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Thread: Fisheries

  1. #61

    Re: Fisheries

    Sunny Coast Mark,
    Perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

    "So what is the difference between being meshed by the wings of the net - or being herded in to the point where the fish are meshed -
    That's the beauty of tunnel operations, the fish are not meshed, they are herded into the tunnel where they wait unharmed for the fishermen to select what of the catch they want to keep and the rest is released completely unscathed.


    "Same as any other animal product - Farm it "
    Have you actually looked into the inputs on fish farming?
    It takes at least 5 X kgs, often as much as 10X of fish meal input compared to Kgs harvested. I'm yet to have a piece of farmed fish half as good as wild caught product.
    Sustainable harvesting of a regenerating resource is a wonderful thing, high density monoculture has more spin off negative consequences than you can poke a stick at. Just for a start; the use of antibiotics & anti fungals nessecary in the high stocking levels required to make the excercise viable, the high protien runoffs + many many other impacts. I strongly urge you to check your facts.

    Being aware of what the green agenda is - is just common sense. Do you want to se all the best spots under lock and key?
    Agenda? Apart from the %5 loony fringe (eg PETA) the goal of these people is within spitting distance of yours - IE to protect the resource.
    It is proven beyond any doubt that the protection of nursery & hub locations greatly benefit the stocks on a wider area. So if your "best spots" are the breeding & nursery sites, then yes I do want them protected.

    As for the netting - You only have to look at the imorvement in catch rates in Pumicestone passage since netting was banned there to see the result.
    This is pretty obvious. It doesn't matter if the fish are caught with line, net or electrofishing and goes to my "They are my fish" point.
    The environment produces X'000 kg per annum in a fishery & Y'000 kg can be harvested each year without reducing the stocks long term- this is called Maximum Sustainable Yield. When whaling exceeded MSY the population fell rapidly. The fact that commercial fishers can catch fish night after night in the same spot is pretty much conclusive that they have not exceeding MSY.

    Commercial boats have the ability to go further out - most rec fishers would be foolish to venture out so far. Makes prefect sense to keep the pro's out to sea.
    Hmm, where do I start on this one?

    Inshore netting targets inshore species. Not much chance of productive fishing in 80 fathoms targeting flathead, whiting & bream.
    Inshore fish species are some of the most productive & fastest turnover fisheries. EG a 2 year old bream is ready for the pan, a 20 year old orange roughy is to small to bother processing. Check your productivity facts.

    The small family type operator just cant finance or run the kind of gear required to fish for the Deep water species. Does this mean you'd prefer to see more of the effort concentrated in the hands of mega corporations?

    Is it ok to risk the life of pro fishers but not ok to risk rec fishers?

    It browns me that people seem to think that because they buy a boat that gives them some kind of exclusive right to the fish. That's a bit of a big brush that you are tarring everyone with there Bob - sounds like a random statement to me..The attitude of "They're catching MY fish" is only one step away from "I'm gunna take home all I catch because if I don't somer other bugger will."Catching MY fish? You don't understand Bob - It's all our Fish Bob - Yours, mIne, my kids, your kids, their kids etc. Recreational fishing with commonsense constraints and bag limits - will be sustainable for Generations

    I don't retract from this statement at all.
    There is an attitude among many rec fishers that they have spent money on boats & gear they are entitled. Not all, I'll grant you, but the broad reaction here on Ausfish to the reduction in snapper rec bag limit a few years back was an eye opener. 80+% said "it's not fair," way less than 20% said "it'll be good for the stocks."

    Unchecked inshore commercial fishing CANNOT be sustainable.
    The commercial fishing effort is not unchecked, It is massively regulated. They have more hoops to jump through, I's to dot & T's to cross than you could possibly believe. If it was open slather then I'd agree with you, but it's not. Have a quick look at the commercial parts of the Fisheries Regulations. Among other restrictions they are limited by who can fish, what boats they can use, where & when they can fish, what gear (nets mesh & length, trawls, hook numbers etc) they can use, what species they can take, size limits apply, some fishers need to report what they are landing 2 hours prior to landing, big trawlers have satelite monitoring systems, etc etc etc.
    While I'd agree flawed in places, I believe these regulations go a long way towards ensuring the commercial catch is sustainable.

    It seems from your comments that you want all commercial operations banned from the Bay. OK, that's your opinion - I disagree. I think we should focus on the hard answers like pollution & habitat destruction before we attack the pro's who provide a healthy & domesticly produced part of the protein diet of many Queenslanders who don't cath their own.

  2. #62

    Re: Fisheries

    One thing not raised here is that, by and large, this board is a collection of the top 20% of anglers who are "mad keen".

    We buy the fishing mags, are across most of the rules, regs and issues and in large part see the value of license fees "IF" they are directed the right way.

    We all know SIP works, but lets face it, this created and maintains an artificial recreational fishery which did not exit and it should be paid for by "us".

    For the less "mad keen" the big issue with a recreational license is simply people stop fishing. Occassional anglers, holiday anglers, potential visitors and, far more importantly, potential "mad keeners" stop or never start in the first place.

    The sport/passtime has gone from being one of lifes simple easy pleasures to a minefield of rules, regs, bag limits, zones, fines etc etc over my 45 odd years of active participation to a point (already) where far smaller numbers of people regularly fish.

    Yes, pressure of life and alternatives to ways we spend our time and money exist but I have no doubt fishing and participation rates drop in direct proportion to the number of regulations, rules etc placed in the way.

    Every time a fishing license has been introduced into an Australian state, participation rates have fallen. Some would argue this is a good thing, not so the boating and tackle trade. Some may even conclude this is the very reason for more regulations, stop the great unwashed from fishing and "destroying our preciuos environment".

    When the massive zoning of the GBR was introduced participation rates in the far north fell by 42% in a single year. You will see a similar drop off in the bay.......just ask your local boat dealer how he's going! Some people come back, many do not and if a recreational salt water license was ever introduced you would see increased drop outs.

    I'll even give you a personal insight. I live 45 minutes from Prossy dam and arguabley some of the best impoundment barra fishing in Australia. I have over the years, brought SIP permits and fished the dam, even caught a few but just as regularly, the thought crosses my mind, maybe I'll head out the dam for a change. Second thought, is my SIP still current and usually the answer is no....followed by. ^%#$@ the fishing, I'll just sit and watch the footy. Who loses? The garage, the tackle shop and "me". This is what will happen if QLD ever introduces salt water licensing. You, me and the majority of Ausfishers would buy one before we fed ourselves but the majority of occassional fishos would put it off and put it off and "maybe" buy one just before annual leave, or maybe not and the drop out would continue and continue a slow slide to the point where fishing is the exclusive passtime of a few ecentric old codgers, like me. Our bargaining power, political influence would slide away and die. Those here who talk "big picture" and talk about the value for the future of rec licenses need to consider a different future. One where very few people fish, those that do contribute to a slowing decreasing pool of funding, where more is paid by increasingly few participants and it all just dies away.

    A different future is less bloody rules and a return to the glory days when recreational fishing was a common passtime for almost everyone and with that political masters recognised its value, both to the economy and social fabric of our society.
    Some rules are great, common sense and enhance the fishery, like slot sizing of barra and flatties & sensible bag limits, others like zonings and fines for zoning breaches, crab pot marking and I put saltwater licensing clearly in this catagory are, by design or consequence, just rules which make it all too bloody hard and not worth the bother.

    KC

  3. #63

    Re: Fisheries

    Maybe they aren't real keen from the start then if they could not be bothered to buy a license and I reckon goodo if they don't want to fish because of the cost of a license fee.
    That'll leave more room and fish for me.
    How much does a person need to spend to throw a line to begin with by the time you get a line and some bait??
    A three day license is about $5. Big deal.
    Would have been a waste if they had to pay the full year to start.

    What sport or past-time is free now-a-days??
    How much does does a game of golf cost?
    How about a game of tennis or cycling or basketball or pretty well any sport including bush walking cost??
    As for the rules...well everything has rules and regs. I can't even walk the dog or take the palm fronds to the tip without following rules now so what's a few more to learn about fishing??
    Hell, I can't even wash the car without rules and regulations
    How about a movie or a couple of DVD's rentals?? What would that cost to fill a day?
    If the license is going to stop a few people fishing then tough noogies IMO.
    If they did not want to buy a license then the chances are they would not have known much about the rules and regs and, if not checked, could be the end of fishing full stop.
    Don't forget the license in QLD would probably not needed for those under 18 and those who are pensioners (that what's NSW is if I remember) so the young can still get involved for no license fee and pop can take them and show the whipper snappers the ropes for nicks.
    Also if the boating industry is going to go broke if they bring in a license then they already in strife.
    If someone is not going to buy a license to have a fish then I very much doubt if they'd buy a boat to have a fish.
    I intend on living for-ever....so far so good


  4. #64

    Re: Fisheries

    Quote Originally Posted by Nowhere Bob View Post
    Agenda? Apart from the %5 loony fringe (eg PETA) the goal of these people is within spitting distance of yours - IE to protect the resource.
    It is proven beyond any doubt that the protection of nursery & hub locations greatly benefit the stocks on a wider area. So if your "best spots" are the breeding & nursery sites, then yes I do want them protected.
    Bob, you must be one of the gullible types that buys everything the Government tells you with their slick advertisements. 'To protect the resource' LOL.....

    (rest of post deleted as I coundn't be bothered repeating what I have written previously in the news section of ausfish. It is all there to be read - pages and pages of it from me and plenty of others)

    Jeremy
    "The underlying spirit of angling is that the skill of the angler is pitted against the instinct and strength of the fish and the latter is entitled to an even chance for it's life."
    (Quotation from the rules of the Tuna Club Avalon, Santa Catalina, U.S.A.)

    Apathy is the enemy

  5. #65

    Re: Fisheries

    Not sure if your response was tongue in cheek finga but how the heck will anyone ever get "keen" if they never get started in the first place. I venture almost every guy on this board stared as a young bloke and got the bug, usually from his old man. In turn as they kicked on they progressed from jetty and handline to better and better gear and eventually their first tinny, followed by an upgrade and maybe even a big offshore rig eventually.

    How many kids fish these days compared to 30 years ago? Bugger all! Why? Too much competition for their time, and too bloody hard. Where does that leave the future. Less people fishing I guess which might suit you and might suit the likes of PETA and should the industry become less viable and more boating and tackle outlets dissapear is this just tough luck? Maybe you might find your own local dealer and tackle shop gone and have to travel 20 miles to find another.

    The selfish view (IMO) is everyone should put up or shut up. If people don't want to pay a fee then p&^%$ off.
    Personally I think we benifit enourmously as a direct result of the sports popularity, more money and more participation means ultimately more corporate investment, better gear, better boats and better technology.

    You are however welcome to your view and if your happy peeing into an increasing shrinking puddle, because less people are peeing over your shoulder then good luck to you

    KC

  6. #66

    Re: Fisheries

    Quote Originally Posted by kc View Post
    Not sure if your response was tongue in cheek finga but how the heck will anyone ever get "keen" if they never get started in the first place. I venture almost every guy on this board stared as a young bloke and got the bug, usually from his old man.

    KC
    I'm serious.
    In NSW you get an 18 year head start before you need to buy a license.
    I reckon that must be a pretty good start to see if your going to get the bug or not.

    So has introduction of the SIP fee destroyed the bait, fuel and boat shops in the freshwater areas because people have had to pay a fee??
    Nope.
    Has the fishing improved??
    Yep
    I'd hate to see the crowds at our local tackle fella at Evans if the license fee was taken away. Can't get served now so I wonder how busy he'd be if the license wasn't around.

    Where do you get your figures from?
    I'd like to have a gander at them in detail.

    But I'm only in support IF the fee is used for what it's meant for.
    If it goes into general revenue then I'm at the head of the protest march.
    I intend on living for-ever....so far so good


  7. #67

    Re: Fisheries

    No rec fishing fee for Qld..if you think this Govt would put the money back to do anything for rec fishing..forget it..they trampled over us on the green zones..they don't give a rats so why should we give them any more money.

  8. #68

    Re: Fisheries

    Hi again Finga,

    Has the SIP effected the bait and tackle industry? Absolutely. It has created an industry where one did not even exist and has been positive. A new fishery, paid for by end users has created jobs and businesses. No question. I need only look as far as Prossy Dam. A tackle shop and guide operation where there was none.

    Will a license have a postive impact on an existing fishery. Not in my opinion. Will it improve the fishery........maybe ............IF the money is used for commercial buyouts......but, in the mean time, people move on. Participation rates have fallen in Victoria and NSW even though the fishing has (from all reports) improved.

    As to my "figures', I base this in part on the 2005 Qld Government survey into participation rates in recreational fishing (which by accident, happened just after RAP). This formed the first official statistical confirmation of what was anecdotally obviuos. People (42% in fact) gave it away and this "number" was used to quantify the amount of damages suffered by the industry which in turn lives of "us".

    Look you state the obviuos yourself. If people stop fishing because of a license, then maybe they should not, or don't deserve to be, fishos in the first place. You prefer it that way & so be it. That is your argument. I happen to take a different view. I like fishing being popular and personally, the more the merrier. I think we get a better deal if their are more of us " mad keeners" out there. Better gear, better boats, and above all a better "deal" from those in the halls of power.

    PS : I still have a suspicion you are "taking the piss "

    KC

  9. #69

    Re: Fisheries

    Quote Originally Posted by PinHead View Post
    No rec fishing fee for Qld..if you think this Govt would put the money back to do anything for rec fishing..forget it..they trampled over us on the green zones..they don't give a rats so why should we give them any more money.
    Yeah, past experiences from QLD policy makers put me in the firing line hey.
    But I'm still in favor if it was run right but reality has to set in.
    Now where's that placard??

    So how did the SIP scheme get through the way it is?
    I intend on living for-ever....so far so good


  10. #70

    Re: Fisheries

    [quote=SunnyCoastMark;1011210]
    Quote Originally Posted by finga View Post
    It's been in NSW for years and works.
    The money raised from the license goes towards buying out commercial licenses, fish releases, education etc etc.
    Have a look at this site http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fisheries/...al/licence-fee

    Uh -huh and our boat rego fees get used for for providing better ramps and facilities as well........ or is that the money from the tooth fairy - I get so confused

    It costs me $30/year and I reckon I get my money's worth from them.
    Call me cynical, - $30/year ATM - how long until it is $100 a year?
    They even give me a fish measuring sticker with the species pictures on it with bag and size limits etc.
    That's got to be worth $15 I reckon.
    So don't knock it until you know about it.

    You know you need a license for freshwater in QLD don't you? Yes, but I don't really fish freshwater much - too many restrictions.

    My problem with all of this is it is a product of the society we live in - too many rules and regulations. Some are good (and necessary), but where do you draw the line?

    Prime example - a kid can't even catch a bit of bait to sell at the local boat ramp without causing a storm in a tea cup.........

    Why is it that the government finds it necessary to regulate every form of recreational activity under the sun?
    Fishing - especially with a boat is becoming very expensive. EPIRBS - now $500! Why is that? - it is just a diffferent frequency than the old one. - Someone is making a killing! But I digress........

    The #1 problem is pro fishing (netting) in inshore areas and estuaries. - Like Hervey bay, Moreton Bay, Pumicestone Passage. Barrier reef.

    That is what needs regulating. That is what needs stopping. But NO - they put it all on the recreational fisho - most of whom do nothing more than feed the fish every weekend.

    Pro fisho's complain that their families have been doing it for generations - EXACTLY!

    All Netting should be banned within 40km's of the coastline.

    Anyway - I know there will be lots who disagree with me - but hey that is fine.
    Just my rant at the world because those damn winds won't drop below 20 knots!

    Mark
    One of the truest posts I've seen on Ausfish - regulation overload, the straw for me was visiting a Victorian beach one day to see a sign proscribing the (only) 2 ways you could put up a beach umbrella....good greif

  11. #71

    Re: Fisheries

    Quote Originally Posted by kc View Post
    Hi again Finga,

    Has the SIP effected the bait and tackle industry? Absolutely. It has created an industry where one did not even exist and has been positive. A new fishery, paid for by end users has created jobs and businesses. No question. I need only look as far as Prossy Dam. A tackle shop and guide operation where there was none.


    KC
    Hey KC, how good was the fresh water fishery prior to the Prossy Dam being in place? Did it take for the stocking to take place before it got so good that a tackle store and guide operation are now supported?

  12. #72

    Re: Fisheries

    Mate Prossy dam is a perfect example of an artifical fishery, paid for by the end users and a perfect reason to support the SIP program....which I do 100%.

    You may however have missed my point. A salt water license is for a fishery which already exists and the point I am trying to make is that IF a saltwater license was introduced it will result in a decrease in the number of people who go fishing and my argument is that the recreational fishing industry and fishos themselves will suffer as a result.

    Recreational fishing in NSW and VIC has decreased after the license, even though, from all reports, fishing has got better.

    After RAP a massive decrease in participation rates and the flow on effect to industry and if the sport/passtime ends up the domain of an ecentric few then will we have as much political clout as we do now?I noticed for the first time at the last State election the media regularly used the term "The Fishing Vote" and both Bligh and Springborg had photo opps with fishos.
    "We" are an important voting block because of our numbers and with this it gives us some hope of a better deal. The greens by way of example have slightly better "organised" numbers.

    I guess I am trying to look long term.

    On one hand a saltwater license and subsequent commercial buyouts has appeal in that it may well improve the fishery for those who participate. And this would be a great outcome.

    On the other hand less and less people will fish and this weakens "our" position long term and will see more and more fisheries policies determined by the anti fishing lobby as they gain numbers and political strenght.

    Which way is the right way? Buggered if I know. Just IMO a saltwater license would be a bloody disaster. It would not stop me, it would not stop you and it would not stop 99% of Ausfish users. We are the exception. It would stop the young, the occassional and the "maybe one dayers" who just watched Creek to Coast and thought they might give it a go.


    Anyhow. WTF. I'm going fishin"

    KC

  13. #73

    Re: Fisheries

    You misunderstood me, before the dam and before the dam was subsequently stocked, there was a fresh water fishery and my question referred to that.

  14. #74

    Re: Fisheries

    Hi mate,

    yes a little one that still exists and is acessed by only a few guys. It is however very productive. It includes hiking through the lagoons on Goonganga plains. Mainly rat barra (in large numbers) as well as tarpon and sooties. This is accessed straight off the Bruce Highway. During the peak of the wet this can go beserk with lots of locals lining the main road and fishing the gutters for at time 100 barra sessions per angler. Get so "bad" the coppers start booking people for obstructing traffic (true story). Often a fishery which is active about 3 or 4 days a year only.

    The dam site itself had no permanent water and is a completely artifical waterway/fishery.

    Also a small fishery exists where prossy river meets the salt at Myrtle Creek. Again mainly rat barra but can fish well at times. This is just North of Prossy township on road to Airlie.
    Regards

    KC

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