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  1. #16

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by Plasticin View Post
    I’m not 100% sure as too what you are trying to say mate so I won’t comment however the position of the wrist is what the “hammer grip” is all about not the position of the fingers. As Lyndon has alluded to the "hammer" grip (thumb facing the sky for those that haven't been in the lifting game) is the strongest anatomical position. Its kind of hard to explain why it’s the strongest position without going into too much detail here but basically the muscles that cross the elbow and influence the position of the wrist(palm facing up or down) and hence grip strength are at their strongest when the thumb is facing the sky.

    Lyndon has the run’s on the board although he probably won’t tell you but he has done extensive strength work with some of Australian’s top professional athletes. He will be the first to tell you that sport is all about adjusting the athletes body to allow for the strongest position to be attained. Why not adopt this into your fishing practices? I can tell you now that I have never fished with someone who hits a fish as successfully and hard as what Lyndon does. Just ask the fish in Manton Dam (Darwin) on Friday. It is a rare occasion that a fish throws the hook with Lyndon fighting them.

    Getting back to spin v b/c another complex to understand is the optimum length tension relationship between muscles. The wrist flexors, which also contribute to finger flexion are at their strongest between 15 and 30 degrees of wrist extension. Sound complex? Well its not really grab a tennis racquet or screwdriver and squeeze it as hard as you can. Notice how your bodies first instinct is to extend your wrist. Have a look at your elbow position as well and think about how we can apply these settings to fishing. I know that a baitcaster does not allow this position in fact we are in the opposite, wrist flexion. Our body innately knows our strongest positions and tries to replicate them in all situations, why don’t we let it?

    So what does all this result in when fishing with a b/c?

    A b/c shortens the position of the wrist flexors and in turn decreases your grip strength making it the weakest link in the chain, not something you want. Don’t’ believe me? Everyone who has muscled up on a decent fish knows that the first part to fatigue is in your forearm. How bout next time you turn the b/c so that the handle faces the floor and you are fighting the fish with the guides on the side of the rod? Have a look at your wrist position now? Spin stick? Try working your lures like this, I guarantee that hopping larger plastics is exponentially easier in this position.

    Now that times are changing and we recognise that it is not necessary all the time to muscle fish why do we need to adapt the “strongest approach”. Basically using the strongest position will help prevent muscle soreness, soft tissue injuries (overuse) and I believe, most importantly, allow you to work your lure with the most control over the long days that we all fish. Stronger and more dexterous wrist positions will also let us have more control over the rod hence further contributing to working our lures more effectively.

    On another topic some interesting research has come out regarding the use of dominant and non-dominant sides in relation to control and fine motor activities. This will influence which rod we should have our hand in. But that is another topic for another time.

    Not trying to "big wig" myself though it may sound like it, but in depth discussion with Lyndon regarding this stuff shows up some real common misconceptions regarding the "strongest" way to fight fish. The worst thing is that the current fishing media seems to think that they know what is best even though they have zero idea about what they are talking about. Sorry it’s a sore point. If we can use the bodies anatomical quirks to our advantage then we can help to stop sore arms/shoulders, work lures the way we want to for longer and hopefully contribute to more enjoyable trips in the future. Happy to explain it round a campfire one time but you bring the beers.

    Scott
    Scott ..... I would love to see it put into practice & see what difference it really makes.
    I certainly can see the advantages in other forms of fishing ... ie Jigging in particular & its why threadline reels are quickly proving the tackle of choice.
    Unfortunately ..... I'm yet to be fatigued from catching barra

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  2. #17

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    HI Nagg, I have taken numerous people out that have asked to be taken home as they couldn't possibly pull in another barra as they were worn out. This is rare though, more often they are worn out from too much casting with very little reward. I personally haven't reached a point where I was too worn out to pull in another barra, I find the adrenalin keeps me going, but as soon as the barra stop biting then the fatigue sets in fast.
    Hello Lyndon, I wouldn't mind being pointed in the right direction next time you're up. My casting action just relies on muscling lures out as far as possible, results in a sore back and more nurofen consumed.

    cheers scott.

  3. #18

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    regarding your casting comparo's chris that does not suprise me. with threadlines you are always fighting the friction generated by the spiralling line contacting the guides. a baitcaster with a good cast control correctly tuned should outperform spin in terms of distance with the kind of lure weights used for barra

    i find my grip when palming a BC is basically identical to when i'm holding my spin outfit

  4. #19

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by wheezer View Post
    regarding your casting comparo's chris that does not suprise me. with threadlines you are always fighting the friction generated by the spiralling line contacting the guides. a baitcaster with a good cast control correctly tuned should outperform spin in terms of distance with the kind of lure weights used for barra

    i find my grip when palming a BC is basically identical to when i'm holding my spin outfit
    Thats what I felt Andrew..... but wanted to prove it to myself , throwing a typical barra sized lure ( be it a quite aerodynamic one) under the same conditions. Both outfits were suited to casting the chosen lure too ..... so it was not a case of favouring one over the other.

    In the end ...... I do see a place for spin gear in barra fishing ..... but in my case , it will remain a novelty for specialised situations - rather than mainstream tackle.

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  5. #20

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    Scott ..... I would love to see it put into practice & see what difference it really makes.
    I certainly can see the advantages in other forms of fishing ... ie Jigging in particular & its why threadline reels are quickly proving the tackle of choice.
    Unfortunately ..... I'm yet to be fatigued from catching barra

    Chris
    Chris I think you have missed the point mate.

    Re reading it I apologise if it seems that I have tried to "show off" was not my intention at all, its just something that Lyndon and I have put a lot of thought into and thought it may help.

    A passionate subject is something easy to talk about.

  6. #21

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    A passionate subject is something easy to talk about.
    An excellent post Scott. I think you'll find there was a quite a few that gobbled that info up then went straight to their rods and tested your words out.

    Not showing off, just showing is the way see it

  7. #22

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    I am comfortable using both. You will normally hear me harping on about spin tackle but that is more for bass. For impoundment barra i do generally use bc tackle. I do however preffer spin casting tackle in situations where i want to lay into a cast and not have to worry about birds nests.

  8. #23

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy87 View Post
    I do however preffer spin casting tackle in situations where i want to lay into a cast and not have to worry about birds nests.
    everyone has their preferencces, a correctly tuned baitcaster should see very little birdsnest trouble. i prefer to use BC when night fishing as with spin the dreaded wind knot can rear its ugly head, hard to notice in the dark sometimes unless its a biggun

  9. #24

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by Plasticin View Post
    Chris I think you have missed the point mate.

    Re reading it I apologise if it seems that I have tried to "show off" was not my intention at all, its just something that Lyndon and I have put a lot of thought into and thought it may help.

    A passionate subject is something easy to talk about.
    I'm a simple person
    but I do see where you are coming from with regard to bio mechanics. ..... certainly with regard to striking ...
    But how much of an improvement will you gain when compared with someone who employs good technique with baitcast gear - (For barra) Where you have a fish that is running & jumping ..... running amok around the timber. I certainly think the baitcaster wins in this situation ..... particularly in the ability to quickly freespool without loosing pressure - plus the added manoeuvrability of the BC outfit in tight situations.

    Nothing wrong with being passionate in what you believe in ...... I certainly look forward to seeing your ideas first hand

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  10. #25

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    Before I commented here , I just went down the local park armed with my barra threadline outfit & favourite barra baitcast outfit...... same leader length, line & 5" Tango dancer (hooks removed)
    Interestingly ..... I pretty well nailed my first cast with the spin rod (46 M) ..... but never improved on the distance averaging between 44-46M over 20 casts
    With the baitcast outfit ..... first few casts were around the 42-43M mark .... However this distance increased to 53M (Av 50-52M)

    now ... all this proves is that I can throw a baitcaster further than a threadline
    However I wonder if the notion of barra spin gear outperforming baitcast gear is just a misconception ( with the exception of very light presentations) .

    I'll be interested if others found the same

    Chris
    Yes this might just prove what i said in my first thread. You have tinkered a lot with your bc rod and reel setup over the years for barra but not nearly as much for spin with the ideal rod and reel setup. The cast length look good so you should be happy Chris so you must have a pretty good bc setup. I noticed Locky at Awoonga casting miles with those REVO's i was even surprised crikey!



    Deeper into the equation

    Scenario: Have you ever noticed a few guys on here hook a lot of fish with 3 trebbles hanging off lures but they always seem to miss more than 4 fish in a session after a few seconds or after the fish takes a couple of runs. No leader breakdowns or failed knots just missed fish. You have watched them fish and so have i. Did you notice a couple of areas they could improve in? Everyone can improve, especially me.

    Before i go any further i can improve in a stack of areas and that's tinkering which is great fun in a hobby/sport called Barra Fishn. It's about the best sport you can get. I'm no guru, just adding my bit to try and help if that's ok.



    The net: It depends on what everyone is on here for. If it's a chat and not much in the way of learning then lost fish don't matter i guess, although on 800-1000km round trips they would hurt a bit. Whatever you are on here for is cool.


    Learning

    If people are on here to learn then the serial missed fish guys must have missed Johnny Mitchells/Harro's rod and reel advice which was printed most years dating back over 1000 days now (Harro's decades ago). Good info hopefully not skipped for the next best soft plastic.

    Then there was the foot and body position and hand and rod position then JM's rod and reel setup and the list goes on. In my opinion this is exactly the area a hell of a lot of us need to improve in, myself included, i'm still tinkering there. Chris must have listened as his results last year were good, and he is on a roll this year as well.

    Good Thread: Chris your topic branches in to the others above so i don't think i'm off track here. Better setups will hopefully help us catch more fish in certain situations. Enter spin in to the equation. Like Dale said they both have their day and Harro is a master of both, let alone fly casting better than most throw spin gear. Dick fishes wild territory and uses both in different situations etc.


    Basics

    It's the base level mistakes before a cast is even made that in my opinion lead to huge problems by the time we get to reacting to fish strikes. Most equations stop there without the fish being landed, that's it don't pass go and don't collect $200 but collect your free No Fish Lure pack. We have all been there.

    The point of this thread is to help that's all, as i've had mates on here help me in lots of areas i've needed to improve (still working on lots). To help a mate out if you were beside me on a boat i'd hate to see anyone pushing sht up hill with poor positions, setups which results in lost fish every trip, i'd hate to see that. What i'd say is " Mate have you ever tinkered with this position, technique, give it a go and see what you think?"

    "Then give it a go on every trip to get used to it and do a full trial as it might just help you strike, hook and land more fish". Especially for those of us that don't fish like Mitchell, Harro and the Taylors so we need all the help we can give each other. After all isn't that the Aussie way.

    Cheers Lyndon.

  11. #26

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    OK then....I would also love to know what people are using out there as far as spin rods go for barra?Also what people think makes a good barra spin rod?
    I bet we cant go the whole thread without saying the Sword.


    Toddy

  12. #27

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Good work Lyndon ...... you picked up on this being a baited thread

    I 'm really interested in the current trend to move away from baitcasters & over to spin gear .......... particularly that there is not a lot of spin rods available that are designed for barra ( most are long snapper rods that have been adapted to the role) ....... which is OK for frogs or rolling slick rigs etc - but they are usually much too tippy for say twitching HBs ( tips fold away too much for my liking ...... & must affect a hook set) This makes a good topic on its own .... What is an ideal spin set up ??????

    So how many are making the change under the notion that it is easier to use threadline gear - without considering the downside

    I have put a fair effort into coming up with my ideal BC set up ( a progression that has taken 3 years) ..... now I have an outfit that is light ,comfortable, casts well & can handle a wide spread of lure weights with relative ease) - Very happy .

    You are right Lyndon ...... Technique is important ( so where do people go wrong ?)

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  13. #28

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Do you want some input from a barra fisho (& son) who's arsenals comprises only of spin gear??

    Pete

  14. #29

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter4 View Post
    Do you want some input from a barra fisho (& son) who's arsenals comprises only of spin gear??

    Pete
    Git typin Pete ..... love to hear more

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  15. #30

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Nagg says-
    Well , I'm still not convinced.
    I keep hearing about all the advantages offered over baitcast gear ........ But I'm yet to really see / experience them - & certainly not enough to make me put down my favourite baitcasters.

    Give it time Nagg, you can't expect to experience everything in the barra scene in your short time frame. Lots of people go the full circle with their thoughts, on many subjects. Experience teaches them new things, minds get changed, and the discussion goes round and round.
    Light lures, windy lakes, varied cast angles, mixed angler skill, and balanced outfits will see many lighter lures cast further with less effort on spin gear. Try casting an ultra light lure into a 25 knotter on Awoonga with your bait caster. Small metal slugs get cast at tuna schools with spin outfits for max distance and speed. You don't see small baitcasters doing that job,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,line retrieval rate is greater on a suitable spin outfit for staying in contact with a fast paced barra; an area where tight lines win points. A baitcaster won't keep up. Spool diameter, handle size, ease of winding, and gearing sees that one an as an obvious advantage to the spin fisher. There are numerous advantages of spin over baitcast in lakes for barra, and vice versa of course for other fishing situations. Maximum cast distance on my boat is gained via spin tackle.
    Each angler has preferences. A skilled angler will use an alvey to catch the same fish, without fuss on what is best or apparently better. An alvey angler may even wonder what the fuss talk is all about about baitcasters.
    In my experience, finely tuned spin tackle in a lake is like the icing on the cake.
    Cheers,
    Johnny Mitchell

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