Reply With QuoteDERM. Only 40 percent of of DERMATITUS. So does that mean it's not a disease???
Tim
For those interested, i finally recieved a written report from DERM.
I'ts just a few weeks short of twelve months since i sent photo's of the mess to the EPA with a letter, asking for answers as to why this was happening in a river belonging to the people of QLD.
The report is from the MANAGER (Moreton Bay), Brisbane North, the report advises further to the update i recieved in September 2008 and is as follows.
1. The effluent was found to be low in dissolved oxygen (which is essential for aquatic life);
2. There was a precipitation of calcium carbonate (resulting in the milky discolouration observed at the outlet) as a result of a change in pH;
3. Given the complexities of the waste water treatment system there a number of factors which infulenced this incident, including the significant reduction in input water (as a result of severe water restrictions implemented on site in 2007 and 2008), changes to mill feed source and colder weather.
Amcor are undertaking steps to prevent any similar loss in treatment capacity of the wastewater treatment system that was seen last year. DERM is continuing review the effluent monitoring results submitted by Amcor, which are being undertaken in accordance with their development approval conditions. The results for dissolved oxygen have continued to be within the required condition limits, and there has not been any reported incident of a subsequent milky discharge of Amcor's effluent.
It goes on to say that they acknowledge and support my desire to see that such an incident does not occur again.
Ok guys, over to you lot that fish the Pine, keep your eyes open and report any crap that is seen being discharged into OUR RIVER.
Cheers,
John.
Last edited by Obi _ Wan; 02-08-2009 at 10:09 PM. Reason: spacing
DERM. Only 40 percent of of DERMATITUS. So does that mean it's not a disease???
Tim
Carbon Really Ain't Pollution.
Is that outlet into the Pine River exclusively used by Amcor or is it shared with the sewerage treatment works right beside it?
In years gone by there has been untreated sewage come into the river in the same location, hence the question.
Many years ago APM, the original paper mill, expelled lots of byproduct and waste into the river and the problems they used to worry about then was excessive amounts of "proteins" being released. Has there been any research recently on the "protein" factor in the outlet? Are the "proteins" still used in the production of paper and if so how are they handled?
Jack.
Jack, The outlet in question is the one a bit further up stream than the sewerage outlet, it is marked by a large yellow "X" marine warning sign and is without question the paper mill.
Sorry mate i can't answer your question on the proteins as all i have is what the EPA (DERM) have given me and i have reported in this thread. I have been told they have a licence to discharge certain matter into the river but it must be within the guidelines demanded by the EPA. they have not given me the details.
So all i can say as an extra is that they got a bit upset when i said i would get some testing carried out independantly and said i could not do that. If i see that crap flowing in our river again i will certainly take some samples and find someone who can carry out the tests.
John.
Now THAT is a red flag to a bull. Why are they worried about you having testing done? What are they hiding?Originally Posted by Obi _ Wan
Cheers,
Tim
Carbon Really Ain't Pollution.
Hi John,
Mate, ECOfishers QLD will help with getting the testing of the water samples done. I have been watching this thread and waiting for the response from the EPA/DERM and it really is not an acceptable response at all. In my opinion it really says is yes they can dump crap, yes we let them there are guidelines, thanks for giving us a years worth of work we can write-off and don't you worry a thing.
Every major waterway running into Moreton Bay has failed its "healthy waterways" tests for the last 5 years alone. ECOfishers don't think it is good enough at all that this continues so we are in the process of getting sampling systems and procedures in place and selecting an independant laboratory to get tests performed. We aren't quite there yet but in the meantime we are very interested in getting to know what really is in the water.
Cheers,
Chris
Cheers,
Chris
Would it be helpful for those of us who fish the Pine regularly to carry some clean jars or sample jars to collect samples when the outlet is doing its worst?
I can see WHY EPA/DERM doesn't want you to collect a water sample but I can't see HOW they can stop a citizen from collecting a water sample from the vicinity of an outfall pipe emptying into any public portion of a river and then having the water tested privately.
It would be interesting to refer to their response and ask DERM to advise you of any regulation they have that prevents you from collecting and testing water samples from a public waterway.
If there is no regulation preventing you from doing this, it would cause them extreme embarassment if it were disclosed (along with a subsequent bad water sample report) that they wrote and advised that you can't, lawfully, do that.
I think you hit a raw nerve mate.
GES
It would mate but the jars need to be sterile and the water taken from the top, middle and bottom of the water column in the area then sealed in another bag to stop cross contamination.
We will get a procedure document done up on how to take samples properly and post it here for all to use. Even though we are talking about the Pine here, the issue is still alive for the Brisbane, Logan, Pimpama, Coomera, and Nerang Rivers.
Cheers,
Chris
Cheers,
Chris
If you are going to collect samples, collect about 2 lites to make sure you have enough water for various tests that might need to be done and immediately put the sample bottle out of the sun, and in ice or a fridge. Otherwise the sample may not be any good for testing.
GES
Thanks for the reply Chris, after i raised this post and watched it for a few days i started to think that no one really cared about the Pine as there were next to no replies.
I have started a number of threads on this topic, here in the News section, one of those contain the pictures i took of the event, that is what got the EPA going and talking to me as it showed just how bad it was.
I was advised by a chemist that the waste from the paper mill, containing all the chemicals required to treat paper product would be very much the same a raw sewage, it certainly smells like it. When i informed the EPA of this they got up tight and said no-no- thats not correct.
There have been a number of reports that when fishermen on the river have spoken to mill workers about the stench the mill people have said, "No it's not us it's the sewerage treatment plant this of course is not correct, it is the paper mill.
The old rule of thumb up the Pine is, NO Smell some fish, Stinky Pine no fish.
I raised this problem with my local state member who passed it on to the Minister of Natural Resources and Water, who wrote to me and passed it over to the EPA whom i was already having discussions. I even asked the question, is this the reason that Bramble Bay constantly records the worst water quality in Moreton Bay----No answer.
I have taken the line that the River belongs to the people of QLD, not the EPA, State Gov or the Paper Mill.
I threatened to make the Greenies aware of this problem, but i guess that would be a waste. Have a lookon the Web and see who is the 7th largest contributor to political parties in this country, at least they were when i had a look.
Mate, i don't want to see the mill closed down, all i would like to see is that the discharge does not harm the ecology of the Pine River.
Cheers,
John.
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