Spin Gear for barra

[darylive]

To say we are just oval casting is way off the mark,

For the record i've had beers several times with Chris, Daryl, Steve, Nath, Whitto and many of the guys on this thread so there is on stress at all between us. We will be having having plenty more fishing trips together and some healthy debate around the campfire hopefully.

Cheers Lyndon.

I RESEMBLE THAT REMARK!

As I said in discussion with those mentioned I recall spending days in the back yard before graduating to the street when I first started with a baitcaster. There is plenty to be learned from the paddock or beach for that matter.

I have to confess spending time in the yard again casting into a bucket after attending shows where Harro is demonstrating his tricks .

As it turns out I was in the market for a new outfit (who isn't) when this fired up. I think Chris and I put reasonably bait casters in the Barra boats at about the same time (that frog DVD). I am happy with it for that purpose and do use it for the long toss of light presentations but still go the baitcaster otherwise.

But hey i still like my old millionaire .

[NAGG]

Talking to Steve B and Nathan (Tropical Trout) on the phone this week and they have both loved this thread and like me learn't a few things. JM has been out working on things as well so there you go this thread has been a success for all levels no matter what your budget.

Some of us wanted a tangible e.g. actual figures on the oval to see what our gear can do so we don't just have opinion in this thread that's all. It wasn't a comp ok. Then we hit the water chasing lots of different species of fish several times this week. Not all of us have been on the sofa all week.

To say we are just oval casting is way off the mark, in fact one guy is doing double sessions a day on barra for the next 14 days using stuff from this thread.
He and his mates will do more sessions of barra fishing than any impoundment guide in the state in the next couple of weeks.

And another used this helpfull info all over North Queensland and the Northern Territory for several months of fishing. Oval casting was still a usefull part of this equation as it quickly sorted things out in a blunt factual manner.

Ausfish is not Twitter or Facebook.

It's a fishing site, so to limit thinking on a fishing thread (Spin) defeats the puprose of having a fishing web site. If you are a person that doesn't like, or want to learn more, just go to a chat thread. If your learning is maxed out then join facebook or twitter. But don't road block learning.

For the record i've had beers several times with Chris, Daryle, Steve, Nath, Whitto and many of the guys on this thread so there is on stress at all between us. We will be having having plenty more fishing trips together and some healthy debate around the campfire hopefully.

Cheers Lyndon.

Well said Lyndon
& certainly no casting comp from my perspective ...... just a case of putting out a fair dinkum casting comparison between outfits that I carry ....... including the leaders ( I learnt a bit in the hour or so spent on the oval ...... some good , some not so )
Next it might be accuracy over 20M ....... Infact I will do that

As the discussion goes on more & more useful information will come to light

The one important thing is that its not about back slapping , peeing in someones pocket & or saying nothing .........& Its certainly not a mutual admiration society

[Dick Pasfield]

I'm sure Scott and Lyndon would be able to answer/provide input into this, others may also have some knowledge -

When we talk about putting power into a cast, I suspect we're actually talking about speed i.e. fast contraction of the various arm/shoulder muscles. The faster the contraction the more the rod loads, the further the cast goes. Hence flick casts can go surprisingly far considering the limited arm movement because the movement is fast.

If that's the case we'd be relying on our fast twitch muscles in our arms for casting. If so a training regime to keep them cherry ripe, or better, to improve them would be significantly different to building the slow twitch muscles.

Would this be a fair call, if so what would make a reasonable generic program considering the gear that is usually used?

[SeekingBarradise]

I'm sure Scott and Lyndon would be able to answer/provide input into this, others may also have some knowledge -

When we talk about putting power into a cast, I suspect we're actually talking about speed i.e. fast contraction of the various arm/shoulder muscles. The faster the contraction the more the rod loads, the further the cast goes. Hence flick casts can go surprisingly far considering the limited arm movement because the movement is fast.

If that's the case we'd be relying on our fast twitch muscles in our arms for casting. If so a training regime to keep them cherry ripe, or better, to improve them would be significantly different to building the slow twitch muscles.

Would this be a fair call, if so what would make a reasonable generic program considering the gear that is usually used?

Limitations or Opportunities


This is how i'd say things around a campfire with you guys. Hopefully we are allowed to talk about sport around the campfire?

A lifetime of casting will result in wear and tear on wrists, elbows, shoulders and backs. Ease of casting will go a long way towards having a more enjoyable time on the water over a lifetime of fun fishing.

That's why this thread is a ripper.

You are right Dick, however to talk about this topic is stepping on rare ground as it's heading towards fishing being an organised sport in regards to really having a look at strengths and weakness etc like all organised sports. Way too many threads concentrate only on what happens on the water. I don't know if many people in fishing are ready for this as i feel a lot of resistance in this area, yet everyone wants to be good or better so it doesn't make sense when we step back and have a look at the bigger picture?


E.G. You only have to look at Tiger Wood's training to explain exactly what you
mean as he crunches a golf ball 350m then has the touch to nail puts from 30ft or 6ft on super fast greens then chip in from the bunker. He started early and at the age of 4 could concentrate for hours on end watching his old man practise. At the start some of his training practises were criticised.

I saw people complaining about the way he looked just last week. These guys didn't get it that it's because of the difference in look that lets him do things many of his competitors can't, becasue he is not the same as them. I think he would be happy with his results even if he retired at 30 years young Maybe he was the kick in the ass some parts of golf needed as he didn't do everything the same as everyone else.


From Different to Mainstream in less than a decade

Now many have copied his training routines, yep the ones that were criticised as they might just have been before their time. It took a good thrashing or 100 thrashings for some to get the message to sink in. As he kept going away from the field the demand for those that provide what he has grew.
In fishing if we fish the same place with the same people maybe we don't get the thrashings we need at times to make us wake up and see where we really are in other company. I think the taylor brothers in tournaments are showing what is possible at a young age and guides are showing what is possible with first time clients.


Another Sport To Think About

Watch what a guy does to serve over 220km/hr or watch a kid serve 200km/hr.. Stand behind them, side on then down the other end to really appreciate what is possible. Then stand outside the net and watch a world number 1 (Or junior) shape the ball through the air and off the court at 200km/hr and you will be amazed at what is possible from small changes in wrist/arm and body position. (Amazing stuff).

Why should fishing be any different? However these guys started at primary school, then high school with 3 sessions a day to get there, that's 3 sessions of organised work with coaches like Pat Rafters watching every ball. Fishing is way off this mark, hence the basic level arguements that bog down learning at times.

Open Minded

In fishing like golf there is resistance to training or physical performance. Many still want to believe you need to down a carton of beer each night followed by 10 family size pizza's to get the best performance in any sport. But injuries and limited capabilities when there are millions of dollars on the line soon turn around most of the sceptics but not all. I think this might be part of the battle on this thread. Yes some have gotten away with out of this world talent but they will have huge health problems in the second half of life and nobody wishes that on anyone. (Surgery)

I didn't go down this track as people that have slow twitch, poor flexibility or technique might not ever be able to match others at casting no matter how expensive the gear or if they have they have done 50 years more fishing and casting than kids or social fisho's.

Performance

E.g. some people in a group will always be the quickest, others will have the best endurance and others sharp reflexes. At the moment i am finding the younger fella's have some advantages here as they haven't tightened up or gone down the road of 50 000 casts using bad habits etc. They have usually just completed the most active part of their life at school with sport etc. Many of the young fella's are more open to listening, experimenting and learning. If you don't believe me i'll just add that the taylor brothers have found this thread interesting.
Even a guide has found this thread interesting. I think most of us could learn a lot from this thread. I have it's been a great thread.

To Share Or To Battle

Personally I have found that the hardest ages to talk to are usually males between late 30's and 50's with a lot not wanting to even remotely hear that what they are doing could be improved. Many are set in their ways etc.(*Exceptions). But i find the old fella's get efficient at expending less energy to get what they want. A balance in between i reckon is the perfect setup. But this is only achieved if we are open minded.


Cheers Lyndon.

[SeekingBarradise]

Have a look the good old World Series Cricketers and how they do and don't move when chasing a ball and throwing etc.

See if you notice any differences to todays cricketers?
Any improvements?
Any differences in shape?
Ask yourself why you think these changes came about?
What is limiting their performance?

This is relevant as they have throwing and bowling actions.

I know the era's are different and i completely respect that, but the footage will get my point across better than words can as it's visual footage.

If you went back in time and suggested that smoking in the lunch time break wasn't the best idea or drinking every night after the days play wasn't really that good for your they would laugh. Then if you told them to do todays training methods the players, coaches and staff would all laugh at you while they were thinking you are crazy because it was new and they hadn't heard of these so called new methods. However today it's mainstream and change has arrived.
I think this might have some crossovers to this thread and fishing in general.



Daryle at times casting in the back yard is the first time kids see the fun that can be had over a lifetime of fishing. I had some little tackers on the weekend saying " Do it again " after casting in the back yard and it wasn't long before they wanted to try it for themselves.

Chris i reckon most have probably already had a go at the accuracy thing as it's easier to do in the back yard compared to going to an oval for long casting. Dead right to mention it as we have concentrated on the opposite.

Hodgie would have to be up there hitting lighters at 20 paces i think.
The guys that do those fish tank casting shows have won casting comps several times as well.

Cheers Lyndon.

[darylive]

As I have said before anyone who has not gained something from this thread is not really interested.
Thanks again to all those who have contributed constructively .

Lyndon are you coming to somerset mate?

I reckon we set up a casting challenge. Employing both distance and accuracy, we get you at one end of the oval and Chris at the other end casting at each other . Maybe even leave the hooks on to make it more interesting .

Looking forward to getting together boys for a few casts and a few quite ones after around the fire of knowledge; with a cold bevvie and hot camp oven .

Having discussed length and style how do you rate a long slow cast as against a quick flick / punch out?

Comparing not only distance and accuracy but impact on the fisherman after a day of casting? I know we are essentially lure focused but it is a real issue with bait. Some times the quick flick sees the bait cast much further than the hook etc.

[SeekingBarradise]

Double post

[SeekingBarradise]

If i'm casting at Chris i'll be bringing the pilchards and a few Mullet


The Muster: No mate i'm booked to do other types of fishing that weekend so have a good time, all of you.


With the quick flick i get a few knotts in the guides at times which was expected. Anyone else found this? This only happens up near maximum speeds. Smoother delivery has been fine.


If others have found things out about their casting it would be good to hear from you now?

Cheers Lyndon.

[NAGG]

[

quote=darylive;1045847]camp oven .

Having discussed length and style how do you rate a long slow cast as against a quick flick / punch out?

Comparing not only distance and accuracy but impact on the fisherman after a day of casting? I know we are essentially lure focused but it is a real issue with bait. Some times the quick flick sees the bait cast much further than the hook etc.

[/QUOTE]

Hi Daryl

I had a good chance to play with different casting techniques ........ but the reality is , I'm on a boat & even stepping forward to transfer the weight is not practical. Neither is casting with a long drop & rotating the hips ( bound to catch something or someone )
To answer your question ......... a good punch cast was around 10M short of my best weight transfer cast ( the accuracy was garbage with the big cast) ....... so for me ... its a punch cast

Chris

[NAGG]

Yesterday ..... I had problems with wind knots when I really layed into a cast (1st cast was a mess)
Less of a problem when I backed off a tad ( & cut out those wind knots - lower line load)

I was also using bionic braid which is pretty soft & not round in profile

Chris

[NAGG]

If i'm casting at Chris i'll be bringing the pilchards and a few Mullet


Cheers Lyndon.

Silly boy ........ lead slugs would be my choice

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

*Just a note on casting and endurance. Sometimes I cast the lure for clients, especially the elderly. One trip- I spent 4 days with an ageing couple. I would stand between them and cast each lure as it came back to the boat. The meaning of all of this is that I cast twice as much in the typical time frame than I normally would if fishing alone. Double effort for 4 days. By day 4, I could not keep up the work load; I was shagged. The body ached, so I suppose it does show that increasing the work load of casting can result in exhaustion. Even with what I thought was a simple job, the end result was draining, so it does ring true that effeciency in casting technique will help an angler, even during a short shift on a barra lake. Technique is everything. Fitness and conditioning, well that is another chapter, as I discovered.
Cheers,
Johnny Mitch

[Big_Ren]

The body ached, so I suppose it does show that increasing the work load of casting can result in exhaustion. Even with what I thought was a simple job, the end result was draining, so it does ring true that effeciency in casting technique will help an angler, even during a short shift on a barra lake. Technique is everything. Fitness and conditioning, well that is another chapter, as I discovered.
Cheers,
Johnny Mitch

Bit like holding a little glass of water in your hand for an hour JM....gets a tad heavy after a while.

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

,,,,,,,,yea Paul, but surprisingly, a beer can or a rum can weighs the same forever, no fatigue involved.

[mylestom]

Well as JM as said the effort is different for each person. Spin gear for me, seating and fighting fish from the seat.

You will learn to adjust to what suit you as an individual, no hard and fast rules.

Tennis elbows, one arm or just getting older. Enjoy your fishing. Find what you can personally manage, and go with that.

There are no better system for all anglers, by all means try all the systems, but be happy that you are fishing and doing the best that you can.

Regards


Trev