Reply With QuoteGood to hear, I have always hated that they can hunt protected species because it is 'tradition' but they run around in motor boats killing as many as they want.
From the Courier Mail:
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/s...2-3102,00.html
Peter Michael
June 27, 2009 12:00am
ABORIGINAL elder Eddie Deemal wants an end to the "sham" of traditional hunting. And he is not alone.
"If they want to hunt dugong or turtle, they must do it by spear from a canoe," the 83-year-old said. "That is the traditional way."
For centuries his people have lived off the rich bounty of the Coral Sea – hunting fish, turtles, crabs, rays and dugong – by the coloured sands of Cape Bedford.
Mr Deemal still hunts the traditional way himself. Silhouetted by the rising sun, the old man, cradling his bamboo fishing spears, strikes a timeless pose.
Every morning he wades kilometres through knee-deep water over the white sand bars in front of his Elim Beach home scanning for whiting, mud crabs and barramundi.
He boasts he once speared a 55kg barra in the shallows, heavier than his own body weight, taking hours to wrestle the mighty fish to shore.
"That fish, he fed my family for a month," he said.
The Deedar tribesman, custodian of the sea country north of Cooktown, is among a growing band of indigenous leaders who believe traditional hunting is excessive and unsustainable.
The elder said he was sick of seeing dead turtles and dugong piled high on the beach, barely touched for the precious meat, shot by "outside blackfellas" with rifles from power boats.
"It's a sham. It's time for a ban. Or there will be nothing left for future generations," Mr Deemal said.
Mass killings of as many as 15 dugong at a time, all of them riddled with bullets from speedboats, have been reported in recent years north of Cooktown.
Some elders are calling for a system where they decide who can take turtle and dugong and punishment for those who abuse the right with traditional spearings, fines and jail time.
Eastern Kuku Yalanji elder Bennett Walker has a tribal card identification system to stop outsiders preying on his tribal waters off the world heritage-listed Daintree.
Kuku Yalanji men, out of about 5000 tribal members, have self-imposed hunting regulations, are allowed to use only traditional hunting weapons, and restrict takes to one animal.
Peter Guivarra, of Mapoon, north of Weipa, is among those who believe traditional hunting is out of control.
The western Cape leader says magpie geese flocks are now a fraction of what they were because of indiscriminate killing.
In the Torres Strait, killing a dugong or turtle is part of the rite of passage to manhood for teenage boys.
South of the Torres Strait, the Girringun people of the Cardwell area and the Woppaburra people of the Keppel islands have banned the hunting of dugong and restrict turtle catches in agreements with the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority.
The latest concern comes amid rumours of a blackmarket trade in dugong and turtle flesh, a highly prized delicacy, in Cairns and Kuranda.
Good to hear, I have always hated that they can hunt protected species because it is 'tradition' but they run around in motor boats killing as many as they want.
same goes for the japs with their "traditional" whaling. i've got no problems with them whaling if they do it using a sharp stick and a rowboat.
My family and I spent a week living with Uncle Eddie at his land at Cape Bedford. He is a statesman and a legend - among white fellas. Unfortunately his own people shun him because he isn't afraid to tell it how it is and chastise the Hopevale drunks for being what they are.
What he taught me I'll never forget. What he taught our kids I'll never forget. Watching an 80 year old bloke brain a crayfish underwater with a spear from 30 odd foot away is something to be seen to be believed. And then there's his fish catching dog.......
He's the real deal with the right answers - just running out of time for his people to listen.
I'll throw a spanner in the works
What constitues "Traditional fishing" ???
With progress surley indiginous people have the rite to modern technology ?
If not, why ?
Damo
Using new technology is legitimate in their "traditional fishing" in the same way as it is to ours. We have used these methods as long as they have. It muddies the waters.Originally Posted by Black_Rat
I'll throw a spanner in the works
What constitues "Traditional fishing" ???
With progress surley indiginous people have the rite to modern technology ?
If not, why ?
Damo
The grim reality is that Aborigines should be striving to gain credibility, if that's what they want. By going out hunting Dugong with chain guns, they are just p!ssing everyone else off. They constantly demand respect from us, but then undermine the basis for that respect.
I've spent time with Blackfellas in the bush, and love 'em to death. Until the "take them for everything they've got" ones learn that no one, but NO ONE is going to fix their issues except themselves, they will not improve.
Sadly,
Tim
Carbon Really Ain't Pollution.
i agree with you to a point damo, and i think in most instances there is no issue with the use of modern methods/equipment. but when the traditional hunting extends into protected species i reckon that traditional methods must be employed to preserve the future stocks of that resource.
for example motoring up to a dugong and nailing it with the .303 takes a lot less effort than chasing the bugger around in a canoe and trying to hit it with a spear. as a result you cant catch as many and the numbers of a species will be maintained because only the traditional hunters are killing them and only in the same manner as they have killed them for thousands of years.
These blokes aren't killing for food, they're just shooting them and leaving them there.
Eddie says they do the same thing when a particular type of pidgeon flys down from PNG to breed at the Cape.
Local boys get drunk and use them for skeet shooting practise.
Its not our culture they offend most, it's their own, and I say let the elders deal with it like they used to. Traditional law is a hell of a lot harder than ours..........
they really need to have a good look in there own back yard
Daz
Sounds like an awesome individual black, white or otherwise............
Being a Weipa local for many years I have witness some horror stories. Local guys hunting Dugongs in the Pine River with high powered riffles if they are killed when shot they sink to the bottom then they are hooked with the anchor to recover them some are not found only to float up a few days later rotten. Is there no laws to stop this?? They are big slow animals and can be speared easily enough and if they MUST be taken this should be the only way allowed.
Another thing Turtles are slaughted alive they are placed on the backs with their flippers flapping in a desperate attempt to escape the bottom of the shell is cut off, like a big bowl their shell floods with blood as the turtle watches it's self being carved up. I understand that if they are killed they release a toxin into their meat. Surly someone can find away around this. Cutting up alive creature is cruel doesn't matter who you are and this shouldn't be happening these days. Up in the Torres Strait Turtles are caught in numbers left on thier backs on the beach in the sun for days on end until their time is up..... Not good.
Issue... Well can we see some stats apart from what Deemal has to say... And yes, the Kuku Yulanji tribal card identification system could work as a monitory measure, however I know there are dusty murris (not descending from KY) out there who have these salty cards so in a sense this indigenous initiated self determining system is still not working just like the Australian Government in an amusing comparison who have given the rights to any Indigenous recreational fisherman - a free for all, since December 2008, check this site link - http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/extra/pdf...ng-Dec2008.pdf (Ammendment to the Fisheries Act 1994). The supposed traditional hunting and i'll include adding the black market trade (which is historically / currently a majority non-indigenous rort than anything in the Cape) to compare against the mainstrem entirity out there with recreational boats and better still, licenced commercial vessels ripping the country apart is minimal... The corrupt and system abusing obviously need to be quashed, especially in the area of these endangered /protected species. So where does all that fish go that doesn't get sold at Woolworths, Coles etc... I tell you what, now that is excessive even if it is by the book! Everyday fishing, every week fishing, each person taking their share bla bla bla... it is still wreaking havoc on populations of fish, we all know this, but know one is going to stop are they? it is a great past time/sport, call it what you want. I would like to say relax however with the ammended as per the above link, it all seems a little contradictory. Anyway, I eat what I catch and the murri fullas I know who use traditional methods always eat what they catch - even the ones that catch 'undersize' or off season species. Don't tell me that anyone that caught a Barra a few days after close season in November is going to throw it back! I sure as hell won't - but I'll eat it, that's what I go fishing for... but hey I'm aboriginal so I guess I can prove this point. I travel throughout the Cape weekly from location to location with my work (and the odd fishing venture) - I have heard it all... Lastly, yes traditions can and are evolving, whether influenced by colonisation or not,,, so if going back to a canoe which seems to be a smart *ss suggested solution, then maybe DPI and Fisheries should chase them in their sailing boats too. Oh btw, GBC - what has Hopevale drunks got to do with the topic? the drunk and sorry stories for the Indigenous race seem to be brought up by the white fullas just as much and way too often doesn't it... Maybe you should get a history lesson and understand the many socio-economical issues faced by your country's first owners...
Just found your post Walker - thanks for that.
Not being a smartarse mate - I personally believe native fishing rights should not necessarily be in any way related to what tools are used, rifle, spear, net whatever. A feed's a feed. It just shits me that the animals are being wasted - left to rot, and from your post I'm guessing you agree.
As for the 'Hopevale drunks' line - Uncle Eddie's words Walker, not mine. No gamon.
When I was up the straits the Sue Is. boys got a turtle and nothing was wasted. Just wish I had the guts to try some, because I probably won't get the chance again.
I'd genuinely like to hear the murri view on how the 'sport' killing should be dealt with. Like I said in my first post I'm all for traditional law and values.
Just read the DPI link you put up and I reckon its pretty fair - what do you think?
C.J.
Last edited by GBC; 29-07-2009 at 04:20 PM. Reason: spelling
Coming from Africa, this sounds soooooo familiar!!!
I'll throw a spanner in the works
What constitues "Traditional fishing" ???
With progress surley indiginous people have the rite to modern technology ?
If not, why ?
Damo
Damo,
My view, and I repeat this is my personal opinion to your questions are as follows:
Traditional is using methods that they have always used or may have developped. To me this means that in the case of dugongs and turtles, by canoe and spear. I would refute that the aboriginal would have developped aluminium without white settlement of Australia given that the still had not developped metal wepons before that.
Yes they have a right to progress and the use of aluminium boats, fishing gear, rifles etc etc, no question, but within the laws and rules that all Australians must abide by. This traditional hunting is not confined to protected species, I may be wrong, but I understand that here in SEQ that the Stradbroke Islanders have the right to traditionally catch mackeral etc around flat rock, an area where all fishing is banned to "protect" the grey nurse shark.
Australia and all Australians have deemed these animals to be endangered and have also supported the aboriginal right to retain their culture and hunt traditionally not the right to wholesale slaughter and wastage. To extend the use of aluminium boats, outboards and rifles to "traditional" uses is an abuse of these rights. I fail to see how hunting a dugong, which is really a sitting duck, from an outboard powered tinnie with a rifle helps to retain the culture and teach youngsters the ways and cultures of their elders, and surely that is the reason to retain traditions and traditional ways.
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