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  1. #91

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradmaster View Post
    when working soft plastics with spin and baitcast i made the move to use left handed reels. putting the rod in my dominent right hand. the difference in retrieve control was very obvious. it felt wierd for a while but now i would never go back. the control gained also increased my strike rate on softies. with hard bodies i gain more control with rod in left hand.
    Seeing as we are going this way. Studies have indicated that our dominant hand is better at smaller, fine motor tasks tasks like knitting, computer typing, reel winding and perhaps even working a rod tip. Common sense really given that we always use our dominate side preferentially for smaller more finite tasks. However and this is the interesting thing is that gross motor/muscle strength has been shown to be greater in the non-dominant side. What does that mean? It means we have more strength and generally power on our non-dominant side.

    Put your previous prejudices aside and think what do I want to do with my rod??? Do I want to be able to react and hit the fish with everything I have got and therefore reduce my chance of missing strikes. Or should I give my self every chance of getting the strike in the first place.

    I guess you need to decide for yourself whether working a rod/lure is fine or gross motor task. I would venture to say that not all versions of fishing would produce the same answers.

    Further building on the earlier stuff regarding overuse injuries, the whole point towards injury prevention was mentioned in my earlier "technically anal" post (no offence taken Pete - everyone thinks differently in this world). For those that disregarded it, I have already mentioned how to reduce your chances/manage medial and lateral epicondylalgia (tennis and golfers elbow-figured someone would be impressed with the big words)

    Using the body in the strongest way possible = the most efficient, therefore less chance of insidious injuries. Common sense really...
    Scott

  2. #92

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Double post again sorry

  3. #93

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    Before I commented here , I just went down the local park armed with my barra threadline outfit & favourite barra baitcast outfit...... same leader length, line & 5" Tango dancer (hooks removed)
    Interestingly ..... I pretty well nailed my first cast with the spin rod (46 M) ..... but never improved on the distance averaging between 44-46M over 20 casts
    With the baitcast outfit ..... first few casts were around the 42-43M mark .... However this distance increased to 53M (Av 50-52M)

    now ... all this proves is that I can throw a baitcaster further than a threadline
    However I wonder if the notion of barra spin gear outperforming baitcast gear is just a misconception ( with the exception of very light presentations) .

    I'll be interested if others found the same

    Chris
    Hi Chris it's great to see you were the one that got off his ass and went out and trialled a few things (tinkering/thinking). Although i'm not sure if you have completely understood the others on here that have commented about spin setups as you shot things down pretty quickly (replies). Go back an re read Mitch's thread.


    Your baitcast setup looks to have good distance, well done. Can i ask how much $$$ your combo costs e.g. Rod, Reel, Braid and any other mods?


    I did the same casting test with a 10-12cm cheap popper (not sure what brand).
    The 7ft fleuger spin rod 3-6kg cast the popper with no hooks 56m.
    Lots of casts traveled over 50m fairly easiy on the footy oval.

    I step out marks daily for work. I stepped out 55m then measured it and it was 56m so pretty close. I had every 5m marked with cones from the 20m marker (Cricket Pitch) onwards right up to 55m with a mate out on the 50m mark to put a cone exactly on the mark where the lure landed.

    In simple thinking terms.

    If you stand on half way line of a footy oval with a decent spin outfit with only a $90 rod and a 3000 series spin outfit with 20lb line & 40lb leader or lighter (more of a light plastics setup) you should be able to cast from half way and hit the try line (score). (No Wind).

    *Note i didn' want to use max size leader with a lot of force which might snap something as i'm not sponsored and it's not worth snapping a guide or rod to prove anything on the net. I was confident i could snap something if i went close to 90-100% so i didn't. At 70-80% or your max force combined with a good setup should get you over 50m of casting distance. Obviously the heavier you go with leader and line the less distance you will get. I even had a 13 year old who's only been fishing 5 times cast over 40m straight up.

    Where is your current barra setup?

    As i get a bit more cash i'll be using all different lines and leader sizes to document distance gained or lost. The base will be what you did Chris and that is to use your exact Barra setup first, document it then tinker around for more control and easier distance. First the original setups need to be tested to see where they are really at as judging distance on the water is hard at times.

    Poppers will give max distance, but curved lures, bibs & trebbles will shorten things and add wind resistance etc. I predict many will end up in the low 40's with late arvo casts with bibbed lures with trebbles on them holding a lot of casts back in to the 30m ish zone.

    Upping the Ante

    If the setup is a bit better you should be able to hit the black dot at post height which will result in a 55+metre cast which i reckon anyone on a barra dam would be happy to achieve without the use of a surf rod. *Although distance is not alwasy needed in every fishing situation.

    Clarification: Yes distance isn't the be all and end all, but forming a base of stats to understand the gear you & i own could be usefull. That's part of what Mitch's post eluded to. Atleast you might work out for yourself that your current setup is shit, good or excellent at delivering lures. If it's a poor setup i reckon we won't here the stats on the net lol, but it will result in a few new rods or reel setups (thinking/tinkering) being bought or modified throughout the rest of the year (on the quiet). Watch next summers gear in your mates boats! See if anything has changed, even line etc.

    Some 5 foot to 6 foot snake killing rods with big barrel baitcasters stuck on them might be shown to be 10-15meters behind the game without the owners knowing this until now. Especially with 50lb line and 80lb leaders let alone poor technique, rods, reels or shoulder or elbow injuries.

    Whats Possible: I reckon a better spin setup than mine will hit 60m with the exact same protocols i used and good on you if you do, go for it, just make sure it's measured honestly i'll be the first to shake your hand. My setup is around mid range in price. $90 rod and approx $200 reel so it will be interesting to hear what the guys do with their $350-$$700 rods and $350-$800 reels when combined in a $1000+ combo. I'd love to hear of a $100 combo do well.
    Bring on the Alveys with 6-7ft rods not the 8-12 footers that wouldn't be fair.
    This thread has the potential for stretching the truth, but please be as accurate as possible.



    I've just read Scotts thread and i reckon to clarify what finesse or controll means maybe have a look at the Taylors or Mitchell on DVD as words don't seem to be getting through on the net at times. These clues have been on DVD for atleast 3 years or a thousand (1000)+ days now. They have even been screened for free on TV. Were they taken on board or missed for the next best thing. Did anyone change anything they do over the last 3 years because of these guys? Or was not 1 tip or 1 lesson learn't from some of the best over the last 1000 days? Food for thought hey?

    The Challenge

    I hope to be driving past ovals on the weekend seeing people casting from half way and i really hope to see line wrapped around the black dot of footy goal posts. This isn't a casting comp as you would have to have the exact same age rod, reel, line, leader, slug with all of us on the oval at the same time. It's just a tangible test we can all do ourselves to see where we and our gear is really at, as words are cheap on the net but actions soon will sort out the good gear/setups from the not so good and at the end of the day it should teach us something about our setups, more than words seem to do on the net.

    Most of all have fun guys. Cheers Lyndon.

  4. #94

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    A couple of years ago I started to develop golfer's/tennis elbow (cant remember which one) Sought out my chiropractor once it got bad and she had it sorted in a couple of visits and showed me the massage point to nip it in the bud. We didn't worry a preventative at that stage but I did start to alternate casting hands more often from then on. Problem solvered.

    Did a Chris and Lyndon tonight with one of my spin sticks, had a bit of an idea from some rough measurements before, just wanted to confirm them. Jarvis Walker Tuff Tip, about $50 worth with a Spinfisher 5500 and 100lb leader, as fished. Got 40 metres consistently. From that I know the 7ft ugly stik/Spinfisher would give me about 45 metres and the single handed uglystik baitcasted with the ABU would give not much motre than 30 metres.

    Not as far as you fellas but I'd reckon my average cast fishing would be only between 15 and 30 metres. 50 metres would put me clear across the other side of the river

  5. #95

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    To get really scientific and compare apples to apples I'll try to get hold of an S10 and put it up against the B10. Same line, leader and lure, so it should give an indication of what gets further. Then again, it will only prove it for the way I cast and the results really won't mean squat for anyone else. If you prefer to use baitcast gear, use it, if you prefer threadline, use that. There are only a very small minority of anglers who will judge you for what you prefer. It's a tiny minority actually and it doesn't really matter. Why don't we just measure something else to decide on the winner?

  6. #96

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Dick i reckon 40-45m casts with 100lb leader beats Chris and i hands down with our figures. I wonder how far a bc can cast 100lb leaders?

    I reckon with your gear that a 40-45m cast is better than what we have done with our lighter setups and i rate it better than a 55m-60m + cast. Lots of bang for your buck as well with your combo coming in well under the thousand dollar mark!

    I reckon you would only need casts that long over your way if you wanted to pepper the crocs on the opposite side of the bank

    Cheers Lyndon.

  7. #97

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Why don't we just measure something else to decide on the winner?
    I was speaking to someone about this the other day. Within reason, two ways to benchmark your gear and how you are able to use it would be - time it take to get a fish to the boat (not just a one of) and how your body pulls up from a full day on the job.

  8. #98

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    ........................

  9. #99

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by aussiebasser View Post
    To get really scientific and compare apples to apples I'll try to get hold of an S10 and put it up against the B10. Same line, leader and lure, so it should give an indication of what gets further. Then again, it will only prove it for the way I cast and the results really won't mean squat for anyone else. If you prefer to use baitcast gear, use it, if you prefer threadline, use that. There are only a very small minority of anglers who will judge you for what you prefer. It's a tiny minority actually and it doesn't really matter. Why don't we just measure something else to decide on the winner?

    Hi Dale it's not a comp mate that was never the intention. It's just a sure way to get some real figures instead of battling on here with words with no actions to back up the words.

    As distance is hard to judge on the water i really do think a lot of the guys i know actually don't know how far or short their lures are travelling. What if they are buying $400-$500+ rods that are getting matched by $100 outfits? I would want to know & we have a chance to all get together, share some info and help each other out with some data instead of us buying another 100 rods, making mistakes along the way that we didn't need to with some help from fellow Ausfishers.

    To get rid of conjecture (words on net) it was simple, just put up a task that needed action and some data so we didn't have to rely on opinion. Nothing wrong with that. That's all. To think it's a comp is nowhere near the reason for the suggestion, and i don't care if no other results are posted, but i am interested to learn how other peoples spin setups go as this is what the thread was set up for. To learn about spin setups.

    After meeting at the sweetwater m&g and agreeing not to hold the casting comp you know my views there as i get on well with a few of the same guys you get on with. Just learning something each day is comp enough for me.

    In fact hats off to Chris for atleast trying to quantify his work with some raw data, atleast it gets away from opinion. I predict as i get more injuries and older that my casting will lose over 10-15m and that's fine as i don't have any goals to cast more than everyone, already achieved what i wanted. At 60-70 years old casting high 30's to 40m will be more than fine with me while watching primary schoolers beat me


    UPDATE: Sorry Dale i thought you were asking me that question mate but you are not. No worries here, all good, have a great trip.

    Cheers Lyndon

  10. #100

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Dick i reckon 40-45m casts with 100lb leader beats Chris and i hands down with our figures. I wonder how far a bc can cast 100lb leaders?
    I'm not sure about that one yet Lyndon, been ruminating on why you all mention the leader as a critical component. Is that because your leader and knot is long enough to end up through the runners and maybe even onto the spool a tad. I ask because my leaders are nearly always less than a metre and sit beyond the tip, only the double knot touches a runner. ??????

  11. #101

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Dick, most I know use a standad rig down here in the sticks of a rod length of leader, generally 50 to 80, so additional friction thru the guides of leader and knot will shorten the cast lengths. Leader lengths tend to shorten up as the day goes on with lure changes, fish chafe etc. I was speaking to Trev one morning, and he mentioned shortening up the leader when using SP's on shy fish (as has been the case lately) in order to minimize stretch/delay time in registering a knock and angler reaction. Another other option here is fishing "down the line", again minimizing any delay time in registering some piscatorial interest at the business end.
    I gather that with a meter of so of leader and lure off your rod tip, your casting style is a bit pendulum in action, for lack of a better word, it would certainly give more length than a punch cast on a short hanging leader, but I'd be ducking for cover in my 4 meter tinny if my mate was doing that, and I reckon we would be spending a bit of time in the trees fishing for possums as well, the above water structue can be a bit daunting at times. In saying that, when Im hanging off the open points, I use a similar technique as yours, more free hanging leader ouside the guides.



  12. #102

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by SeekingBarradise View Post
    Dick i reckon 40-45m casts with 100lb leader beats Chris and i hands down with our figures. I wonder how far a bc can cast 100lb leaders?

    I reckon with your gear that a 40-45m cast is better than what we have done with our lighter setups and i rate it better than a 55m-60m + cast. Lots of bang for your buck as well with your combo coming in well under the thousand dollar mark!

    I reckon you would only need casts that long over your way if you wanted to pepper the crocs on the opposite side of the bank

    Cheers Lyndon.
    Hi Lyndon

    Firstly on the distance thingy comparison ........ The playing field was pretty level (excuse the pun) ..... both rods (BC =Samurai 451 + Daiwa HLC Zillion + 30lb Nitlon + 3ft , 80lb Tough trace leader $1050) & (Spin Daiwa Certate 3000 + Berkley Diablo 7ft 6-10kg + 20lb Diawa Sensor Tournament + 3 ft 80lb Tough trace $750) - Reels were spooled to around 80% of maximum (would have preferred 90%) These outfits could be used to blast out 130mm Slick rigs during a point / Bay casting session Which is the only time I'm looking to max out casts - generally ...... but they are fair dinkum barra set ups
    My casting style is quite compact - Developed while fishing for barra & not wanting to pin my mate while using a extra long dropper ( Its not surf casting )
    Lure of choice (Tango Dancer) is an aero dynamic lure ...... so I know my distances were maximum with only a 10knot cross wind at the time

    For the point of the exercise ..... I achieved what I set out to do & That was hand on heart - this is the best I can do ( & not a gestimate)

    Other points were that my accuracy with the BC was considerably better with a cross wind ......... I needed to drive my top hand (wrist) with the spin gear to flatten the trajectory ..... which then impeded the distance obtained (around 40M)

    Now I know I'm much more comfortable with a BC than spin rod ........ but I also know that a spin rod offers another string to the bow & so my pursuit will continue........... However at this stage particularly after yesterdays session in 20-25 knot winds at Mondy - The BC is still leaps & bounds ahead ( with the exception of ultralight presentations.)

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  13. #103

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Pasfield View Post
    I'm not sure about that one yet Lyndon, been ruminating on why you all mention the leader as a critical component. Is that because your leader and knot is long enough to end up through the runners and maybe even onto the spool a tad. I ask because my leaders are nearly always less than a metre and sit beyond the tip, only the double knot touches a runner. ??????
    Short leaders would be a godsend & I'd love to fish 1 ft leaders - The trouble is the with all the structure we fish with big rampaging barra ...... I want to know that when I free spool a fish that makes it to a tree ( usually where they stop & wait) I want that leader & not the line rubbing on that tree ( I only fish 30lb & even 20lb braid) ....... The exception woud be fishing a placcy / frog through weed where using a short leader & 20lb braid would assist the braid slicing through any weed on a run.

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  14. #104

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    pm sent to you



  15. #105

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Was generalising a bit with the leader length, for casting its under the metre, about 60cm. I'll chew it down a bit over the day and then replace it, I've noted however you chew through it much faster on plastics.

    Not cleaned up anyone in the boat, nor has my kids on the same rig, although they've got close at times and the possums don't hang in the canopy, the crocs gobbled them all up thinking they were fruit bats

    The shorter leader length I use seems to be fine in the timber, most is layed down in a river, following there seems a mite difficult, the idea is to keep them from going there in the first place by trickery or bludgeondry. One spot can be tough (depending on what the the wet season delivers in terms of timber) That spot I've trolled with about three to four metres of leader, its paid off a couple of times on big fish. this year that spot seems to be a little cleared, haven't used a big leader yet.

    Line is 20 -30lb fireline, perhaps a bit more abrasive resistance in that to others???

    Edit: just a clarification on the use of the extra long leader; the location is just down from the junction of two rivers. A lot of debris is deposited after the wet on the bottom that cant be seen from the surface. When a fish does a right angle turn there's a chance the line will get hung up on one of the many projections metres behind the fish. The extra leader length in these cases allows me to get on top and with the benefit of having the leader a couple of turns of the reel work harder on the timber to free the fish.

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