Battery recomendations please

[oldboot]

As with many things there are people who know and people who don't want to know or fail to understand ...... then there are people who know the truth and don't tell it.

combine that with the various grasp that the variety of manufacturers have on a specific technology.

Take Sonnenschein..... they have been manufacturing true gell bassed batteries for a very long time....they have a variety of patents over various parts of their process and construction.....they make some very nice batteries.... they are now owned by exide and their technology is in 2 other exide brands

If they say...... this particular battery is safe to run on its side providing these specific conditions are met.......and they do.......I would believe them.


BUT and a very big BUT....that does not apply to all their batteries nor anybody elses..... and......you need to take specific care that those conditions are met.

On one of their pages that give specific advice about a specific gell battery application....they then qualify that and say that this does not apply to other brands and models....they should be treated as normal flodded acid batteries.

Not all batteries are built the same, in fact there is a great varability in how they are built........and it isnt the big chunky facts that matter it is the small details.

for instance the precence of a glass mat between the plates does not make thet battery an "Absorbed Glass Matt" battery.

In general terms most people refeer to (seemingly) "sealed lead acid batteries" as "Gell Cells" when in fact the vast majority are not.

The people at sonnenschein had a big "to do" with a local (in US) supplier of "imported", "badged" batteries. This bloke was selling his batteries as "gell batteries" till a marine incident that was badly reported dished some dirt on Gell batteries. He then started selling his batteries as AGM and throwing mud at Gell.....His batteries were unchanged..so what were they... were they gell, were they true AGM or were they just Valve Regulated Lead Acid like so many others.

If you want an eye opener have a look at the " Bruce" files on the "sonnenschein" page.

There is a great deal of misinformation, misunderstanding and simple failure to read enough of the manufacturers documentation.

So a salesman reads the front page of the sales spiel which says you can run these in any position......but does not read all the qualifying conditions.
Then applies the good information from one manufacturer and assumes that it applies to all batteries claiming that technology.

For instance the "Fullriver" batteries seem to be a well priced and reputable AGM battery.....but they make about 8 different products which one are we looking at.

Truth to tell, My knoweledge is limited... but I do know enough to know..I need to look at the manufacturers documantation before drawing any conclusions.

And remember the manufacturers will all spiel up their technology and not draw attention to its disadvantages.

The AGM zellots will bang on about how wonderfull AGM is ( and it is a good technology) but they will not draw attention to ist problems or drawbacks......like price and.....thermal runaway (dont let these things get hot).

And remember not all batteries claiming to be "AGM" will perform as well as the brand leader.

While lead acid battery is quite old and simple....there is enough significant small detail to make this beyond the grasp of the average salesman.

cheers

[FNQCairns]

For anyone interested and it might help smooth the road for someone in their battery choice later-I have done some ringing around and this is it so far.

CENTURY Overlander, Z70ZZl4wd, calcium/antimony battery, 24kg,700cca, reserve 170minutes, 2 year warranty

I rang the century tech line to see if they could defend another brand salesman advice that this battery will cook early up here in hot conditions, tech said that's crap and that usually its the cheap imported brand sellers of made for the northern hemisphere battery's that say things like that

I also pressed for an amp hour rating because I noticed other brands of the same type of battery have it listed so after he considered an answer might make me go away came back with 100 to 110amp hour. $125 at super cheap.

SUPERCHARGE, allrounder MRV70L, calcium battery, 1yr warranty, 26.2kg, 760cca, reserve 160, $250

EXRIDER range, 720cca, 80amp hour, 2 year warranty, 20kg, calcium, $210.00

That's as far as I have got so far, anyone want to have a stab at which i should consider based on the specs V price V expected longevity of the 3 brands/types?

Does the Exrider have specs that punch hard for such little weight like they do because it's possibly a dedicated calcium battery, not sure if is some license taken with those specs

Those prices seem high because of the lack of competition up here.

Swaying toward the Century atm.

Next I will ring the heavey equipment brands and 4wd mobs.

cheers fnq

[darrmun]

"see your'e local caterpillar dealr " as so many of our training videos use to say
hastings deering is in cairns
there are 4 possibilities part # 1535656 $146 650cca
3t5760 $213 750cca
1754370 $178 825cca start & deep cycle
1754360 $183 710cca deep cycle & star
the last 2 are both 100 amphrs all prices are + gst , have 12mth replacement & 6 year pro rata
ph # 131228
i'm in brisy parts dept if you need any more help
regards darryn

[darrmun]

almost forgot another fairly popular 1 which is 2306368 @ $ 167 + 880cca & 80 amp hr , this one is a squat battery ( 191mm high to top of terminal ) have these in my boat , have 2x 1754360 in little boat , & 1535656 & 3t5760 in our landcruisers , hope this helps
regards darryn

[oldboot]

One thing that realy frustrates me is the scant specifications available on automotive batteries.

Apart from the obvious size weight and voltage they only seem to be interested in quoting CCA and possibley the hokus pokus "reserve capacity".

I am yet to see an Amp Hour capacity at discharge rate table or graph......but that would tell you too much usefull information.

from the "reserve capacity" working out to about 70 AH at 3 hour rate 100 to 120 AH at 20 hour rate seems reasonable.

the supercharge seems to crank harder but not have as good slow discharge capacity.

the exrider.....make in korea.....if its too light to be true it problay is.....it seems to be marketed as an SUV battery .

EXRIDER are not made or associated with EXIDE they are made by ATLASBX

have you looked at EXIDE and BOSCH

The specs too are one thing.....are the batteries surviving... that is the question.

supercharge ... from the marine catalogues semm to be a competivly priced battery... it occurs to me that this price may not be all that good for the battery in question.

unless you want to go for one of the earthmoving / minning batteries the century is looking good...... you could buy 2 of those ans still be ahead... at least then when one dies you have a second

Now here is a hard question......What is the difference between your marine battery and your 4wd battery.... no BS, sales hype, guesses or company line stuff now, lets talk specifics?
See how far you get asking that one.

It occurs to me that the marine stores like bias would put a competitive edge into the equasion.




cheers

cheers

[FNQCairns]

Thanks all for the help.

Darryn those Cat battery's are a bargain! thanks! just goes to show the slush built into domestic sales. Sadly the only one that will fit my standard spot is the 5656 and it is a straight crank battery, but after this fitting from now on the Cats be my first choice for all other applications in the future.

Thanks Oldboot for the summation, I hadn't thought of Bosch and the Excide was my last bettery that shorted out too young so they are going to be skipped until I forget about that drama.

I am cooked now on battery's, going today or tomorrow and grab the Century like you say and the Supercharge seller is just having a go!

For me the only 'specific' difference between any marine and automotive battery I have ever owned has been............it's GPS coordinate at the time. LOL !

cheers fnq

[Playdo98]

FNQ, I would seriously have a look at the Optima Batteries. Yes they are expensive, but I have had my red top for about 6.5 years and it is still going strong. It has also been used extensviely offroad, corregations and winching.

I also had a Trojan (marine) as my deep cycle battery which after extensive reaserch had one of the best cranking and cycling capacity in the market. Only fault was it didn't take well to extreme angles offroad as the caps for each cells only clip on and tended to spill a bit of acid. I also got about 4.5 years out of this battery.

Currently have a Delkor DC, but havn't used it enough to rate it.

[FNQCairns]

Thanks playdo I had trouble finding the Trojan brand sold up here widely so I gave up on them, I did the deal yesterday and for what it is worth have the Century in the car ATM but thanks for adding to the advice base for any that read the thread.

Interesting how fast the cars glow plugs cycle now (60% faster) on cold start with this battery powering them, I had thought they where on a timer only but can now use this rough indicator to assume where any fitted battery's amp output is at any time irrespective of volts.

cheers fnq