snapper stock assessment

[BigE]

Hope we all like sex........... cause were gonna get screwed again. I only have one Q? at what number /Biomass tonnage do bag limits back up to 10 snappa? If there is no level at which bag limits go back up then the whole exercise is a scam! If there is only scope to decrease bag limits no matter what the size of the stock then it can only be about stopping fishing all together.

My 2 cents
BigE

[dayoo]

According to Fisheries snapper stocks in SEQ have been in decline since records were kept commencing in 1946. There has been reduction in bag limits (unlimited to 30 and to 5 in 2002) and increase in size limits (no size to 30cm and to 35cm in 2002). These regulation changes only halted the decline for two to three years immediately after the changes were made.

According to Fisheries researchers Artificial reefs only concentrate snapper in a few areas making them easier to target and, Snapper farming and restocking is working in Japan but is not viable in SEQ due to the higher water temp.

With the population of SEQ expected to double over the next 20 to 30 years the only way to rebuild snapper stocks is to cap the quantity taken each year. The quantity can be expressed in tonnes or in numbers (i.e. 400 tonnes or 400,000 kilos or 250,000 snapper based on average size of 1.6 kilos). There may be a need in future to move to regional management (e.g. Gold Coast; Moreton Bay; Sunshine Coast and Fraser Coast)

The 400 tonnes was Fisheries best estimate as a starting point. This can be reviewed after the first few years when more accurate catch figures are known.

Cheers
Barry

[dayoo]

Hope we all like sex........... cause were gonna get screwed again. I only have one Q? at what number /Biomass tonnage do bag limits back up to 10 snappa? If there is no level at which bag limits go back up then the whole exercise is a scam! If there is only scope to decrease bag limits no matter what the size of the stock then it can only be about stopping fishing all together.

My 2 cents
BigE

Mate, Fisheries is looking at a 10 year rebuild. No doubt if the snapper numbers are swarming like flies on a sheep station then bag and size limits would come under review. The only threat to curtailing fishing will come from the greenies not Fisheries staff.

Cheers
Barry

[Lovey80]

Thanks Barry for keeping us all up to date. I guess you have been in between a rock and a hard place.

According to Fisheries snapper stocks in SEQ have been in decline since records were kept commencing in 1946. There has been reduction in bag limits (unlimited to 30 and to 5 in 2002) and increase in size limits (no size to 30cm and to 35cm in 2002). These regulation changes only halted the decline for two to three years immediately after the changes were made.

I don't know about you all but I am hugely sceptical on these so called records and their assessment. Going on recent precedence it is fairly likely that the record keeping would be very unaccurate of the annual take.

Doesn't the info that suggest to you all that because the numbers are recorded in mass and not numbers that after thee 2-3 years the smaller fish became legal and could be taken again and were therefore heavier takes were recorded annually? Isn't that the whole point?

According to Fisheries researchers Artificial reefs only concentrate snapper in a few areas making them easier to target and, Snapper farming and restocking is working in Japan but is not viable in SEQ due to the higher water temp.

With the population of SEQ expected to double over the next 20 to 30 years the only way to rebuild snapper stocks is to cap the quantity taken each year. The quantity can be expressed in tonnes or in numbers (i.e. 400 tonnes or 400,000 kilos or 250,000 snapper based on average size of 1.6 kilos). There may be a need in future to move to regional management (e.g. Gold Coast; Moreton Bay; Sunshine Coast and Fraser Coast)

So if we were to go off the 250,000 snapper figure but with an increase in Size/Bag limmits and it turns out that the average annual take was to come back up to 600t are they likely to reduce the take again?

The 400 tonnes was Fisheries best estimate as a starting point. This can be reviewed after the first few years when more accurate catch figures are known.

But will it be reviewed that early or after 10 years?

Cheers
Barry

[dayoo]

Lovey 80

I'll attempt to answer some of your questions.

The total TAC for the three sectors (Commercial, Charter and Recreation) is expressed in tonnes because the catch of the Commercial and Charter operators have been always recorded in tonnes. The recreational total catch for 2010 will be recorded on the catch card as fish numbers and size brackets which Fisheries will convert to tonnage. When the recreational catch reaches 260 tonnes in a calendar year then the balance of the year will be closed to snapper fishing for recreational anglers. The same rule applies to Commercial and Charter when they reach their TAC.

This senario may not happen for recreational anglers because the tonnage will be monitored from the catch cards and Fisheries will hold a meeting with the recreational reps when we are getting close to the figure (say 200 tonnes). A decision will be made on the likely date of reaching the 260 tonnes with the bag limit at 5 snapper. We may elect to reduce the bag limit to say 2 snapper for the balance of the calendar year instead of closing the snapper fishery. Everything depends on wheather we reach the tonnage and if so by what month.

With the minimum size for snapper at 35cm Fisheries have calculated that the average weight is 1.6 kilos. If minimum size is increased to 40 cm then the average weight will increase to around 2 kg. With minimum size at 30cm the average weight falls to around 1.2 kg.

Cheers
Barry

[PinHead]

does this mean that everyone that goes fishing for snapper will have to have a catch card?
will there be penalties if no catch card?
what about snapper as a by catch? toss them back if no card?

[dayoo]

does this mean that everyone that goes fishing for snapper will have to have a catch card?
will there be penalties if no catch card?
what about snapper as a by catch? toss them back if no card?

I thought this was explained in posts earlier this year.

The proposal is that from 2010 the owner/skipper of a registered boat who wants to catch and keep snapper caught in Queensland waters will have to have a snapper catch card and a snapper symbol attached to the boat. The owner/skipper is responsible for the recording of all snapper caught and kept by all anglers on the boat and forwarding catch figures to Fisheries. Good luck to any one who manages to catch snapper land based.

Of course there will be penalties which will be no doubt discussed at the next meeting. These penalties could be an official warning, followed by a fine followed by boat impoundment and lastly a public flogging for repeat offenders LOL .

If you catch snapper and the skipper doesn't have a catch card on board then he is a bloody idiot and the snapper will have to be released.

Cheers
Barry

[PinHead]

will there be a charge for these catch cards?

[dayoo]

will there be a charge for these catch cards?

No charge has been mentioned at any meetings that I have attended.

Cheers
Barry

[Lovey80]

Lovey 80

I'll attempt to answer some of your questions.

The total TAC for the three sectors (Commercial, Charter and Recreation) is expressed in tonnes because the catch of the Commercial and Charter operators have been always recorded in tonnes. The recreational total catch for 2010 will be recorded on the catch card as fish numbers and size brackets which Fisheries will convert to tonnage. When the recreational catch reaches 260 tonnes in a calendar year then the balance of the year will be closed to snapper fishing for recreational anglers. The same rule applies to Commercial and Charter when they reach their TAC.

This senario may not happen for recreational anglers because the tonnage will be monitored from the catch cards and Fisheries will hold a meeting with the recreational reps when we are getting close to the figure (say 200 tonnes). A decision will be made on the likely date of reaching the 260 tonnes with the bag limit at 5 snapper. We may elect to reduce the bag limit to say 2 snapper for the balance of the calendar year instead of closing the snapper fishery. Everything depends on wheather we reach the tonnage and if so by what month.

With the minimum size for snapper at 35cm Fisheries have calculated that the average weight is 1.6 kilos. If minimum size is increased to 40 cm then the average weight will increase to around 2 kg. With minimum size at 30cm the average weight falls to around 1.2 kg.

Cheers
Barry

Thanks Barry, from previous posts from you this was fairly clear. I will certainly comply and get a catch card and report the results. I am the first one to want better data for policy makers to make their decisions from.

The part that I am really really concerned about is the way that the results will be interpreted. My fear is that this tonnage figure of 260/400 will be used to cry wolf and turn in further restrictions from what is actually desirable results.

If the average size of fish caught has increased and continues to increase like it has in recent years then (also allowing fish one or two more years to spawn etc) then the tonnage is going to increase isnt it?

I'd certainly rather like to see a 38cm for 3-5 years increase then a 40cm increase after that. But under current thinking if in 5-7 years time if we were still averaging 250,000 fish, then at a 2kg average we are being unsustainable because Recs alone are hauling 500t

I have heard many a time people saying that, as the Snapper min size increased so did the amount of fish just under that. Surely this has to be seen as the current style of restrictions is working doenst it? The longer the fish remain in the area the more chances of breeding etc.

I also would like to see the inshore prawn trawl fisher looked too.

I am not against closing the fishery for part of the spawning period either.

Cheers

Chris

[dayoo]

I also would like to see the inshore prawn trawl fisher looked too.

I am not against closing the fishery for part of the spawning period either.

Cheers

Chris[/quote]

Chris,

I believe Fisheries has already looked into the inshore prawn trawling and the areas that can be trawled has been reduced and the number of licenced boats reduced.

I understand that snapper spawning occurs at different times of the year depending on the area with the northern areas (Hervey Bay, and off Fraser) being later that off the Gold Coast. I understand from discussions with Fisheries researchers that spawning produces adequate fingerlings but the fishing effort is too much on the snapper that reach legal size.

Cheers
Barry

[Lovey80]

I understand from discussions with Fisheries researchers that spawning produces adequate fingerlings but the fishing effort is too much on the snapper that reach legal size.

How did they articulate this? How do they know that the fishing effort it too much on the ones that reach legal?? This really doesn't make sense to me. One would find it easy to assume, if there is regularly year after year enough fingerlings to support the fishery then doesn't it make sense to assume the current methods are working???

This sounds exactly like what I have been ranting about the whole time. Although there are enough fingerlings, it appears that some scientists have decided that the current tonnage is simply too much just because its quite large.

By the sounds of that it, appears that we are contuining to 'mow the lawn' every year?

Cheers

Chris

[dazza]

I understand from discussions with Fisheries researchers that spawning produces adequate fingerlings but the fishing effort is too much on the snapper that reach legal size.

How did they articulate this? How do they know that the fishing effort it too much on the ones that reach legal?? This really doesn't make sense to me. One would find it easy to assume, if there is regularly year after year enough fingerlings to support the fishery then doesn't it make sense to assume the current methods are working???

This sounds exactly like what I have been ranting about the whole time. Although there are enough fingerlings, it appears that some scientists have decided that the current tonnage is simply too much just because its quite large.

By the sounds of that it, appears that we are contuining to 'mow the lawn' every year?

Cheers

Chris

i'm with you chris,
if there are adequate fingerlings being spawned then there must be adequate breeding fish to achieve this, yet we are told that the stocks are in danger of collapse.
isn't the idea of size limits to insure fish have the chance to breed before reaching legal size
have i missed something here
at least when fisheries bulls%&t to us they could be consistent

i am all for the appropriate management of our limited fisheries resources but don't trust the policy maker as far as i could throw them

not having a go at you barry, you have been the voice of reason for rec anglers in this, it's the seat polishers in queen street who wouldn't know a snapper if one bit them on the arse
cheers
dazza

[BigE]

Yep
Plenty of talk about how and why the restrictions will get tighter but no target for when any restrictions would be reviewed towards and increase in bag limits ..... It is a scam pure and simple.
BigE