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  1. #1

    Exclamation Spin Gear for barra

    Well , I'm still not convinced.
    I keep hearing about all the advantages offered over baitcast gear ........ but I'm yet to really see / experience them - & certainly not enough to make me put down my favourite baitcasters.

    With the exception of burning frogs ..... My baitcasters still rule the roost ( ease of use , comfort & ergonomics )

    The features of a spin stick that makes for a good casting rod (handle & rod length) detract from the ability to work the outfit (IMHO) ..... I certainly wouldn't want to be hopping plastics or twitching HBs all day with a spin outfit .


    I know I'll be shouted down from great heights over my opinion ....... Thats OK

    Cheers

    Chris

    PS ... Yes .... If I was taking a novice barra fishing ..... I'd hand them my spin outfit
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  2. #2

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    while for sure my BC quiver (4) far outweighs my spin outfits (1 going on 2) for impoundment i never leave my spin gear at home now. besides frogs i quite like working HB's on my shorter 6'6" spin outfit, just as comfortable as using my BC gear. for me BC's are still preferred though, lighter and better balanced plus any situation requiring accurate placement of a lure BC reigns supreme!

  3. #3

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    For nigh on twenty years I've used a mixture of both up here and the same mix elsewhere for near as long (before that it was hand lines).

    One system is my right hand, one is my left. There's as much chance of dropping using one of those as there is of fishing with one arm tied behind my back.

    Which is better generally, none really. Specifically, been so long I've forgotten. What feels right at the time, or is closer at hand.


    (Just don't lose a stroke when you change hands)

  4. #4

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by wheezer View Post
    while for sure my BC quiver (4) far outweighs my spin outfits (1 going on 2) for impoundment i never leave my spin gear at home now. besides frogs i quite like working HB's on my shorter 6'6" spin outfit, just as comfortable as using my BC gear. for me BC's are still preferred though, lighter and better balanced plus any situation requiring accurate placement of a lure BC reigns supreme!
    Hi Andrew ...... Like you I now carry a spin stick , though I have tried 4 (light to heavy matched with either a Daiwa Caldia 2500 or Certate 3000 .... settled in the middle) & I'm still not really happy .
    So its just not a case of perception either ....... I feel much more connected to the baitcast outfit ( particularly low profiles)

    So the spin outfit usually just ends up with a lightly weighted frog on it & is cast when the situation arises

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  5. #5

  6. #6

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Hi Chris it sounds like you have a big training base with Bait Casters which would have you feeling comfy with a BC in your hands as muscle memory is familiar with this over thousands of hours etc.

    This doesnt make what we are all currently doing as being the bee all and end all of technique, positions, setups and so on as fishing is one of the only sports where we pretty much totally self judge instead of having others judge us like all other organised sports. In fact some of the worst positions for striking and fighting fish appears on many american bass presentations. A few in the tournament scene think everything american is better than aussie tactics but there are a few good things going on over here as well. It needs to be noted for the sake of not getting in arguements that there are stacks of good developments in the U.S that we can use out here. Make your own mind up on the positions you see.

    Self judgement for many of us is like a doc prescribing their own meds at times. Another chapter there.

    A different angle (body/arm/hands) may feel awkward if less than 1% of your time is spent with a spin setup. If you are right handed try writing left handed for a day!!! In some sports tallies of over half a million reps have been recorded with people still improving. Some have been well in to the millions.

    But if they are in the wrong positions (shit training) a hundred million reps won't see them improve so the adage of time on the water doesn't ring true for many. It would be like training for a footy game after drinking a carton of beer etc, where would this get you in 20 years? e.g. not everyone you see driving will be the next Craig Lowndes.

    Try changing a goal kickers runup or kicking position and watch their successful percentages fall at the start but after they have enough time to adapt they can make improvements and be better than they were in the beginning. I remember you telling me you didnt' feel comfy casting your spin setup. You might have hundreds of hours on Barra Bait casters but only a few hours on Barra Spin Gear so there is a lot of opportunity there for you to run with.

    It might just be that you have many setups to get your ideal BC setup, so you might need to go out and buy more spin gear, now there is a good excuse to get to the tackle shop. If time was divided 50/50 between spin and BC i bet you will be a spinning machine, so you will need to plan more barra trips to do this.

    One question i would ask: Is your rod a snake killing stick or a delivery tool?

    Note: Do we need rods for barra that can lift tuna on board like Dean Lukin? This might be one of the problems people are having with their spin setup.

    Happy days i reckon. Have fun experimenting because at the end of the day it's tinkering then fishing which is a fun sport/hobby to be a part of.

    Cheers Lyndon.

  7. #7

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by SeekingBarradise View Post
    Hi Chris it sounds like you have a big training base with Bait Casters which would have you feeling comfy with a BC in your hands as muscle memory is familiar with this over thousands of hours etc.

    This doesnt make what we are all currently doing as being the bee all and end all of technique, positions, setups and so on as fishing is one of the only sports where we pretty much totally self judge instead of having others judge us like all other organised sports. Self judgement for many of us is like a doc prescribing their own meds at times. Another chapter there.

    A different angle (body/arm/hands) may feel awkward if less than 1% of your time is spent with a spin setup. In some sports tallies of over half a million reps have been recorded with people still improving. Some have been well in to the millions.

    But if they are in the wrong positions or training less than perfect a hundred million reps won't see them improve so the adage of time on the water doesn't ring true for many. It would be like training for a footy game after drinking a carton of beer etc, where would this get you in 20 years?

    Try changing a goal kickers runup or kicking position and watch their successful percentages fall at the start but after they have enough time to adapt they can make improvements and be better than they were in the beginning. I remember you telling me you didnt' feel comfy casting your spin setup.

    It might just be that you have many setups to get your ideal BC setup, so you might need to go out and buy more spin gear, now there is a good excuse to get to the tackle shop. If time was divided 50/50 between spin and BC i bet you will be a spinning machine, so you will need to plan more barra trips to do this.

    Happy days i reckon. Have fun experimenting because at the end of the day it's tinkering then fishing which is a fun sport/hobby to be a part of.

    Cheers Lyndon.
    Hi Lyndon

    I do agree with you to some extent. ( like having golf lessons - my game went to crap ... before seeing the improvement!

    A couple things go against your thought !
    *I've only been double handed baitcasting for the last 9 months - so this is a total change from my round arm casting technique / position when using single handed.
    *I'm an ex rock fisho where I did use HSS gear for pelagics (many 10s of thousand casts) - Longer rods & heavier slugs though..... & casting from an elevated position
    * I still use spin gear ..... but they are single handed.


    Aside from the comfort ..... I still don't like the rod angles & wrist position when working a lure - (cocked down rather than the neutral position of a baitcaster) - But thats just my opinion

    Thanks for your input Lyndon

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  8. #8

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Chris thanks for the update. All good with the rock casting for a base.

    I disagree with you regarding hand position. Most peoples baitcaster setup is weaker than a spin setup where the lifting comes from a neutral hammer grip in the strike position with a spin setup. In fact in the position i see most people using a baitcaster it's actually only half as strong as the same grip in a spin setup. With the line above the rod more twisting force is placed on the rod which adds stability problems for the angler compared to the hammer grip on spin with the line under the rod. I'll show you when we catchup next and you will see your own bodies limitations and lack of stability and co-ordination in a particular position.

    A real smart guy in this area is Plasticin on here (Scotty), but the answers will be long and complex so best left for face to face demo's etc. He has actual tests completed proving lack of strength in positions.

    Too complex to explain in words when the average person on the net won't read 2 pages let alone 2 paragraphs mate, visuals are needed here but many didn't register the foot position let alone hand position and body so this might best be left for face to face etc.

    Cast double handed then and see how much extra control and strength you get.
    I'm still amazed how a double handed backhand feels compared to a single and i don't play a lot of tennis. One handed golf swings compared to double handed swings offer a lot more control etc. Thanks for your thoughts and debate.

    Cheers Lyndon.

  9. #9

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Cant argue with you Lyndon on the hammer grip when retrieving & striking .

    I do change hands at the completion of my cast ( natural left hander who swings right handed)

    My retrieving / striking grip consists of the thumb on top of the reel & the pistol grip trigger between the 3rd & 4th finger - - Its a much stronger position than a standard hammer grip.

    All good stuff

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  10. #10

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    I like my bait casters.



  11. #11

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by BR65 View Post
    I like my bait casters.
    & I like your baitcasters too

    chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  12. #12

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    important to hold a baitcaster correctly ie palming as nagg describes. reason companies spend so much time developing shapes and contours of reels is for palming comfort. i remember as a little'un trying to palm my very first BC, the trusty ole abu 6500, difficult at best. todays new age of low pros invite you to securely and comfortably palm them, allowing for an incredibly stable and secure grip of the rod/reel.

    too many fisho's i see holding a BC by the rear grip ie casting position while fishing. trying to put pressure on a rampaging barra is far more tiring on the angler, not to mention long casting sessions supporting the weight of the reel out in front of the hand

  13. #13

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Both have their place. An angler can generally achieve a greater distance with a threadline. As for accuracy, both can be mastered. If you ever saw one of Harro's casting demos you'd see that he had complete control over both. The ultimate casting tool for accuracy over a short distance is still a fly rod.

  14. #14

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    Cant argue with you Lyndon on the hammer grip when retrieving & striking .

    I do change hands at the completion of my cast ( natural left hander who swings right handed)

    My retrieving / striking grip consists of the thumb on top of the reel & the pistol grip trigger between the 3rd & 4th finger - - Its a much stronger position than a standard hammer grip.

    All good stuff

    Chris
    Iím not 100% sure as too what you are trying to say mate so I wonít comment however the position of the wrist is what the ďhammer gripĒ is all about not the position of the fingers. As Lyndon has alluded to the "hammer" grip (thumb facing the sky for those that haven't been in the lifting game) is the strongest anatomical position. Its kind of hard to explain why itís the strongest position without going into too much detail here but basically the muscles that cross the elbow and influence the position of the wrist(palm facing up or down) and hence grip strength are at their strongest when the thumb is facing the sky.

    Lyndon has the runís on the board although he probably wonít tell you but he has done extensive strength work with some of Australianís top professional athletes. He will be the first to tell you that sport is all about adjusting the athletes body to allow for the strongest position to be attained. Why not adopt this into your fishing practices? I can tell you now that I have never fished with someone who hits a fish as successfully and hard as what Lyndon does. Just ask the fish in Manton Dam (Darwin) on Friday. It is a rare occasion that a fish throws the hook with Lyndon fighting them.

    Getting back to spin v b/c another complex to understand is the optimum length tension relationship between muscles. The wrist flexors, which also contribute to finger flexion are at their strongest between 15 and 30 degrees of wrist extension. Sound complex? Well its not really grab a tennis racquet or screwdriver and squeeze it as hard as you can. Notice how your bodies first instinct is to extend your wrist. Have a look at your elbow position as well and think about how we can apply these settings to fishing. I know that a baitcaster does not allow this position in fact we are in the opposite, wrist flexion. Our body innately knows our strongest positions and tries to replicate them in all situations, why donít we let it?

    So what does all this result in when fishing with a b/c?

    A b/c shortens the position of the wrist flexors and in turn decreases your grip strength making it the weakest link in the chain, not something you want. Donítí believe me? Everyone who has muscled up on a decent fish knows that the first part to fatigue is in your forearm. How bout next time you turn the b/c so that the handle faces the floor and you are fighting the fish with the guides on the side of the rod? Have a look at your wrist position now? Spin stick? Try working your lures like this, I guarantee that hopping larger plastics is exponentially easier in this position.

    Now that times are changing and we recognise that it is not necessary all the time to muscle fish why do we need to adapt the ďstrongest approachĒ. Basically using the strongest position will help prevent muscle soreness, soft tissue injuries (overuse) and I believe, most importantly, allow you to work your lure with the most control over the long days that we all fish. Stronger and more dexterous wrist positions will also let us have more control over the rod hence further contributing to working our lures more effectively.

    On another topic some interesting research has come out regarding the use of dominant and non-dominant sides in relation to control and fine motor activities. This will influence which rod we should have our hand in. But that is another topic for another time.

    Not trying to "big wig" myself though it may sound like it, but in depth discussion with Lyndon regarding this stuff shows up some real common misconceptions regarding the "strongest" way to fight fish. The worst thing is that the current fishing media seems to think that they know what is best even though they have zero idea about what they are talking about. Sorry itís a sore point. If we can use the bodies anatomical quirks to our advantage then we can help to stop sore arms/shoulders, work lures the way we want to for longer and hopefully contribute to more enjoyable trips in the future. Happy to explain it round a campfire one time but you bring the beers.

    Scott

  15. #15

    Re: Spin Gear for barra

    Quote Originally Posted by aussiebasser View Post
    Both have their place. An angler can generally achieve a greater distance with a threadline. As for accuracy, both can be mastered. If you ever saw one of Harro's casting demos you'd see that he had complete control over both. The ultimate casting tool for accuracy over a short distance is still a fly rod.
    Before I commented here , I just went down the local park armed with my barra threadline outfit & favourite barra baitcast outfit...... same leader length, line & 5" Tango dancer (hooks removed)
    Interestingly ..... I pretty well nailed my first cast with the spin rod (46 M) ..... but never improved on the distance averaging between 44-46M over 20 casts
    With the baitcast outfit ..... first few casts were around the 42-43M mark .... However this distance increased to 53M (Av 50-52M)

    now ... all this proves is that I can throw a baitcaster further than a threadline
    However I wonder if the notion of barra spin gear outperforming baitcast gear is just a misconception ( with the exception of very light presentations) .

    I'll be interested if others found the same

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

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