Spin Gear for barra

[Peter4]

Git typin Pete ..... love to hear more

Firstly let me say that I have not had much experience with baitcasters. My fishing life of over 40 years has always been around spin gear so, when I started chasing barra three years ago, I naturally looked at my spin options.

Secondly I am not as technically anal as you, Scott, Lyndon (no offence guys!) and many others. I go out to fish to enjoy myself and, as long as the gear is of good quality and works reasonably well, I am happy and any fish caught is a bonus!

After a few trials and tribulations I have now settled on three barra outfits.

They are:

1. 7' Egrell S10, Hyper Custom Certate 3000 spooled with 50lb castaway PE
2. 6'6" Berkley Dropshot, Shimano Saros 4000 with 30lb Tufline
3. 6' Berkley Dropshot, Penn Applause 4000 with 30lb Tufline

The weak link here is the Penn Applause reel which is on it's last legs and about to be replaced by a 3000 size Daiwa. Too many barra have destroyed this loyal but cheap friend...I agree though that a 3000 size reel is well suited to catching barra.

I use the Egrell mostly for throwing heavy plastics, surface popping and burning frogs. The dropshots are used to twitch hardbodies - usually the longer rod on points and weed edges and the short rod in amongst the timber.

All outfits have caught barra and all have handled them well - even when free spooling is required by throwing over the bail arm. Whether slow rolling plastics or twitching lures I am comfortable in using this gear all day.

Never worried too much about my stance or body position but accept that I will sometimes lose fish due to poor technique. So what? I love being on the water with my best mate (my son Kyle) and if we only get one fish between us on a trip, we are happy. While I love catching barra, I also get a buzz by being dusted by a big girl and I'm not too bothered by the ones I miss (unless I do something stupid - which I have!). This is why we keep coming back!

Like all anglers starting out we began with cheaper and perhaps inferior gear and have educated and updated our stuff over time. Kyle's favourite combo is now a 6'6" Berkley Dropshot matched with a Daiwa Heartland XA 3000.

Why no baitcasters? Simple, no-one has ever shown us how to use one! Seems like a hell of a lot of hard work and constant practice and I am far too lazy for that! I do own an Pfleuger Echelon on a Backbone Elite but this has ended up being a trolling rod for big flathead at the 'Pin.

Maybe you can have a go at coverting us at the Mondy Muster in Sept!

Regs

Pete & Kyle

[NAGG]

Nagg says-
Well , I'm still not convinced.
I keep hearing about all the advantages offered over baitcast gear ........ But I'm yet to really see / experience them - & certainly not enough to make me put down my favourite baitcasters.

Give it time Nagg, you can't expect to experience everything in the barra scene in your short time frame. Lots of people go the full circle with their thoughts, on many subjects. Experience teaches them new things, minds get changed, and the discussion goes round and round.
Light lures, windy lakes, varied cast angles, mixed angler skill, and balanced outfits will see many lighter lures cast further with less effort on spin gear. Try casting an ultra light lure into a 25 knotter on Awoonga with your bait caster. Small metal slugs get cast at tuna schools with spin outfits for max distance and speed. You don't see small baitcasters doing that job,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,line retrieval rate is greater on a suitable spin outfit for staying in contact with a fast paced barra; an area where tight lines win points. A baitcaster won't keep up. Spool diameter, handle size, ease of winding, and gearing sees that one an as an obvious advantage to the spin fisher. There are numerous advantages of spin over baitcast in lakes for barra, and vice versa of course for other fishing situations. Maximum cast distance on my boat is gained via spin tackle.
Each angler has preferences. A skilled angler will use an alvey to catch the same fish, without fuss on what is best or apparently better. An alvey angler may even wonder what the fuss talk is all about about baitcasters.
In my experience, finely tuned spin tackle in a lake is like the icing on the cake.
Cheers,
Johnny Mitchell

Hi Johnny

Sticking to barra applications

You cited many of the reasons why I added a spin outfit to my barra arsenal - particularly lighter presentations & wind affected situations.
No doubt .... the speed advantage could be useful under certain situations.

But for me ........ still no revelation ( wow I've seen the light - I'm switching to threadline moment) ...... for each of the benefits gained were often counteracted by a negative .

Chris

PS .... You talk of a highly tuned spin outfit ..... if you wouldn't mind , could you please explain such an outfit .......

[NAGG]

Firstly let me say that I have not had much experience with baitcasters. My fishing life of over 40 years has always been around spin gear so, when I started chasing barra three years ago, I naturally looked at my spin options.

Secondly I am not as technically anal as you, Scott, Lyndon (no offence guys!) and many others. I go out to fish to enjoy myself and, as long as the gear is of good quality and works reasonably well, I am happy and any fish caught is a bonus!

After a few trials and tribulations I have now settled on three barra outfits.

They are:

1. 7' Egrell S10, Hyper Custom Certate 3000 spooled with 50lb castaway PE
2. 6'6" Berkley Dropshot, Shimano Saros 4000 with 30lb Tufline
3. 6' Berkley Dropshot, Penn Applause 4000 with 30lb Tufline

The weak link here is the Penn Applause reel which is on it's last legs and about to be replaced by a 3000 size Daiwa. Too many barra have destroyed this loyal but cheap friend...I agree though that a 3000 size reel is well suited to catching barra.

I use the Egrell mostly for throwing heavy plastics, surface popping and burning frogs. The dropshots are used to twitch hardbodies - usually the longer rod on points and weed edges and the short rod in amongst the timber.

All outfits have caught barra and all have handled them well - even when free spooling is required by throwing over the bail arm. Whether slow rolling plastics or twitching lures I am comfortable in using this gear all day.

Never worried too much about my stance or body position but accept that I will sometimes lose fish due to poor technique. So what? I love being on the water with my best mate (my son Kyle) and if we only get one fish between us on a trip, we are happy. While I love catching barra, I also get a buzz by being dusted by a big girl and I'm not too bothered by the ones I miss (unless I do something stupid - which I have!). This is why we keep coming back!

Like all anglers starting out we began with cheaper and perhaps inferior gear and have educated and updated our stuff over time. Kyle's favourite combo is now a 6'6" Berkley Dropshot matched with a Daiwa Heartland XA 3000.

Why no baitcasters? Simple, no-one has ever shown us how to use one! Seems like a hell of a lot of hard work and constant practice and I am far too lazy for that! I do own an Pfleuger Echelon on a Backbone Elite but this has ended up being a trolling rod for big flathead at the 'Pin.

Maybe you can have a go at coverting us at the Mondy Muster in Sept!

Regs

Pete & Kyle

Thanks Pete

I wouldn't even try to convince you to change ......
I wouldn't even suggest that you need to learn how to use a baitcaster...... & I'm not here to say that anyone is wrong ...... or is there any notion of elitism , snobbery etc

I'm coming from a position of starting my barra fishing with baitcasters - developing my outfits to a point of satisfaction ......... Then adding spin gear into the equation to fill a void that was evident.
10 months down the line .... I'm still "oh hum" about the barra threadline gear I own & what I have used ...... sure ...It has its place - Usually in the rod locker

Chris

[Peter4]

Each to their own, mate, each to their own.....

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

Nagg,
A finely tuned spin outfit = An outfit where the reel's size matches the rod length and weight, along with the spool diameter matching the size and spacings of the guides. A careful selection of line diameter, weight and make/composition of the line that allows a smooth and fluent travel through the guides is an important mix, so too is a reel that is filled to the right height that allows the least possible friction on the spool lip when casting takes place. A rod that has a rear grip of reasonable length that allows an angler to impart energy from body to lure is essential to help attain maximun distances. A reel with fair gearing that when matched with spool size allows an angler to stay in touch with a fast fish that tracks towards an angler. (almost an everyday occurrence).
Also, A rod composition matched with correct line choice, mixed with a reel ratio that as a combined unit helps to amplify lure and line vibration to improve results is what I would call a finely tuned spin outfit.
There are some pretty poorly meshed outfits getting around that couldn't cast across a street, let alone allow for finesse, amplification, or accuracy to be attained.
Cheers,
Johnny Mitchell

[BR65]

Nagg,
A finely tuned spin outfit = An outfit where the reel's size matches the rod length and weight, along with the spool diameter matching the size and spacings of the guides. A careful selection of line diameter, weight and make/composition of the line that allows a smooth and fluent travel through the guides is an important mix, so too is a reel that is filled to the right height that allows the least possible friction on the spool lip when casting takes place. A rod that has a rear grip of reasonable length that allows an angler to impart energy from body to lure is essential to help attain maximun distances. A reel with fair gearing that when matched with spool size allows an angler to stay in touch with a fast fish that tracks towards an angler. (almost an everyday occurrence).
Also, A rod composition matched with correct line choice, mixed with a reel ratio that as a combined unit helps to amplify lure and line vibration to improve results is what I would call a finely tuned spin outfit.
There are some pretty poorly meshed outfits getting around that couldn't cast across a street, let alone allow for finesse, amplification, or accuracy to be attained.
Cheers,
Johnny Mitchell

yup, that about sums up the definition of a balanced/tuned outfit

[NAGG]

Nagg,
A finely tuned spin outfit = An outfit where the reel's size matches the rod length and weight, along with the spool diameter matching the size and spacings of the guides. A careful selection of line diameter, weight and make/composition of the line that allows a smooth and fluent travel through the guides is an important mix, so too is a reel that is filled to the right height that allows the least possible friction on the spool lip when casting takes place. A rod that has a rear grip of reasonable length that allows an angler to impart energy from body to lure is essential to help attain maximun distances. A reel with fair gearing that when matched with spool size allows an angler to stay in touch with a fast fish that tracks towards an angler. (almost an everyday occurrence).
Also, A rod composition matched with correct line choice, mixed with a reel ratio that as a combined unit helps to amplify lure and line vibration to improve results is what I would call a finely tuned spin outfit.
There are some pretty poorly meshed outfits getting around that couldn't cast across a street, let alone allow for finesse, amplification, or accuracy to be attained.
Cheers,
Johnny Mitchell

Thanks Johnny

Can you quote an example ?

Chris

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

Yea, home turned rods to suit the individual's body design, and reel choice.

[NAGG]

Yea, home turned rods to suit the individual's body design, and reel choice.

Now , how many people have rods designed & built to their own body design , casting style , reel of choice , line diameter , lure weight etc etc etc - very few I would imagine (unless they build their own sticks) .

I actually doubt if many would completely understand the concept of what makes a well designed spin rod.,,,,, let alone - if starting from a scratch ( choosing a blank).



Chris

[darylive]

Hi Andrew ...... Like you I now carry a spin stick , though I have tried 4 (light to heavy matched with either a Daiwa Caldia 2500 or Certate 3000 .... settled in the middle) & I'm still not really happy .
So its just not a case of perception either ....... I feel much more connected to the baitcast outfit ( particularly low profiles)

So the spin outfit usually just ends up with a lightly weighted frog on it & is cast when the situation arises

Chris

And the problem is?

Cant argue with you Lyndon on the hammer grip when retrieving & striking .

I do change hands at the completion of my cast ( natural left hander who swings right handed)

My retrieving / striking grip consists of the thumb on top of the reel & the pistol grip trigger between the 3rd & 4th finger - - Its a much stronger position than a standard hammer grip.

All good stuff

Chris

Only left handers are in their right mind you know

Both have their place. An angler can generally achieve a greater distance with a threadline. As for accuracy, both can be mastered. If you ever saw one of Harro's casting demos you'd see that he had complete control over both. The ultimate casting tool for accuracy over a short distance is still a fly rod.

Fly? Yes Harro is a freak, a wizard when casting. A rod in Harro's hands is a wand.

Scott ..... I would love to see it put into practice & see what difference it really makes.
I certainly can see the advantages in other forms of fishing ... ie Jigging in particular & its why threadline reels are quickly proving the tackle of choice.
Unfortunately ..... I'm yet to be fatigued from catching barra

Chris

A great thread and a great approach to the debate gents in fact I don't think it is a debate but interactive discussion among those keen to share and learn. All good. And a lot of stuff that most of us don't think about but possible makes sense if we were to. A friendly joust perhaps with jousting sticks in hand.

I am off for my Pizza and Red wine but will be back!
Jousting sticks .. What does he want for 'em?

[NAGG]

Ahhh .... Its all good Daryl

No jousting - just sharing of experiences & ideas

lots to learn , places to go & barra to catch

Chris

[Dick Pasfield]

10 months down the line .... I'm still "oh hum" about the barra threadline gear I own & what I have used ...... sure ...It has its place - Usually in the rod locker

Just a suggestion, necessity being the mother of invention and innovation leave the baitcasters at home and use only your spin stick for your next trip out. It may be that all you need is to spend some time with it in your hand rather than in the locker. Not saying either is better overall or trying to convert but it may help to answer your own questions in the best way possible

Either way it'll add to the challenge of your next trip.

[wheezer]

I actually doubt if many would completely understand the concept of what makes a well designed spin rod.,,,,, let alone - if starting from a scratch ( choosing a blank).



Chris

that's where custom rod builders such as myself come in

[darylive]

Nagg,
A finely tuned spin outfit = An outfit where the reel's size matches the rod length and weight, along with the spool diameter matching the size and spacings of the guides. A careful selection of line diameter, weight and make/composition of the line that allows a smooth and fluent travel through the guides is an important mix, so too is a reel that is filled to the right height that allows the least possible friction on the spool lip when casting takes place. A rod that has a rear grip of reasonable length that allows an angler to impart energy from body to lure is essential to help attain maximun distances. A reel with fair gearing that when matched with spool size allows an angler to stay in touch with a fast fish that tracks towards an angler. (almost an everyday occurrence).
Also, A rod composition matched with correct line choice, mixed with a reel ratio that as a combined unit helps to amplify lure and line vibration to improve results is what I would call a finely tuned spin outfit.
There are some pretty poorly meshed outfits getting around that couldn't cast across a street, let alone allow for finesse, amplification, or accuracy to be attained.
Cheers,
Johnny Mitchell

Well said Johnny, now what will we pay for this perfect outfit?
Never mind the fashion.
Seriously what is a realistic cost.

Regards Daryl

[Steve B]

Finally got around to reading this thread. great thread Chris.

Being a predominantly Monduran angler, I have always stuck with the baitcaster, tuned to suit the way I fish....I have had no trouble casting as far as any of the 3 or 4 basic spin setups that have been through and not mastered or enjoyed. WIth that, they would be put back in the rack and not brought out until I would go bait soaking in the salt.....or casting for tuna.....Which got me thinking....these rods are for salt water styles, either jigging, baitfishing or casting chrome slugs.

(the following is not an add!!..seriously)

The next bit refers to getting quality rod and outfit no matter what brand it is, and as Johnny said, having it balanced appropriately....then actually concentrating on LEARNING how to use it properly, as Lyndon and Scott explained. This is my story.

I forget that when it comes to spin for barra...I am a total NEWBIE....I have to start at basics which is a total culture (and ego) shock for me

I spoke with Eric Grell, and told him, 'I just cant use a spin for barra'..... When it comes to bass, thats all I use and I love them...why cant I master the heavier versions??

I played with a few Egrells and worked out the particular rod that felt right with the majority of the range of lures that I wanted to cast.....I REALLY do want to get keen on spin...I know the benefits in retrieves, strikes etc etc that spin provides from years of bass. I mean, many of the anglers that I look up to have mastered spin, and really produce the goods to back up their claims, aims, and techniques.

back on the water, After about 10 casts, I was casting further and more comfortable than previously...wow this aint to bad....Eric explained a few more things regarding energy and the deliverance of energy though the fishing rod to improve casting......Too hard to explain....but in a nutshell, if you have ever swung a golf stick, hit a cricket ball, or served a tennis ball, rythmn and timing is everything,.....the old saying 'big swing...no ding' applys to casting too. This is my basic fundamental which I put into practice now with fishing more consiously....Johnny, Lyndon and Scott can no doubt add 20x the physics to what I have basically explained.

Essentially I am hooked on spin now BECAUSE I HAVE THE RIGHT GEAR, AND WENT BACK TO BASICS...only thing is improvement from here I see. I am being more 'selective' as to instances for long casting spin.....essentially a place like monduran requires constant back and forth changes depending on structure and areas worked, where as Awoonga, to me, has an higher benefit to spin with open points bays and a s$%t load more wind!!

Now, my last piece (slighty off the topic) goes with losing fish for me lately....I am going to go against the latest concepts getting a round suggesting 'strike and strike hard'.....I have reprogramed myself to do this in the last year, and found I am failing big time....I will no longer strike a HB lure, or one with trebbles. I will let the fish weight do the work on plastics, with only minimal rod pressure......Like I used to do successfully......WHY?? firstly because it worked, secondly....well, anatomy and pysiology of the fish will explain the rest.

Once again, great topic chris, and great info from everyone.

Cheers Steve