Is There More To The Barra Donut ? (Impoundment)

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

As we know Nath ..... Stable ( shitty or good) will produce fish ........ They have to feed!
but unlike most natural fisheries that I have fished .......... You dont get the little tackers ( this concerns me a bit) ...... I fished for plenty of species & you can nearly bet the other one ..... That even during a shut down bite - some little bugger is going to have a go We have found this at Awoonga in the past ......... So what has changed

Chris

Nagg,
The fish do not have to feed when conditions deteriorate; they can rest for days or even weeks without tucker, especially after a week of ideal weather conditions. In crappy conditions and on lakes with less educated fish, you can and do catch a proportion of your catch due to their curiosity and instinctive behaviour, not because they are hungry. A noisy lure can bring the fish to you, but not out of hunger, but due to 'interest'. Lakes like Awoonga will see less fish landed in crappy, deteriorating water conditions than say in a lake like Monduran with fish of a different mind set, although those barra in that lake will be changing very fast.
Small tackers aren't about at the moment because they haven't been stocked in any quantity, that is why you don't get one on your line!
Cheers,
Johnny

[warrior]

chris do you think that now we have catch and release everywhere and it is drilled into our heads now days, these dams now have a lot of fish that have been caught more than once, i would say they are getting gun shy as as they grow and if not taken out they have a real chance of getting pinned many times in their life and some pundants say they have memories of only minutes but maybe not so,maybe it is a case of getting rid of the big girls ,my opinion is i cant kill the great fish i get a real buzz from having the thrill of fighting them then seeing them slink into the depths to fight another day, maybe it is us that is doing the donut thing to all our dams as to not a lot of smallish fish caught maybe the big girls are eating bigger fish than we think cheers AL

[PaulMark]

Paulo,
Even in hammered fisheries, many fish will still be caught by switched on anglers. I believe the lake fisheries slowed down way too quickly in late 2008 for it to be blamed on fishing pressure alone; especially when atleast 3 different lakes with light to heavy fishing pressure were involved. Some local Awoonga guides had charters with 16-21 fish in afternoon sessions. A hidden cause, based on a multitude of reasons, but strongly connected to an issue related to water quality was the first noticeable change. A water rise of 2 metres in Awoonga saw some great fishing return, but, with that, the aquatic plants boomed again, and now, those same booming plants are dying off in a big way. The cycle again needs to run its course. When will it stop, or break the cycle, is the million dollar question
JM

The world of lakes is constantly changing; something that we have always recognised. The guidelines that control fish behaviour in a landlocked pond is way out of our control. The numbers of fish in Awoonga is astounding. In 42ft, one day early this week, the volume of fish my clients fished on was amazing. They had strikes, but none were boated. Stocking numbers are down on earlier years, but I do not believe a quick re-stock is the instant fix. Time, and nature's way has the final say on what environment is created for the fish to live in, in a waterway that is bound by land and dictated by weather conditions. Like all lakes, they have prime periods and tough periods- just like the paddocks on 'Farmer Bill's' property.
Giving any fishery a spell is important. Rest periods and allowing time for fish to 'chill out' is essential, but in lakes, that may never happen. Mother Nature provides the best 'spell periods' in the form of harsh weather periods, cool winters and tough living conditions. In time, things change, but yes, mass boats, and noisy approaches, and continuous traffic, and continued fishing effort on barra lakes is the double edged sword. We could write a list of things that will change, and things that won't.
I believe a mega flood will improve conditions, but will it happen this year?
Some of the quality barra being landed is still eye- popping, and it is times like this when every trick in the book needs to be used to gain the upper hand, or to give the best chance possible. It tests us all, keeps us thinking, and most importantly, it keeps our heads on future goals and it conditions ourselves to the levels required to stay in good stead as a level headed barra fisherman. There is no place for a soft angler in the barra game who wants to fish day in day out. Those that stay through the tough periods come out way better conditioned and improved anglers. It was only yesterday that I sat and talked to Awoonga guide, Rod Harrison, who, had a very large gold fish bowl with two dozen finely tuned, delicately rigged barra lures within. The alterations in play, and the concepts in mind showed a thinking angler staying closely tuned to a changing fishery. A string of large fish for clients recently stands as support to his crafty artwork. To eliminate doughnuts, diversity in fishing applications is essential. I haven't tied on so many lures this year as ever before. The effort applied to get fish on lines has trippled, but if an angler is willing, there is a way.
Johnny

Thanks for the post John,this is certainly a top thread.At the end of the day catching one of these beautiful animals is the quest.We just have to work harder and smarter as they won't jump into the boat by themselves.In a way outsmating them,going that extra 9 yards should be more satisfying.A donut still hurts but.
Paulo

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

They hurt badly!!

[NAGG]

As we know Nath ..... Stable ( shitty or good) will produce fish ........ They have to feed!
but unlike most natural fisheries that I have fished .......... You dont get the little tackers ( this concerns me a bit) ...... I fished for plenty of species & you can nearly bet the other one ..... That even during a shut down bite - some little bugger is going to have a go We have found this at Awoonga in the past ......... So what has changed

Chris

Nagg,
The fish do not have to feed when conditions deteriorate; they can rest for days or even weeks without tucker, especially after a week of ideal weather conditions. In crappy conditions and on lakes with less educated fish, you can and do catch a proportion of your catch due to their curiosity and instinctive behaviour, not because they are hungry. A noisy lure can bring the fish to you, but not out of hunger, but due to 'interest'. Lakes like Awoonga will see less fish landed in crappy, deteriorating water conditions than say in a lake like Monduran with fish of a different mind set, although those barra in that lake will be changing very fast.
Small tackers aren't about at the moment because they haven't been stocked in any quantity, that is why you don't get one on your line!
Cheers,
Johnny

I'm pretty sure that all barra are not in the same state of digestion ...... do you agree ? ...... If that is the case - Yes, a barra that fed on Monday may not want to feed till Thursday ........ but a barra that fed on Sat ..... might need to feed on Tuesday
also each barras metabolic rate would differ ....... I'm sure these 2 specimen ; 121Attachment 44191 & 123Attachment 44190 would have different feeding requirements .......... So yes - I'm sure barra will sulk & not feed - but I dont think it is completely cut & dried .......... barra are & will continue to be caught at the most unexpected times - sometimes actively feeding , others through aggression / reaction



Chris

[NAGG]

chris do you think that now we have catch and release everywhere and it is drilled into our heads now days, these dams now have a lot of fish that have been caught more than once, i would say they are getting gun shy as as they grow and if not taken out they have a real chance of getting pinned many times in their life and some pundants say they have memories of only minutes but maybe not so,maybe it is a case of getting rid of the big girls ,my opinion is i cant kill the great fish i get a real buzz from having the thrill of fighting them then seeing them slink into the depths to fight another day, maybe it is us that is doing the donut thing to all our dams as to not a lot of smallish fish caught maybe the big girls are eating bigger fish than we think cheers AL

Al ... I hate the idea of a cull ..... it hurts my ears Natural causes & hapless anglers take their toll ..... along with legitimate Take.
I dont subscribe to big barra eating all the little ones ( it would happen to a minor extent but very minor .... there are much easier targets than a fast 40cm barra) - you will also catch small barra amongst the big girls.
Yes - i'm sure these big fish wise up to being caught - but that wont stop a switched on angler from catching those same fish by offering a different presentation ......... there are many barra that have been tagged & caught again - so we dont need to think that way ........... IMHO.
Yes ..... we anglers can & do change our way of thinking - & can obtain results ..... but I feel that if these fisheries are to remain viable & attractive more needs to be done
...... The local stocking groups & authorities need to keep up stocking on a regular basis ....... & go about it in a better manner ( dumping them at a boat ramp ........ is just silly) .......... The Gladstone water authority hatchery should be producing better results than it does ......... but for what ever reason - it has dropped the ball from what I have heard
I'm not saying that a rapid short term stocking is the answer ...... I'm more for a program that sees the introduction of stock on a regular basis

Chris

[Tropicaltrout]

Chris this is one of your best.

The point you make on the little fellas is interesting too, in the last few trips I have seen alot of the small 50 to 60 cm fish either on my line or someone telling me about there catch.

This could be for and this is a guess, they where released in certain areas and are yet to branch out throughout the dam??? have to ask Steve that one find out where they released them. ( probably at the boat ramp so there goes that theory )

To the feed part you will see a place fire where you can get 10 to 20 touches hook ups or even fish in the boat, but then there are days where there is nothing, either a change in the water temp, movement what ever so they shut down till they get conditions that turn them on, not every fish in the dam will stop and as a dam of mondy size somewhere is still doing the right things for fish to feed. The trick is to find the area. In saying that concertrations of fish will must change to from spot to spot, so flicking lure over and over might produce 1 fish where as a spot x may produce 5 or 6 when conditions are good?

Barra are awesome, gee they make ya think

[NAGG]

Chris this is one of your best.



To the feed part you will see a place fire where you can get 10 to 20 touches hook ups or even fish in the boat, but then there are days where there is nothing, either a change in the water temp, movement what ever so they shut down till they get conditions that turn them on, not every fish in the dam will stop and as a dam of mondy size somewhere is still doing the right things for fish to feed. The trick is to find the area. In saying that concertrations of fish will must change to from spot to spot, so flicking lure over and over might produce 1 fish where as a spot x may produce 5 or 6 when conditions are good?

Barra are awesome, gee they make ya think

Hi Nath

Thanks for the comment - if the thread promotes thought & discussion - then its a good thread
I hear what you are saying about conditions in certain areas - Its what we look for! - but having said that ...... We still see the fish not co-operating throughout the whole impoundment ...... or at best the odd fish caught. .......... & at times there appears to be no logical reason .
Yes mate ..... barra are awesome - they keep you thinking & second guessing - the buggers

Chris

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

I'm pretty sure that all barra are not in the same state of digestion ...... Do you agree ? ...... If that is the case - Yes, a barra that fed on Monday may not want to feed till Thursday ........ But a barra that fed on Sat ..... Might need to feed on Tuesday
also each barras metabolic rate would differ ....... I'm sure these 2 specimen ; 121 & 123 would have different feeding requirements .......... So yes - I'm sure barra will sulk & not feed - but I dont think it is completely cut & dried .......... Barra are & will continue to be caught at the most unexpected times - sometimes actively feeding , others through aggression / reaction.

Yea, I agree with the digestion bit, but imagine a cold snap directly after a heat wave; anglers will struggle, as fish don't need to eat, - metabolisms crash overnight, regardless of fish size, so some days you can be casting at an empty void, really hoping for a miracle. Any barra hooked on those days with horrible water conditions will often remain a mystery as to why they reacted, so No, we cannot say they eat every day,,,, but , maybe .00000000000000000000000000000001% may eat, but divide that over a huge lake surface area, and the needle and haystack game has just begun.
I think when anglers say "they eat everyday" , are not quite the right words to use, and are somewhat confusing for many. Each individual fish does not eat everyday, but on each average day, there will most likely be a barra somewhere feeding while others lay and rest. In the harsh times- none.
Fish caught via reaction, curiosity and instinct on tough days will become less, and more doughnut days will appear in hard worked fisheries as fish lose that interest to investigate.

But you are right, nothing is cut and dried due to the diversety in waterways and topography, and that is what gives us hope, that maybe around the corner in the next pocket a 120cm fish is waiting. Two out of three large Awoonga captures have come on board my boat in the toughest of conditions, so it keeps us positive and focused on success.
Great Thread!
Thanks,
JM

[NAGG]

But you are right, nothing is cut and dried due to the diversety in waterways and topography, and that is what gives us hope, that maybe around the corner in the next pocket a 120cm fish is waiting. Two out of three large Awoonga captures have come on board my boat in the toughest of conditions, so it keeps us positive and focused on success.
Great Thread!
Thanks,
JM

Johnny ...... on our last trip fish came during periods - that for my way of thinking defied logic ........... After 3 magic days that were followed by the most horrid conditions ( only a hand full of boat braved the conditions - cold ,windy & wet) - but yes the barra played ball with a 121 & 2 others good fish landed - in daylight hours & well before sunset! .......... conditions were so bad I couldn't be bothered going back for the camera once we launched - mistake 1

Gotta love this barra stuff

Chris

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

Nagg,
In there lies two very different descriptions.
1. weather conditions.
2. water conditions.
Crappy weather conditions doesn't always mean crappy water conditions.
Crappy weather conditions can still leave ideal water conditions, and crappy , cloudy, miserable weather can mean ideal circumstances for fish in ideal water conditions!
Two far opposed meanings. The crappier the weather, the worse the water conditions will become in time , until they stabilise to the weather conditions at play. So, we really have to look at the weather, and its follow on effects into the water.
JM

[setthehook]

I was expecting monduran water level to rise at the time arround the cyclone but it didnt? and ive been back twice since and it has dropped by 30cm each time! fast falling water levels could be some sort of play in the problem? thats alot of water to vanish in a week!!

[BarraBandit]

Nagg,

I am really glad you put this up and that SOMONE FINALY asked the question "is there more happening?".

The old man and I went up to Faust (went out on a charter with Lindsy Dobe... Book with him!) Awoonga, Cania and Monduran... Now, this was interesting...

At Cania, the bass went off, over 40 fish between 2people in 4 hours... weather was fine, light cloud, light winds... Perfect.

At Faust, We had 6 days there... 1st day:

Went out in the arvo from 3-7pm. Dead.

2nd day: Went out in the morning from 6-11am. Found the fish, most sitting right on the bottom... went out with lindsy that night, Trolled for 6hours... 1 hookup and 1 lost fish.

3rd day: All the fish still in the same spots... On the bottom, not moving. (you would swear they were belly up -.-)

4th day: Had a perfect day weather wise come in, warmed up the water real good, light winds, lots of bait... but the fish just didnt look at anything. I would like to know why, as we could tell, they hadent been feeding normaly for days (Lindsy agreed) and on the most perfect day for about 3weeks still desided to sook.

5th day: Light rain with 10-15km winds came through... came in after 3hours in the morning of no luck.

6th day: Got 4hours in, with one little touch... then went to Awoonga for 3days.


Lindsy called us 2 weeks later, told us that a huge storm came in... and the fish went nutz for 6hours then went back to the way they were. We called up a mate at Faust who was fishing, and he said that just before the storm there was a small fish kill??



Awoonga was dead for the 3days... The Red Bank was holding all the fish, but all we could put it down to was the weed being loose and not doing what it does best... keeping the water liveable.



Monduran, we were there for 1day, bass wanted to play but the barra didnt.




I have thought about other factors but I just cant pin it down, it cant be as simple as fish just being fish... it was just perfect days that 2-3years ago you would be hauling barra in...


If you have any info you think would help me understand PM me.






Bandit.

[NAGG]

Nagg,
In there lies two very different descriptions.
1. weather conditions.
2. water conditions.
Crappy weather conditions doesn't always mean crappy water conditions.
Crappy weather conditions can still leave ideal water conditions, and crappy , cloudy, miserable weather can mean ideal circumstances for fish in ideal water conditions!
Two far opposed meanings. The crappier the weather, the worse the water conditions will become in time , until they stabilise to the weather conditions at play. So, we really have to look at the weather, and its follow on effects into the water.
JM

I would have thought plummeting water temps (5 Deg drop) ......... currents dragging the warmer water out of our productive area ....... & little bait activity - would spell the end of any notion of a bite in that area ... but bite they did ! .... go figure

Chris

[NAGG]

I was expecting monduran water level to rise at the time arround the cyclone but it didnt? and ive been back twice since and it has dropped by 30cm each time! fast falling water levels could be some sort of play in the problem? thats alot of water to vanish in a week!!

The fickle fishing has gone on for months from what I have been told ........ yes fish are being caught - but in combination with plenty of pastry
Funnily while they were pumping out ........ we had our best results with multiple fish hooked/ landed most days!

Now what I'm sure will happen is that the dying weed will play its part over the coming weeks,

Chris