Would it seem strange if we bought a size 12 pair of thongs and took them home and cut them down to a size 9 so they fit, when we could have easily taken a few steps to the left and bought a size 9 direct from the shelf? Why would we bother cutting, cooking, glueing when better lures are available etc etc etc? Would you buy and then sharpen the edges of a big flat screw driver, or simply buy a chisel? If the price was similar I don't know who would bother doing that, or what gain there would be from doing it.
    So, what else is out there, and how far ahead are many of these companies with their products that often collect dust on the back rows, racks and shelves in tackle stores?
    Not only have many companies looked into swim action, "slow and fast", but they have gone and advanced into vibration variation via differing tail sizes, as well as utilising sound and rattle development for their plastic lures. All of these are keys to success in the barra world. The guns like the Taylor Brothers have their own strategy in plastic mod design that 99% of anglers are not ready for, so we shall leave that aspect out until these other gaps are filled and anglers discover what else they can start to do with their barra lures without modifying at all, apart from weight change, which is common place in all barra terrains and fishing variations.
    Here is a photograph of lures that will give you an idea on what is available and possible.
    Brand names or lure names here include, Storm, Berkley, Tropic Angler, SureCatch, Byron Lures, Phony Bream etc etc etc. All of these lures, straight from the packet, or from advanced packaging will swim dead slow, will free-fall and swim on the drop and are tuned to do the job- the homework has already been done for you; or very close to it.
    The Berkley Mullet is a lure, for the life of me, I can't understand why it isn't a more popular choice for anglers as it is a gun lure for barra, salt and fresh. It is pictured above the Berkley Hollow Belly in the photograph (another great slow mover). The Hollow belly in shot has been spiced up with an internal glass rattle chamber. It can be seen about mid body, also the other photo shows glass rattle chambers beside an Storm Intense Swim Shad- these lures are already tuned and swim all day- "blue cattle dog and kelpie" type workers.
    Storm is a name that keeps coming out of the wood work for me. They usually have great packaging, which keeps lures straight an true for better swimming action. They have also varied the designs, and sizes, and created various tail pulses. ( another key element for barra stimulation) The Storm Intense Swim Shad (3 in the photo) is a cracker of a lure, and they even have some smaller versions with bloody good hooks for a small lure. I managed a 115cm and a 118cm on that small lure just recently.
    The Blue lure in the photo is the SureCatch Live Shad (100mm)- it never stops moving and creates more vibes than you could imagine. On the free-fall, it swims non stop.
    ( It is in The lure section-underwater footage- in the Lake Monduran DVD)
    Bottom right- from Byron Lures- Holographic Swim baits- swims great, great construction. swims on the free fall at slow pace.
    Bottom left and up one- Storm lure- 'Finding Nemo' I call it. Live Sunfish----- I think?!?!? A great tail action exists, if wound slowly, lifted up and down, it can be a killer; remembering that any lure on any day has the potential to work better than the others.
    Bottom left, don't forget the curley tailed softies either. Their tails move at a slower speed again, they put out a light vibe that on the day can be the right choice.
    Top left- The Phony Bream- alive with vibe - very similar to the Live Shad from SureCatch.
    Tropic angler- mid left- is already jointed/reticulated so it has the freedom to swim. Even though quite small, this lure and all the others on this page have accounted for lake barramundi over 111cm long.
    I'd recommend anglers source some of these lures just to trial there movement- you may be pleasantly impressed. They, and others too, sit high in my choice box for Awoonga,,, or anywhere else for that matter.
    Happy Fishing,
    Johnny Mitchell

    I'd just like everyone to please re-read this great section as we usually miss a lot of great info after only 1 reading, especially if the thread topic is taken off track soon after. Sometimes reading it only once we miss much of the helpfull info that's woven throughout the text. Especially if like many (me included) we find it harder to learn from words in print than we do in person, visually and audibly e.g. shown first hand and joking told your a "Wombat" if you have to be shown more than a few times, e.g. like having to explain why it's important to have learning threads printed on the net.

    In my opinion 99% of us didn't know, understand or were doing everything printed in this great post (above), which is easy to see from years of previous posts. However it's easy to now know how important these factors are for barra fishing, after the fact. If you really did learn something here first (above post), remember this help in coming decades and see if this info pops up again somewhere in the future by others outside of this thread chat.

    With this in mind look and think about how much this thread will help us to make all future soft plastic buying decisions. e.g. with a open mind. Next time you go in to a tackle shop have a think about how many people you think know this info, next time in a caravan park think of how many know this info, next time in comp or with friends etc. It will ram home how good and at times rare this info is.

    On The FlipSide
    Or would you rather only ever hear 100% of your soft plastic (barra) learning from a company, or guy who has been sponsored by a company or a guy with some type of previous deal with a soft plastic company? Is this where we want to get 100% of our learning info from? You dont' have to answer this question, just answer it in your own mind, Make a choice, don't sit on the fence or lean on the shovel.

    I know guys that are sponsored and some are really good blokes & gals, no stress there, but i know they are sponsored and they dont' shove their product on me or deny their limitations, this allows a good friendly relationship for many a campfire yarn. They also acknowledge learning from others. All good.

    You can sit on the fence, hammer both sides then say sorry and think all is ok.
    Or you can read great info, expand conversations & use it to improve our soft plastic choices/fishing well into the future.


    Like the Matrix, some get it, some don't.

    No need to reply to this thread, i am following it up with a few Food For Thought Questions. The main point of this reply is to get us thinking about and re-reading some great info.

    Cheers Lyndon.


  6. #126

    Re: Soft plastic modifications- or ditch it?

    Chris I agree there are soft plastic from the US and stacks of them that we can use as they are gun designs. All have their own strengths and weakness etc.

    Steve i also agree there are people smart enough on Ausfish and outside the net from other parts of the barra scene to design a good plastic without the major faults you guys (Steve & Chris) were smart enough to pick up & list to help everyone understand more about barra soft plastics. Don't take this info for granted guys people have already learn't from your good posts on here where plastics were finally looked at from a lot of different thought paths.

    Steve's Findings/Faults.

    Slick rigs (old style):, good hooks, too heavy (not as heavy as some), reasonable durability, swimming issues straight out of pack, poor packaging, good colours..reasonable price

    Slick rigs (pro range):- hooks terrible, reasonable weight, reasonable durability, swimming issues out of pack, poor packaging, I like the Sfactor, good colours, reasonable price

    Berkley powermullets: good hooks (on bigger ones), way too heavy, good tail action, good colours, reasonable durability, reasonable price

    Storm shads: hooks a bit weak, too heavy, good tail action, good colours, reasonable durability,reasonable price

    Storm suspending shads: great weight, bad hooks/trebbles, good action-but only slow. Price bit expensive-but they appear more refined in making. Good packaging, OK durability, great colours

    hollowbellys: great action -all speeds, no hooks, well packaged, bit expensive, too flimsy, great colours, good size range

    shadolishous: great action - all speeds, limited colour range, well packaged, too flimsy, price-bit better value, size range good, no hooks.

    Manns hardnose: good action all speeds,hard nose, more durable, has 1 weedless hook, poor colour range, price average, poor size range.

    There is my honest thoughts on a basic range of plastics (out of packet) found in a high % of tackle boxes around at the moment...obviously there will be heaps of others. As you can see there a + and - for all.

    Hope this helps someone.

    Steve





    Steve I think you missed the original storm in JMs photo, the one with good hooks, I see it wasn’t listed in your list, but you listed another ones limitations by accident. The plastic chosen in the first post has all the attributes some like using on barra. That’s why it’s not in your list, as it’s good for barra fishing straight away.

    As we all agree that there are currently Aussies smart enough to know of these faults years ago, and acknowledge there are people smart enough currently working on hooks and plastics and hard-bodies (In past & now) in the Oz barra scene it leaves basically only one question to be asked.



    Steve & Chris you 2 provided big lists naming about 10 companies & about 10 of thier products with about 30 plus faults. How did the soft plastic companies miss the faults you listed while researching the production?



    Do you think they developed them on purpose and released a product knowing these areas were faulty?

    Then released them on the market to test the scene e.g. see if fisho’s are dumb and if marketing will overpower the lastest barra research/observations/captures/trials & collective thinking?
    E.g. If our marketing works 90% of people will buy it = Then we make millions of dollars, even with faults?. Do you think this happened?

    Or

    Did the companies plain and simple just not know they made these mistakes?.


    Interesting question though hey guys?

    And I wouldn’t have thought of these questions if you 2 (Chris & Steve) didn’t get in to a debate on this thread, thanks for the interaction guys this thread wouldn’t have been the same without you, it's triggered a lot of thoughts for many. These last few months have been crackers on the net with regards to good thinking posts.

    I hope to have a few more yarns with you when I get up to Mondy over the summer. I’ll bring up a few plastics to trial.

    Cheers lyndon

  7. #127

    Re: Soft plastic modifications- or ditch it?

    Steve & Chris you 2 provided big lists naming about 10 companies & about 10 of thier products with about 30 plus faults. How did the soft plastic companies miss the faults you listed while researching the production?



    Do you think they developed them on purpose and released a product knowing these areas were faulty?


    Then released them on the market to test the scene e.g. See if fisho’s are dumb and if marketing will overpower the lastest barra research/observations/captures/trials & collective thinking?
    E.g. If our marketing works 90% of people will buy it = Then we make millions of dollars, even with faults?. Do you think this happened?

    Or

    Did the companies plain and simple just not know they made these mistakes?.


    Hi Lyndon

    As we have already discussed ..... most of these ready rigged plastics were not designed for the Aussie barra market ........ they are simply brought into the country by distributors to try to make a buck.
    Unfortunately fishing is an accessory sport & too many of us buy something just for the sake of seeing if it works. ........ They may or may not - & sometimes may not be up to the task at hand - but stores still stock them in hope. that they will sell . ..

    For those anglers that understand the attributes of a plastic that make it a potential barra catcha - it makes it a lot easier to sift through the gazillion placcys on the market to narrow it down. I bet the sales of shadalicious , money minnows , manns hardnose etc jumped on the back of the success of hollowbellies

    Chris

    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  8. #128

    Re: Soft plastic modifications- or ditch it?

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post

    Hi Lyndon

    As we have already discussed ..... most of these ready rigged plastics were not designed for the Aussie barra market ........ they are simply brought into the country by distributors to try to make a buck.
    Unfortunately fishing is an accessory sport & too many of us buy something just for the sake of seeing if it works. ........ They may or may not - & sometimes may not be up to the task at hand - but stores still stock them in hope. that they will sell . ..

    For those anglers that understand the attributes of a plastic that make it a potential barra catcha - it makes it a lot easier to sift through the gazillion placcys on the market to narrow it down. I bet the sales of shadalicious , money minnows , manns hardnose etc jumped on the back of the success of hollowbellies

    Chris
    I'd add that 9/10ths of that success is down to marketing.... these lures were a success in their original markets where the competition for the consumers dollar is packed tight with good products.....the cream rises to the top on the back of good marketing and there are always a few that piggyback the train towards the top. I would say the same for how the Slick Rig has been very successfully marketed to the point of product quality not being the principal factor in its success. But you can also say the same for the next biggest thing in this scene, the hollowbelly has been well marketed, different strategy tho'. Don't be fooled, the marketing is there, seems to be more of a Viral strategy where quality anglers are supported with product and through their use of the product, and word of mouth, the word is spread creating the feeding frenzy that has every man and his dog heading straight to the shops for the next big thing. Shimano via the Squidgie brand has shown how it can work, you spend a lot to make a lot more, Berkley are getting in on the act now too. makes sense if it sells product. Either way, the bar gets pushed a little higher each time and this will hopefully benefit us all in the long run, competition usually always pushes boundaries further and further.

    Modify or ditch it?.....when they make something perfect for every purpose and every situation straight from the packet, then maybe we can ditch it.

    Cheers Roo.

  9. #129

    Re: Soft plastic modifications- or ditch it?

    After reading Johnnys original post again ( & it is a great post) ...... it certainly is a great help to those who are entering into the world of plastics.

    Now while there are many plastics that have great swim characteristics , most can be enhanced further ......... One of my favourite tools on my boat is a hole punch - (thanks Eric Grell) - Its a simple & foolproof way of getting a plastic to swim more freely. Basically all of my shad type lures get punched.

    Cheers

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  10. #130

    Re: Soft plastic modifications- or ditch it?

    i use a scalpel and a lighter to thin out tails and then hit them with the lighter to smooth off the sharp edges. the lighter also softens the plastic similar to boiling for a short period. i love playing around with these things.

  11. #131

    Re: Soft plastic modifications- or ditch it?

    Hey Steve one of those Suspending Storm Shad rigs i was talking to you about on the phone is the one i've attached below, its the heavier guage version and swims like a smashed boney bream.

    This thread has advanced on further on another site, and is getting into the setups of these Storm Shads, 100% hookup and landing fish ratio's are also being discussed if anyone is interested in tips to improve our fishing have a read i'm sure you will get one tip atleast. Enjoy the read.




    100% Hookup Ratio, Storm Suspending Shad Setups
    http://www.sweetwaterfishing.com.au/...ic,4948.0.html

    I'll bring up my experiments with these little critters up to the Awoonga Meet & Greet for people to have a laugh at or see just one tip that could help them out.

    My setups won't be as good as Mitch's but i've had fun experimenting and they have caught river, dam and billabong barra so they are doing the job, but could be better.

    Cheers Lyndon.

  12. #132

    Re: Soft plastic modifications- or ditch it?

    Quote Originally Posted by SeekingBarradise View Post
    Hey Steve one of those Suspending Storm Shad rigs i was talking to you about on the phone is the one i've attached below, its the heavier guage version and swims like a smashed boney bream.

    This thread has advanced on further on another site, and is getting into the setups of these Storm Shads, 100% hookup and landing fish ratio's are also being discussed if anyone is interested in tips to improve our fishing have a read i'm sure you will get one tip atleast. Enjoy the read.




    100% Hookup Ratio, Storm Suspending Shad Setups
    http://www.sweetwaterfishing.com.au/...ic,4948.0.html

    I'll bring up my experiments with these little critters up to the Awoonga Meet & Greet for people to have a laugh at or see just one tip that could help them out.

    My setups won't be as good as Mitch's but i've had fun experimenting and they have caught river, dam and billabong barra so they are doing the job, but could be better.

    Cheers Lyndon.

    Its an interesting thread ..... great info on improving the hook up rate on what to me has been an enigma - a bit of a challenge to fish well - suffered badly from hookup issues ....... yet a lure that ticks some unique boxes - certainly barra like em

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  13. #133

    Re: Soft plastic modifications- or ditch it?

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    The Storm Wild eye swim bait shads (aka Depth charge) are certainly favourites of mine ...... 4 , 5 & 6" sizes produce on a regular basis

    a point to note ...... The ones sold in the hard blister packs have down graded hooks ( the hooks are as bad as the slick rig pro lites) >>> So make sure that you buy the ones in the soft pack

    Chris
    Hi All ....... Just with regard to this comment ... I have noticed that currently the Storm shads on the shop shelves are of mixed quality ....... blister packs -
    The manufacturer may have taken note & went back to the heavier gauge hooks used previously not sure but I'm pleased if they have .

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  14. #134

    Re: Soft plastic modifications- or ditch it?

    Hi i'm just adding a bit of info to this helpfull thread as there has been some tournament success with the soft plastics pictured and mentioned in the original authors post.

    The footage might not be shown , but the info has been provided here before it's time, and the info was proven in tournament mode.

    Food for thought for those that want to take the time to look back over some very helpfull and successfull information used not only in guiding, social angling but also tournament fishing.

    Note: The soft plastics in the original post. This info was proven correct.


    It might be a good time to go over all the great info on this thread.
    Figure the rest out for yourself, by tinkering which should be the fun part.

    Cheers Lyndon.

  15. #135

    Re: Soft plastic modifications- or ditch it?

    Quote Originally Posted by SeekingBarradise View Post
    Hi i'm just adding a bit of info to this helpfull thread as there has been some tournament success with the soft plastics pictured and mentioned in the original authors post.

    The footage might not be shown , but the info has been provided here before it's time, and the info was proven in tournament mode.

    Food for thought for those that want to take the time to look back over some very helpfull and successfull information used not only in guiding, social angling but also tournament fishing.

    Note: The soft plastics in the original post. This info was proven correct.


    It might be a good time to go over all the great info on this thread.
    Figure the rest out for yourself, by tinkering which should be the fun part.

    Cheers Lyndon.
    Hi Lyndon

    do you know if that plastics was used in a traditional manner - or something from the abyss

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

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