AFC Selections

[Fitzy]

Hi Guys,

[With moderators cap on], this string has been brought to my attention & is being watched. Am more than happy to let the coversation & debate contunue to its final destination.

Please consider 2 points... If you rubbish Ausfish I'll kill it, and please no personal attacks.

Thanks all.


Garry Fitzgerald

[Braidmaster]

yes,yes,yes. Matt. it seems we are getting more people seeing the inefficencies of the criteria. hopefully we are gaining interest from more people who are wondering the same thing. there seems to be many different paths that selection can take place on. standards need to be set. a one track path that sees the deserving move on and grow and lead many other anglers onto the right path.

[matt fraser]

Most importantly it would stop the mumblings, and posts like this wouldn't even happen. Johnny wouldn't have to dribble on so much, and would have more time to eat biscuits.

Cheers,

Matt

[moggy1]

Names in this post are for examples only not attacks.

Barra fishing.
Where would it be without Steve and his ABT / AFC
If there wasn't a ABT comp to start with what would the Taylor boys be doing right now. The very first year they entered they went without a fish. They went home studdied hard on this site and many others to gather as much info as possible. Put much of there time on the water at the time as their father could take them. Came back the folowing year leaving the rest of us shaking our heads in disbelief and with a feeling that our sub standard approachs had to lift. They finally made there way onto AFC through the ABT, where now they are house hold names. Congrats to you boys.
Would the boys be rated a pretty good in their own area and not known by general public in the rest of Australia. It brings thought to the mind.
Jason Wilhelm & Matthew Mott just another pair of guides, think about it, i think differently.

What about when 4 stratos boats were introduced in the earlier yrs would bass boats in general have the same market they have today with tournament anglers.
What i am trying to say is why do a hand full of anglers only see the down side to what Steve has acheived in this country and make personal attacks at him through the tournament scene he has put so much into . Yes i agree that there are some flaws in the system. What system has not got flaws. I am sure that in due time and more anglers respect the current situations that the flaws will be rectified by ABT and its staff.

I know that in time the Tournament scene and Bass boats in general will take its hold on this country. But when and How long would it have taken without some television apperance of sorts. The tournament scene for years has been a place of higher learning and a place of shared thought and techniques for many. AFC has been a place where sub standard practises have been shunned upon and the utmost respect and wellbeing of fish and the enviroment have been shown and encouraged across Australia.
Only a handfull of anglers are not seeing this picture but degrading it and it's makers through to its followers.

I am for one Thankfull of ABT / AFC for what it is now and will be in the future.

Cheers Moggy

[Dick Pasfield]

Sorry Moggy I don't see your point of view. I wouldn't know the difference between a RBT and an ABT and from that perspective barra fishing would always be where it is today with or without any single entity, a part of northern Australian culture.

Does it need a tourmament culture, I don't know? But I'd suggest that the tournament scene and what's associated with it needs the barra culture far more than the reverse.

[TinarooTriumph]

Are we watching the Australian Fishing Championships, or the American Fishing Championships? Shit I dunno!

Nuff said.

Wellbeing of fish hey moggy? If you were a Bass kept in a livewell for a few hours and then lip-gripped and neckwrenched with another mate for a photo, I'd think you'd have a different opinion. The 'double' Bass pose is as good as hanging a barra up from a fencepost. Substandard practice right there matey!

Just keep in mind that Barra Nationals & Classic's have been up and running the N.T for quite some time now - ABT/AFC is NOT the only sole barra tournament scene in this country. Their competitions are flawless from what I've heard from genuine folk that fish them, these same blokes have fished 1 or 2 ABT's I may add. I know if a yank turned up on the Daly or Mary River, he'd be croc meat. ... and if Stratos/Skeeters tore up those rivers, every man and his dog would be croc meat as well.

[BR65]

[quote=Dick Pasfield;1062765]Sorry Moggy I don't see your point of view. I wouldn't know the difference between a RBT and an ABT and from that perspective barra fishing would always be where it is today with or without any single entity, a part of northern Australian culture.
quote]

Theres a huge difference between "traditional" Australian barra culture, and where the tournament scene is taking, or seeminly attempting to take, the concept.
My old man fished the Teritory back in the 70's with heavy handlines and live bait, and still to this day raves about the great fishing. That was the accepted technique for that era and location.
Compare this to the "scene" now days, based on stocked impoundments accessable to S.E QLD anglers, and an influx of ever increasing shiny bling, noisy boats, colorfull shirts, dare I say, all with an eye to the mighty dollar, driven by sponsors/manufacturers determination to shift stock and increase sales.
Is this a good thing, does it take away from the traditional image of the north Aussie barra "icon", well theres a whole new world to explore just there.

[BR65]

Does it need a tourmament culture, I don't know? But I'd suggest that the tournament scene and what's associated with it needs the barra culture far more than the reverse.

Couldnt agree more!!

[Dick Pasfield]

There,s a huge difference between "traditional" Australian barra culture, and where the tournament scene is taking, or seemingly attempting to take, the concept.
My old man fished the Territory back in the 70's with heavy hand lines and live bait, and still to this day raves about the great fishing.

Yes it's interesting that the temporal gap of 30 odd years you refer to also exists as a geographical one as well. It's much easier to visualize a mob sitting on the side of any of the rivers around home armed with hand lines than skeeters racing along them. And while evolution is ongoing, as anglers with a common interest we're lucky to still have that link back to when fishing for barra was anything but routine except for the very few that found themselves north of the Tropic of Capricorn.

I think that the cultural/traditional aspect of our fishing should be preserved to some degree even at the cost of some change where its strongest. Whilst where it's nonexistent the new will rush in to fill the vacuum. It's natural that both will sail along until one bumps into the other, that's already happened on a number of fronts, including now the media. Will it be a train crash or just two lanes merging to one?

I suspect the real benefits will come from choosing a direction to go forward in such a way that what went before is not lost.

[BR65]

Nicely summed up Dick!

You could replace the word "fishing" with just about any Aussie past time, and what you have said re maintaing the links to the origin would be applicable.
In-evitably, what is happening down here will have an impact on the "spiritual" home of barra, the top end fishery. I reckon the enviroment you live and play in will limit it some what (no place for a skeeter up there), but other things are and will flow thru.
Is that good or bad?
I think its a two edged sword that can cut both ways. Advancement comes at a cost, this is borne by the manufacturers (sponsors), who are looking to re-coup that cost the best way they can, thru exposure to the masses with the end goal of increased sales. Comps and tournys, especially packaged up and televised, are an ideal way to do this.

Enjoy what youve got up there mate.

[NAGG]

We certainly have veered away from the original subject here however its not a bad direction to head & makes for an interesting discussion.

I agree that tournament fishing needs to pay homage to the northern barra scene ......... specially events like the long run barra nationals & barra classic that follow a pathway that is closely aligned with the more traditional forms of top end wild barra fishing.
What we have with the ABT / AFC style of competition is a progression (a modification in format)...... & one that has a better fit with the Artificial environment of a stocked impoundment.
We really cant talk to too strongly about barra culture in our impoundments ..... After all - its only been 20 years since the first successful stocking of barra into Tinaroo. ( initial stocking were a few years earlier) ....... Most Barra impoundments have only been stocked over the last 10 years or so ....... & an ABT event has been held at some of these for over a third of that time.
:wink: Actually - We are the ones creating the impoundment barra culture ....... from the ever present wondering nomads , through the barra enthusiasts & on to the semi pro tournament anglers .

The fast glass boats are just a carry over from the bassers who ventured from ABT Bass events to fish the ABT Barra ......... The reality is that impoundment barra is still the domain of the humble tinny etc

*****More importantly is what has been learnt & has been adapted from the ABT /AFC tournament scene - & flowed on to mainstream techniques / equipment ......... Hell - 5 years ago it was all about trolling vipers or casting classics (50lb braid & big drum reels ........ Today we have a much more varied approach particularly in the use of plastics & lighter outfits ( momentum of this mainstreaming has come through the televising of the AFC & other electronic media) >>>> So in many ways some homage should be paid to Steve Morgan & his insight to create the ABT & AFC ... with the inclusion of barra ...... Sure guys like Johnny Mitchell , Lindsay Dobe , Rod Harrison & others have all played their part ........ but with the exception of Harro - the others are relatively unknown in the greatest market place (NSW & Vic).

While some would love to see their little ponds kept quiet so they can keep it to themselves ...... the bigger benefits come from having more people fish these places (SIP fees directly into fish stocking) + what $$$ are brought into the local community.

Yes people & organisations are making money out of the impoundment barra & bass scene ( Bream too) but through this , we do end up with a greater choice of product / tackle that has been developed & tested for our target species ....... Often in tournament conditions.

As a social barra fishoe who is preparing for my second ABT barra tour ..... I have my foot in both camps - but am ever grateful for what I have learnt fishing competitively ........ I certainly feel that it makes you a better angler specially doing the tour where you are fishing 4 venues over a 2 week period ........ Adapt or fail - so there is little in the way of a comfort zone ........ results matter

Finally as for the AFC ...... its nice to know its there as a possibility :smiley: - The selection criteria is getting clearer but !!!! A standardisation is required.

Cheers

Chris

[Dick Pasfield]

We certainly have veered away from the original subject here however it’s not a bad direction to head & makes for an interesting discussion.

Agreed in the sense that we’ve widened the discussion but it does lead back to the nub of the debate if we follow the path. Within the framework of barramundi fishing there is plenty of diversity both in techniques and motives; ideally common threads apart from the species bind them all together. Those threads are the foundations on which everything is built.

Does an ‘American’ style of tournament belong here? If you reflect on our cultural values that make up the foundations I’d suggest the answer is no, but an Australian style tournament certainly does when and where the timing is right -

Actually - We are the ones creating the impoundment barra culture.

And on that observation I’d say the right time and place has been found. However sustained success at that level will come only with Australian cultural values embedded at the heart of them. Some of the friction in earlier posts appears to cut to the heart of that point. What could be more Australian than ‘a fair go’?

It’s great that tournaments combine two very basic instincts – hunting and competing, (pity the third of reproduction could not also be included - sorry red herring!). The fact is that when it comes down to the final outcome the kill and protein bounty is missing. Outside tournaments the kill and the grill is often the outcome and for many legitimises the reason to fish, it is one of the cornerstones of our foundation. Whilst it’s not a part of tournaments and with good reasons it would be a shame for a tournament strategy to erode any of our cornerstones unnecessarily. It’s on potential issues such as that I’d be urging the greatest of caution; the tail should never wave the dog.

no place for a skeeter up there

but jeez it'd be great until that one sandbar

[BR65]

Give the crocs something to think about as you rounded the corner Dick!

[moggy1]

You tell me when the competitors in the barra nationals started using knotless netts for instance. Yea great comps and have been around for a while but the handling practises up north are still prehistoric. Many style bass boats have fished the daly river comps up there with no problems. My post recieved a typical ausfish reply, nothing but a one sided view. I used barra comps as a example would you bag it if i used bass comps as a example, i think you would. How many photos in magazines do you still see a large barra still hanging by the mouth only for the article to say it was released. Bass is a totaly different species of fish and does not carry the body mass of a barra.
The end for me on e this one.

[NAGG]

hmmmm , I want to know what a typical Ausfish reply is A balanced argument is pretty well guaranteed here ..... particularly in the freshies where we have a mixture of of social & competition anglers + Hybrids
I know a fair few of the social anglers here would enjoy themselves if they had a crack at the ABT barra tour ( if we could pry them away from their comfort zone )
This year we will see a few new faces on the tour & some will have links with these very pages.
Dont despair Moggy ....... for everything said is just opinion. I'm sure you'll enjoy the tour along with the other 150 or so anglers that will participate

cheers

Chris