Size matters? or Quantity (Impoundment Barra)

[darylive]

There has been quite a few observations made of late that the Barra fishing in the impoundments notably Awoonga and Monduran has been tuff to say the least . Guides from Awoonga moving to Mondy to try to catch a fish.

The few reports of fish caught seem to be of big fish .

Has Monduran got it right with the cage to take out the big fish so they don't eat the little fish? Resulting in more Barra surviving.

I know this is a contentious issue and despite the camp fire experts I expect those who made the decision to implement this plan had some idea or sought advise from those who do..

Maybe we should be taking the big fish out in order to increase the numbers.

As much as it is good to catch big fish

I like to catch Barra and a few good size fish over a few days is good fishing. I personally prefer this than the remote chance of hooking a monster a couple of times a year. . It is not a cheap exercise with travel etc. and there have been way too many donut reports for my liking.

Not everyone will agree

I am sure I am not the only one interested to know what others really think.

Would you rather catch a few reasonable size fish including the odd metery or would you rather the opportunity to catch the odd monster even though they may be few and far between.

Now I am well aware there are differing opinions on whether removing the meter plus fish really has any impact on the population. After all how many fingerlings could a bucket mouthed meter plus Barra take out of the system .

I do not presume to know whether the removal of big fish makes a difference.

I would also be interested to know from MASA? whether there have been any fish placed in the ski jump since it was introduced (at enormous expense.) Perhaps the locals could enlighten us? Do they really think the few if any placed in there make a difference in a water hole that big? How many really big Barra are in there?

[NAGG]

Well ..... we haven't had this debate for a while now & it is a good discussion topic.

I for one like to catch barra when I go away....... they dont have to be monsters either Catching a few fish a day really makes it worth while

Having said that ....... Over the last 6 months I finally managed to land a couple of exceptional fish - & let me tell you ........ I went home very very happy after just landing 2 fish over 4 days not that long back........ (2 big fish)

Now as for the predation of the fingerling's & larger - I'd like someone to prove that the larger barra decimate the stocks ......... sure they have the ability too - but so do the Catfish , boney bream & the big bass that call Mondy home! - We haven't even mentioned efficient feeders like shags , Pelicans & Egrets.
As long as the fingerling's are placed in well protected areas that contain the right biomass - A reasonable percentage of those little barra should make it to legal length in less than 12 months.
In the end ...... If adequate numbers are stocked annually - we should have the best of both worlds in both numbers & size
Killing / removing the larger fish just for the sake of it (even if to feed the local aged population) ....... is just dumb IMHO - For in the end these fish are the real trophy captures for anglers ......certainly for the sportfishing fraternity - where there is nothing better than pitting your skills against big & powerful barra

chris

[McCod]

Yeah this ones been thrashed around before but that’s all good!
The idea of removing big barra on the grounds that they eat the fingerlings is ridiculous and unproven …….. The keeper cage @ Mondy will be a white elephant IMO!
I think we have a fairly well balanced fishery at the moment when you take all things into account………… Thousands of big Barra have carked it from the cold in the2 preceding winters along with copious big barra taken for a feed or mistreated by anglers………. And then on the bright side there are thousands of fish released to fight another day.
Won’t go on and on about it but will attach a link from 2005 on this subject. “2 sides to the debate”
Happy fishing

Cheers Les

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/sho...d.php?t=102320

[moggy1]

Why do people think it is just a barra issue.
Do we remove all large bass from say somerset so the fingerlings can come through.
What about the large cod in say glenloyn.

Personally i think the survival rate of fingerlings in monduran is quite high as the weed and structure of that dam is a perfect for growing out fish. I think monduran is going through the phase of being flogged by anglers. How many drive the extra hour up the road to fish a proven dam. The fish are not dumb and wake up to techniques that are quite proven. It is us the angler that has to wake up next to find the technique.

I see this just before every ABT barra tour. People struggle to catch fish. New techniques arise from the tour from people who put in enormous hours on the water and think outside of the square. The follow on effect months after the tour is large catch,s of quality barra at all dams.
It is just a phase, and it will pass soon enough. Big fish will all ways eat what they can no matter what the species. They have done so for a thousand yrs and will continue to do so. We the angler have to accept this and try to keep on top of the barra's evolving nature if we want to keep catching the fish of a life time every cast. I personally am very happy to have a mate on board to catch a fish of any size.
Cheers Moggy

[Big_Ren]

Well Daryl...me and Gaz are doing our bit to catch the littleys.....these pair of 66s were caught in mid June with Nagg at the end of a small side bay, which shall here after be known as Clickety Click Bay Previously I hadn't caught any barra under 80 at Mondy, and for us to nail two little 'uns in 15 minutes was perhaps a very tiny statement about the state of the fishery.....all positive for the future.






In relation to the predation issue, there are way easier and slower food targets for a large barra than a nippy l'il barra.......sure some will get taken but to the extent that it would have effect on the fishery, it is absolutely, unequivocally, totally negligible and irrelevant to become any sort of issue.

It's a blip in the ocean (lake), part of the cycle of lake life, and certainly not any reason for the ill-informed, the ignorant or the plain stupid to fire up their megaphone and advocate wholesale removal of the larger specimens.

That if ever I have seen it is a case of misguided thinking.

Cheers
Paul

[Big_Ren]

The idea of removing big barra on the grounds that they eat the fingerlings is ridiculous and unproven …….. The keeper cage @ Mondy will be a white elephant IMO! Cheers Les

Hey Les, that "thing" in the basin just needs a little less pitch and you, Trev and Woodsy could use it as a launch pad to get up over the island and into Bass Straight

How did you go the other week? Meant to call you.

Cheers
Paul

[Peter4]

Previously I hadn't caught any barra under 80 at Mondy, and for us to nail two litte 'uns in 15 minutes was perhaps a very tiny statement about the state of the fishery.....all positive for the future

Kyle & I snagged a 62cm and a 51cm barra in north B on our last trip in April. I also lost another small one when the hooks pulled. All of this occurred in a 20 minute period in a very specific small area.

Before this our smallest Mondy barra was a mid 70s fish but most have been in the 90-100cm range. My theory is that there is a very healthy population of smaller barra in Mondy but they are hard to locate and hook for a number of reasons.

Firstly they are more tolerant of water temp changes and can survive and hunt in areas unsuitable for bigger fish. Secondly, there are many areas of Mondy that are inaccessible by any boat with thick standing timber and very shallow water (& weedbeds) that would be prime areas for smaller fish. Thirdly, the much smaller barra of below 45cm will generally be caught on smaller lures. Many of us tend to use bigger lures in Mondy for most of the time and only change to smaller lure sizes when we are being unsuccessful for a period of time....

I think this fishery is in very good shape....

Regs

Pete

[Big_Ren]

Kyle & I snagged a 62cm and a 51cm barra in north B on our last trip in April. I also lost another small one when the hooks pulled. All of this occurred in a 20 minute period in a very specific small area.

Before this our smallest Mondy barra was a mid 70s fish but most have been in the 90-100cm range. My theory is that there is a very healthy population of smaller barra in Mondy but they are hard to locate and hook for a number of reasons.

Firstly they are more tolerant of water temp changes and can survive and hunt in areas unsuitable for bigger fish. Secondly, there are many areas of Mondy that are inaccessible by any boat with thick standing timber and very shallow water (& weedbeds) that would be prime areas for smaller fish. Thirdly, the much smaller barra of below 45cm will generally be caught on smaller lures. Many of us tend to use bigger lures in Mondy for most of the time and only change to smaller lure sizes when we are being unsuccessful for a period of time....

I think this fishery is in very good shape....

Regs

Pete

Yes Pete, I agree, the whole debate about excising the bigger fish is just a bloody nonsense. I would love to see the proof.......has anyone ever seen a bigger barra disgorge a little fella when they are on the deck?......Perhaps, but I would highly doubt it. More chance of collecting a bag of rocking horse sh*t.

The health of the fishery relies on natural attrition, a healthy biomass, and an equally healthy and regular stocking program amongst other things.

In relation to whether I prefer bigger or smaller fish........either/or.......just being on the water trying gets the points for me.

[darylive]

Yes gents it has been done before and is an issue of conjecture.

I am hoping for some feedback from those in the know about the project to remove the big girls. Having consideration for the fact the cage has been in place for some time now. What is the view now of those who introduced it :huh:.

Is there any information available on the impact it may or may not have had on the survival rate of fingerlings? I don't know how one would research or validate any claim it has done any good .

I am sure the food factor for the retirement folk is incidental, if there has been any. The money spent would have bought a lot of steak. :rolleyes:

There are plenty who believe the many thousands (as I am led to believe) spent installing the cage could have been better spent on stocking .:cry:

Again one would expect that some research would have been done prior to the introduction of the project and I believe it is reasonable to expect monitoring and evaluation of the project now the money is spent and it has been in place for some time.

For a start does anyone really use the thing? surely that is recorded.

As stated already what about the big Catties and Bass? At least Bass are eatable if you have to.

:undecided:

Like it or not a lot of money went into that holding cage with a view to improving the mortality of the smaller fish (as I understand it)

I would now like to know what if any good it has done?

[Steve B]

All the lads have summed up my thoughts well!

Nothing more to add there.

As for the cage, I dont like it, or the theory behind it. My mates at MASA know this too so its no big secret. It hasn't had a fish in it yet, but summer might be different....The idea of it is a 'warm and fuzzy' gesture, but the practicalites behind what will need to be done with the fish, and by who hasn't been very well thought out IMHO.

As for stocking, MOnduran will never be overstocked. The volume of H20 is too big, even at 35%!!! But the stocking that is done appears to be working great. Plenty of fish in all sizes this year are being reported which looks great for the future.

Why are the dams not firing for us???.....FOR US!!!. All impoundments go through peaks and troughs.

FACT -fish are there, cant get out, not dead floating around the dam, must be eating coz they look healthy. Stocks still going in.

It US that cant catch them...not them not biting. Cant blame anything else..simple.

Naughty fish, they should know by now to not change their habits....I mean we dont want to have to change ours..that requires thinking!

Cheers Steve

[Peter4]

Naughty fish

Might try to a spank a couple this weekend!

[Steve B]

Yes gents it has been done before and is an issue of conjecture.

I am hoping for some feedback from those in the know about the project to remove the big girls. Having consideration for the fact the cage has been in place for some time now. What is the view now of those who introduced it :huh:.

Is there any information available on the impact it may or may not have had on the survival rate of fingerlings? I don't know how one would research or validate any claim it has done any good .

I am sure the food factor for the retirement folk is incidental, if there has been any. The money spent would have bought a lot of steak. :rolleyes:

There are plenty who believe the many thousands (as I am led to believe) spent installing the cage could have been better spent on stocking .:cry:

Again one would expect that some research would have been done prior to the introduction of the project and I believe it is reasonable to expect monitoring and evaluation of the project now the money is spent and it has been in place for some time.

For a start does anyone really use the thing? surely that is recorded.

As stated already what about the big Catties and Bass? At least Bass are eatable if you have to.

:undecided:

Like it or not a lot of money went into that holding cage with a view to improving the mortality of the smaller fish (as I understand it)

I would now like to know what if any good it has done?

Daryl,

I will try to get some more info for you, and all. I dont want to splash false info, too much of the nitty gritty of it here. Its not my business..its MASA. But I can and will say the cash came from a government grant, and was not allowed to be spent on fingerlings. No SIP cash was spent on the project...if that makes you feel any better!!!
Cheers Steve

[NAGG]

Maybe MASA should stock Mahi Mahi in Mondy ........ because I know where you'll be able to catch them

The last time I looked at the cage ....... there were spiders happily nesting in the shute - I guess there is little fear of disturbance .

I just hope that the elderly of Bundaberg were not relying on this project for a feed

Sorry for the sarcasm ...... but MASA need their heads read (what were they thinking)

Chris

[SeekingBarradise]

Why do people think it is just a barra issue.
Do we remove all large bass from say somerset so the fingerlings can come through.
What about the large cod in say glenloyn.

Personally i think the survival rate of fingerlings in monduran is quite high as the weed and structure of that dam is a perfect for growing out fish. I think monduran is going through the phase of being flogged by anglers. How many drive the extra hour up the road to fish a proven dam. The fish are not dumb and wake up to techniques that are quite proven. It is us the angler that has to wake up next to find the technique.

I see this just before every ABT barra tour. People struggle to catch fish. New techniques arise from the tour from people who put in enormous hours on the water and think outside of the square. The follow on effect months after the tour is large catch,s of quality barra at all dams.
It is just a phase, and it will pass soon enough. Big fish will all ways eat what they can no matter what the species. They have done so for a thousand yrs and will continue to do so. We the angler have to accept this and try to keep on top of the barra's evolving nature if we want to keep catching the fish of a life time every cast. I personally am very happy to have a mate on board to catch a fish of any size.
Cheers Moggy

Les & Moggy well timed thoughtfull replies fella's.

I reckon you hit the nail on the head Moggy with us fisho's having to constantly get better, the downside is that 99% of people won't be able to play that game as they live interstate and are travelling nomads etc or first time fisho's from the salt so it's hard to tell them that each year they could be fishing the same lakes & species (Barra) but the rules have changed and the fish have got smarter by 1000%.

For us guys that are passionate and go Barra Fishing no matter what, it's ok we know the rules, and even then collectively we have added thousands of donuts in the last year alone, just look at Fuast comp last year or Awoonga's fishing for the last 8 months. Yes fish have still been caught, but in brutal honesty there have been donuts even from the best of guides, which results the average fisho having next to no chance, but as someone said " You don't catch fish sitting on the sofa".


The flow on effect from tours regarding info is because it's highly publicised in mags & there are a lot of passionate people all together in one place etc. Get the same amount quiet achievers or guides in one place and similar outcomes would be expected. People that fish comps are mostly just quiet achievers who fish a comp series once a year, they are mostly not people fishing comps every weekend in the barra section. 99% of their fishing is done outside of comps.


Other Learning Highways

Guides and quiet achievers are doing stacks of experimenting as well, not all of it is publicised. Some learn all they can from the U.S & others don't even look that way yet still can fish figuring their own methods out. We can all learn from both area's as their evolution is different at times which is a good thing for the industry & learning. It's great that we have these different sections in the industry.


Learning Outcomes

I agree comps, like guiding in 6 hour shifts force outcomes to catch fish that many of us may have never tried in a relaxed social trip. Like big barra and small barra these 3 seperate scenes all contribute to the industry. The comp scene gets it's message out loudly as it's sponsored then advertised in mags for ages after. With quiet guys say like Les on here who can fish, it's up to us to share a yarn or time on the water with and with guides it's up to us to find the time to meet them. For the majority of the people going to barra dams it's just easier to open a mag and read tournament info, compared to quiet achiever info or guides info.
But i rate a quiet guy like Les and his posts as being helpful when compared to any article in a mag. The same goes for guide or old timer info from some of the Barra pioneers.


Fishing Info

Travelling over North Queensland, Northern Territory and Qld Impoundment Dams i have seen exactly what you pointed out e.g. the info flows in all directions, from Tackle Shops, Old time guides, Quiet Achievers, Caravan Park Fisho's, Editors, Writers, High Profiel Types and so on.

But i have also seen total confusion even in tackle shops about what people are doing with regards to barra, which leaves opportunities like this and other threads e.g. we can help people just by posting. It's our choice not to post that doesn't help.


All in all the opportunities to learn are amazing, let alone all the info provided on the net for free. The only mistake i can see is from people getting all their info from one scene, one path, one road. I reckon we can learn from them all, it's just that some are not in your face and need an exploring approach to find, which is half the fun, meeting new people, travelling to new areas and so on.


Why do we go fishing?

I agree one fish on board no matter what size is awesome. A downside of measuring matts and the big fish wins attitude has seen some people ashamed at the ramp of fish from 80-90cm which is a terrible trend i hope disappears quickly.

We all go fishing to get away from the rushed way of life, enjoy the outdoors, camping and a spot of fishing/learning. One fish counts in my book. Hell if you are just there for learning one hookup is a learning experience if you are trialling with new methods, tackle and techniques. This is all fun stuff.

Good posts fella's & very thought provoking.
Good luck on the tour, i'll try and catchup for a social fish over the summer.
Cheers Lyndon.

[mylestom]

Just a quick question, if Big Barra are targeting the smaller barra, why are people still utilising the size lures that are being used?

Seems to me that this is just a convenient excuse, for what purpose is a matter of conjecture.

Maybe old age makes me a bit of skeptic, but have heard this same discussion/ argument for over thirty years and still no actual proof, makes me doubt that it happens on a regular basis.

Guess all those that have thought that this happens, then they could prove it by only using 30cm plus lures. That will take a lot of anglers catching fish out of the equation.

There are a lot of people like Kurt at Awoonga doing a lot of time and research on this matter, think I will wait a listen to them and not the rumour spreaders.

Regards

Trev