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  1. #106

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Just one thing that pops to mind mechenics of the idividual, I know from my sporting background that certain make ups of different blokes allows different outcomes, for exsample what lyndon was saying about a youngster out throwing a ball to that of a older fella... This is very true the projectile of a throw is all down to a smooth delivery, this should also occur in a cast to some extent. As I said I use a longer butted rod for this... Does it stop there what else does the rod you use offer more then just a cast I personally think the cast is somewhat the start of the equation, the ability to use it through the recovery and they way it presents you lure is also a big factor.

    The lure is in the water my rod is resonably short and not as heavy as most on here seen to use but it offers me a slower presintation due to as I twitch the lure placcy it does not react as quick nore does it move as jurky, it seems to be that second slower retrive?

    Other then that when a fish it hooked and at the boat I can use the extra butt length as a great shock absorber by dropping my hands tyo the end thus gives me a shorter line lenght between me and the fish ( I fish solo a bit hence how i picked this up) and also if the fish should run there is less friction due to more flex and looser wrist position, and if it should run a bit heavier I can once again choke up.

  2. #107

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    I would find it interesting to see the different distances aquired from different casting techniques. I do not adopt the same casting technique every time in every condition. For example i tend to flick cast when trying to attain accurracy at mid distance but extned the length of the casting movement arc as distance increases. When i want to go purely for distance i hang the lure and rod behind me (no back cast as such) and launch the lure straight over my shoulder. It would be interesting see the difference in distances attained by different casting styles

  3. #108

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Tried two rods in the backyard both with the stella 20lb sunline pe 40lb leader and a dehooked tango dancer. 1st rod 6ft gary howards samuari nv7, flick casting max casting distance 46m avarage just over 40m. Roll casting (for lack of a better name) around the low 40's. Second rod daiwa advantage dredback 7ft 10-17lb. Casting distance roughly the same for the two styles max cast was 48m flick casting. casting in my backyard ment i was not able to get the height that i wanted due to trees or fully lay into the cast properly. i would say that unrestricted distances would be closer to the 50 mark. I found it interesting how the shorter rod performed just as well, the stiffer more responsive graphite defineately felt like it transferred energy better than the daiwa. These rods are both relatively cheap, it would be interesting how they shape up to a more expensive rod with sic guides etc. Another note is while the flick cast generates more distance the skill and effort required to do so is considerably more than a roll cast. For newbies or extended periods it is probably the more ideal casting method.

  4. #109

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Pasfield View Post
    I'm not sure about that one yet Lyndon, been ruminating on why you all mention the leader as a critical component. Is that because your leader and knot is long enough to end up through the runners and maybe even onto the spool a tad. I ask because my leaders are nearly always less than a metre and sit beyond the tip, only the double knot touches a runner. ??????
    Yep agree Dick, I only run 40cm max leader...right down to 20cm after lure changes!!! then I retie.

  5. #110

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Once again ...... I tried another spin combo over the weekend & I'm still not convinced that a spin combo offers any true casting advantage ........ & certainly not a tool I would be choosing to twitch a HB lure

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  6. #111

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Nagg,
    That is fine mate, you don't need to be convinced, nor do you need to have to find any reason that suits your mind set. For others, the answer is easier to find. A lot of this comes down to you, your preference; your fishing style. There are plenty of HB's and techniques that I don't enjoy working on a spin outfit either, but plenty that are fine. Both tackle choices have their spot on a fishing boat, be it reef or barra. The spin takes over where ultra small/light lures are fished, or where simplistic casting methods are required to attain a suitable cast length, or for max cast length............not to briefly mention again the essential need for speed on hooked fish. Why do bream anglers mainly use spin outfits to cast their tiny presentations? Why don't we see baitcasters as a trend here? This is just a guess, but maybe you haven't fished ultra tiny barra lures yet, hence why you find baitcasting equipment more suitable. With heavy lures, yea, i'd nearly match cast length with my baitcasters and spin outfits, but when you scale down, the real game begins.
    Johnny

  7. #112

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE View Post
    Nagg,
    That is fine mate, you don't need to be convinced, nor do you need to have to find any reason that suits your mind set. For others, the answer is easier to find. A lot of this comes down to you, your preference; your fishing style. There are plenty of HB's and techniques that I don't enjoy working on a spin outfit either, but plenty that are fine. Both tackle choices have their spot on a fishing boat, be it reef or barra. The spin takes over where ultra small/light lures are fished, or where simplistic casting methods are required to attain a suitable cast length, or for max cast length............not to briefly mention again the essential need for speed on hooked fish. Why do bream anglers mainly use spin outfits to cast their tiny presentations? Why don't we see baitcasters as a trend here? This is just a guess, but maybe you haven't fished ultra tiny barra lures yet, hence why you find baitcasting equipment more suitable. With heavy lures, yea, i'd nearly match cast length with my baitcasters and spin outfits, but when you scale down, the real game begins.
    Johnny
    Hi Johnny

    You probably didn't know ..... but lurecasting for bream has been my staple form of fishing for the last 3 years ....... All spin gear 2-3kg line (3g HBs & 1/32 jig heads) - not a baitcaster to be seen.
    I dont know what you consider a ultra light presentation in barra fishing - but I've certainly gone down to 4" hollowbellys on unweighted worm hooks ..... Though not with my standard barra gear - I use my bass baitcast gear ( I had some success during the ABT tour using this gear in the pressured environment).
    Speed ..... yep , when a fish swims toward you - you cant have enough.

    I think most of us would agree that all barra outfits are a compromise in one way or another ........ though with a trend that is moving toward barra spin tackle - I'm left scratching my head & from the rods I have used or seen used - They seem to be limited in their versatility ...... due to the blank design ( a snapper rod makes for a limited barra rod - & thats what most people are using)........... I've now used / tried the most popular barra spin stick (Egrell & Bear S10) on 4 occasions - & while it makes for a nice point casting placcy rod ....... Well - I'm still waiting for someone to hand me a spin rod & say - "This is the ducks nuts for barra!" ...... I reckon I'll be waiting a long time

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  8. #113

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    If you used a bass bc on barra for worm hooked hollow bellies why don't you use bass spin setups on barra if you aren't happy with barra spin setups? This would be a fair trial. These setups cast bream gear pretty well hey?

    There is some footage of Motty catching barra on these outfits with i think 14lb line and catching Barra on spinner baits.

    Don't argue, just try your bass spin setups on barra next time and see how they go. I'm sure you already have. If they worked well just use them on barra and you now have your barra spin setup. Job done.

    You might have tried 50 bc combo's in your life but how many specific barra combos for spin have you tried? If the ratio is 90% to 10% it'shardly a fair amount of research and opinion would be much higher than research.

    As a mostly self judged sport maybe it's time for you to get on a boat and get on the water with some of the better fisho's on the net or those that never get on the net. People you haven't fished with. Ask them to go to town on your entire game. At the moment you are judging yourself, but who says you are right?

    Then you will be exposed to people that are better fisho's than you and 10 times better than me. Maybe we could learn a bit. I see knowledge as the main thing you are seeking here, if the bc v spin question is a genuine open learning question asked without your mind already made up.


    Maybe you have maxed out the ability to learn from the net, now it's time for 20 years of face to face in person and not self judging advice. Time to get some other ideas in person from others that are better fisho's than you and i mate. At the end of the day it's a good opportunity to learn and not everything in life is free, nor should it be. With the invention of the net these guys have never been closer to us or more approachable. Through the net we can meet people who we would never see or hear of throughout the course of our lives. A great opportunity.

    The choice to stay on the net and sift for free without face to face learning would at times be seen as sitting in the comfort zone and it could go on for decades without finding out what we don't know. In any organised sport the first thing you do it test for weakness. Then develop a plan to improve them. Then we can start to formulate a organised plan to start a long journey down the road to improve our weakest areas while improving our strengths as well. This should be fun Chris. For this to happen a couple of things are needed.

    1. Ego has to go as it is the biggest road block to learning.
    2. Listening and a open mind are needed.
    3. Action rather than words are needed.

    I'm not talking about being the best guide in the world, best tournament guru, i'm just typing this as a learning solution/suggestion we can all use to enjoy fishing and learning over a lifetime no matter what level we are at. No comp ranking needed, guide ranking, social ranking or Barra Bench Press ranking etc. Just some ideas that might be helpfull to learn from.

    So in summary you have found that out of all the rods and spin reels ever made on earth, there are no really good barramundi spin rod and reel setups?

    I reckon your current strategy is too reliant on the net which in reality could only be less than 1% of the whole equation in Barramundi Fishing & Learning.

    Cheers Lyndon.

  9. #114

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Why do bream anglers mainly use spin outfits to cast their tiny presentations? Why don't we see baitcasters as a trend here?
    Nagg, I read/ peruse most of the mixed stuff you write, and yes I am aware of your bream history, hence the questions I asked, above.
    A 4 inch hollow belly, even unweighted is still quite a large presentation in the book of small lures and small food sources in barra lakes and rivers. As passed on earlier, you have lots more to experience in the barra world, and the chapter of small, light barra lures is one you will/may one day step into. When you do, I'd bet $ you will be doing it with spin.
    I don't think the trend is moving toward spin tackle at all, nor as an answer to all problems, but it has been highlighted that it has a place in the form.
    If you think most people are using snapper rods for barra and you find that to be a bad idea, then maybe you shouldn't follow that pattern- and migrate down your own path, and it's easy to see, your path is baitcast. As far as versatility goes, I really don't see where you are going with that one, as both spin and baitcast will present the same scenario. A good angler will make the most and adapt with whatever tools he has to use. There are plenty of outfits in the spin world that are great lake fishing tools. Maybe you are too fussy, or looking for something that will catch fish on its own, or searching for something, that in your own eyes, really isnt there. No doubt you would pick up my personal and charter spin tackle and disregard it as not being suitable to your needs, but if what they have done for me and my clients over the last few years is anything to measure suitability by, then they have filled that gap nicely. I really cannot see why you keep going down the road of 'spin tackle not offering any real advantage'.
    Throw a basic answer to the two early questions and see where you end up.
    Johnny

  10. #115

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Hi Lyndon & Johnny

    This could be a long winded response ...... so here goes

    * Firstly I'm pretty open minded when it comes to fishing ( & certainly when it comes to barra) - It is a steep learning curve but mine is one based on trial & error in combination with the net , face to face & asking questions - listening! .... I'm putting more time on the water & fishing with more people ..... some talented in barra (no doubt when the time is right - I'll pay the cash to spend time on the water with some barra legend)
    It may sound like I'm dismissive of spin gear :rolleyes: but I'm not (completely) - otherwise I wouldn't have spent some hard earned looking to come up with a suitable outfit ....... not to please anyone else ! or to follow - just to add another option............ & if there is any notion that this is not the case Now while going through this process , I continually come across issues that in my mind detract from the chosen task.

    These are some .... that I have noticed

    *Grip configuration .. Often too big ( great for casting not so for working a lure or placcy)

    *Butt section too long The rod bangs the inside of a forearm on any downward twitch ..... you need to twitch in an upward or side way stroke to work a hard body.
    The long butt does make for efficient long casting ..... & comfortable fighting of a fish in an up & down situation.
    * Short butt section .. These rods are usually heavier bream & bass rods which are matched to <2500 size reels & have tapers that are more suited to throwing small lures ..... not typical barra lures (even frogs)
    Unfortunately fighting a decent barra on a short handle spin stick is pretty uncomfortable
    *Blank tapers ... Tippy or too stiff ( what makes for a good light frog casting rod - often folds away when casting a typical HB or 110mm+ plastic & vice versa
    *Rod lengths .... Efficient casting spin sticks (usually 7 ft) dont make for good tools in the timber
    Overhanging trees 7ft rods & longer droppers are a pain.

    Now clearly you can work around all of these issues & put up with a little discomfort ....... but why should you
    Sure I can use a heavier bass spin outfit & catch barra...... or a stump puller to do the same
    I certainly could build my own spin stick that suits my fussy requirements....... & maybe I will - but I wont continue to use an outfit that does not feel right (I'm honest to myself) ....... & yes if Johnny handed me his charter special outfit - & it didn't feel the goods ..... I'll say it ( SteveB & I had this type of conversation yesterday after I had the use of his latest acquisition spin outfit over the past few days)
    To answer your question Lyndon - What I have seen in the way of off the shelf rods ( & what is often chosen) -leaves a lot to be desired (IMO) when it comes to barra ....... sure they will catch fish! ( I reckon if I could cast the buggers - I could catch barra on an alvey too ) How many spin outfits have I tried ..... I've probably held dozens & used another dozen outside of what I have owned.

    by comparison most people comment positively about my baitcast outfits ...... they not only do the job - they do it the way I want them too .

    Finally ..... I do think there is a trend toward spin rods ( how many people have added a spin rod to their arsenal since THE FISHING DVD #11 ..... how many used a spin rod for barra 3 years ago ?

    This is all good stuff & makes for a great discussion

    Chris






    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  11. #116

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    ..... how many used a spin rod for barra 3 years ago ?

    Chris





    Oooh, oooh, me, I did, I did, what do I win?


    And I have no bloody idea why you think you have to go to a 7' rod either.

  12. #117

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    The trend is in peoples' minds to realise the opportunity and place exists to own a spin outfit and use one for tasks suited to the question being asked in lakes. I don't think that trend is overtaking the scene at all. Many things have occurred in the southern barra scene that are new to many anglers, but are not to those with years of experience. The climb is huge, possibilities and new learnings will continue for years for most anglers who are new to the scene. It is impossible to do a thorough barra apprenticeship in under ten years without external help, even then, chapters get missed.
    Maybe you haven't spoken to yourself deep inside and realised what it is you really want, because basically what I have read of yours tells me what you want. I see enough information in your writings to conclude that you-
    * want a spin outfit that will cast further- your casting technique may need alignment also.
    * you have diagnosed the areas in rod design which are a help and a hinderance.
    * you have labeled yourself as a favour for baitcast, ergonomically, which will block your spin advancement in some way.
    * You probably won't find your desired tool on the shelf in store, so it is up to you to now build, or get built a rod to your apparent requirements. I have several rods built for purpose applications that no one else has- they suit our style, our need, our arm length. I'm sure you will do the same if you want to fill a few gaps and advance your fishing.
    If it's length you are after, I just threw 70 metres for self verification, on a school oval this morning with my lake spin tackle to give you some idea of what is achievable. With an Awoonga tail wind, I'd reckon 80 metres plus would be possible. (Tango- 20 lb braid.)
    I think you realise the answer to the questions earlier, so maybe it is time to work on bream tactics and apply that to an upscaled fishery. The trick is to discover what actually needs upscaling.
    I think the key in this discussion is to have a reel spool diameter that isn't too large that allows freedom of movement of line via the guides. A 3000 size is close to suitable for many lake applications.
    Johnny

  13. #118

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by aussiebasser View Post
    Oooh, oooh, me, I did, I did, what do I win?


    And I have no bloody idea why you think you have to go to a 7' rod either.
    No prize - Sorry AB

    7 ft is an efficient blank length when you consider the placement of the reel & ideal blank seat for punching out typical plastics ...... sure you can go shorter - no dramas! I used one over the weekend

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  14. #119

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE View Post
    The trend is in peoples' minds to realise the opportunity and place exists to own a spin outfit and use one for tasks suited to the question being asked in lakes. I don't think that trend is overtaking the scene at all. Many things have occurred in the southern barra scene that are new to many anglers, but are not to those with years of experience. The climb is huge, possibilities and new learnings will continue for years for most anglers who are new to the scene. It is impossible to do a thorough barra apprenticeship in under ten years without external help, even then, chapters get missed.
    Maybe you haven't spoken to yourself deep inside and realised what it is you really want, because basically what I have read of yours tells me what you want. I see enough information in your writings to conclude that you-
    * want a spin outfit that will cast further- your casting technique may need alignment also.
    * you have diagnosed the areas in rod design which are a help and a hinderance.
    * you have labeled yourself as a favour for baitcast, ergonomically, which will block your spin advancement in some way.
    * You probably won't find your desired tool on the shelf in store, so it is up to you to now build, or get built a rod to your apparent requirements. I have several rods built for purpose applications that no one else has- they suit our style, our need, our arm length. I'm sure you will do the same if you want to fill a few gaps and advance your fishing.
    If it's length you are after, I just threw 70 metres for self verification, on a school oval this morning with my lake spin tackle to give you some idea of what is achievable. With an Awoonga tail wind, I'd reckon 80 metres plus would be possible. (Tango- 20 lb braid.)
    I think you realise the answer to the questions earlier, so maybe it is time to work on bream tactics and apply that to an upscaled fishery. The trick is to discover what actually needs upscaling.
    I think the key in this discussion is to have a reel spool diameter that isn't too large that allows freedom of movement of line via the guides. A 3000 size is close to suitable for many lake applications.
    Johnny
    Totally agree on the 3000 size reel ( I have a Certate 3000) spool diameter needs to also be well matched with the stripper guide.
    Out of curiosity .....70M cast ..... did you do that from a stationary position & with a punch type cast ? or a longer drop of the leader & rounder wound up beach casting motion

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  15. #120

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    *One step forward, unloaded the rod just after transferring body weight to the front foot. The leader knots were all in the guides. The drop length was about 60cm. The rod was stationary behind me before I started.

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