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  1. #46

    Re: Line Testing Breaking strain.

    Hey Guys
    Upated the list again.
    Iron Braid 6 lb, 10 lb, 16 lb, Sunline castaway 10 lb, 16 lb, Sunline saltwater jigger 8 XX lb.
    More to come shortly, and some knots.
    Thanks for all the info and line Guys, keep it coming.
    Its good to see that some of you are starting to look at the list, before the purchase of line.
    Thanks for all the contact, emails and Pm's
    Thank you Results at
    www.pcwi.com.au/fishing/index.htm
    Paul

  2. #47

    Re: Line Testing Breaking strain.

    hi Paulus
    I 'd like to thank you for the wonderful service your hobby is doing to people into the technical stuff and all other fisherfolk as well. I have certainly learnt a lot about lines and especially braid, and have changed some of the ways i do things due to your results. Its interesting your results from the knot tests have corroborated my success's and failure through trial and error. One day I'll get my act together and send you some line and knots for testing...........

    Whilst looking at looking at a post by "Wicarra" http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/sho...d.php?t=147777 I followed a link you might find interesting http://www.sportfishingmag.com/article.jsp?ID=43574

    "Discovered! The Counterintuitive 12-Turn Bimini
    You just can't do enough turns with superbraid: It's slippery stuff that likes to cut into itself. I'd long heard that a standard 20- or 25-turn Bimini won't do with braid and that another 20 turns at the very minimum would help hold the knot. Heck, I often tied 60 turns. Hey, the more wraps the merrier, right?
    D'oh!
    Much to my astonishment, I found that taking more turns actually weakens the knot. And not just a little bit: The 40- and 60-turn knots broke repeatedly at roughly a third of the line's actual strength, rating these among the poorest I tied. The knots proved marginally stronger if I doubled the line, then tied these many-wrap Biminis, ending up with eight tag ends and a great-looking but not very strong knot. Compare the 27- to 38-percent strength of 40- to 60-turn Biminis with the 80-percent strength, or thereabouts, of 20-turn knots.
    That very comparison led me to wonder about going the other direction. That is, if a 20-turn knot outperforms a 60-turn knot, what about say just 12 turns?
    The result astounded me so much that I went back to IGFA to do some quick retesting in the limited time I had. Same outcome: The 12-turn Bimini twist time and again either held its own against the 20-turn or more often actually outperformed it! In 20-pound Fireline the results were nearly identical at 80 and 81 percent (pretty good for a superbraid). In 50-pound PowerPro, the 77-percent 20-turn Bimini paled next to an 88-percent 12-turn Bimini.
    At that point, still fascinated but late in the game with time growing short, I decided I had to try mono. I had a spool of 30-pound Stren Hi-Impact mono (45.1-pound break, dry) with me and quickly knocked out five tests. (I can tie a basic 20-turn Bimini in short order; another benefit of the 12-turn it's even quicker.) Not even close: the 20-turn came out just about 70 percent, but the 12-turn broke at 101 percent! The other line on hand was 14-pound Sufix Siege (21.5-pound break, dry), which tested at 90 percent with a 20-turn knot while tied with only 12 turns it tested at 96 percent. I also tested a few more 20-pound braids; the results showed the same basic pattern.
    Can you guess how many turns I'll be tying in my Bimini twists, at least in light- to medium-line-class braids and monos, in the future?
    The author wants to offer special thanks to IGFA (www.igfa.org) for graciously handing over to him the use of the Instron line tester for three very long days and a bit more.
    I hope you maintain your hobby for a while to come as i look forward to reading the results.


    cheers


    al

  3. #48

    Re: Line Testing Breaking strain.

    Well mate a little more.
    Hey Guys
    Just updated the line testing section, with some thing new.
    You now have for all the mono and flurocarbon lines. A new type of line test that has been listed, a hardness factor, the number in the first box is a hardness number, you can now compare lines of similar diameter against each other. I have done this from retained samples on hand, not all of them done though, I will rely on you guys to fill the gaps.
    As well.
    Updated 14,04, 2009 Braid, Sunline castaway 10 & 16 lb
    Mono, Javis walker 25 lb, Penn 40 and 50 lb, Mustad thor 14 lb and Mustad UL 20 lb
    Leader Material, Sunline siglon low vis 38 lb, Penn 10X Super Tough leader 20 lb
    Paulus
    see it all at
    www.pcwi.com.au/fishing/index.htm

  4. #49

    Re: Line Testing Breaking strain.

    Hey Guys
    I have done a few additional lines.
    Black Magic Supple trace line. Black Magic leader. Black MagicTough trace.
    lots of names seems this line has a few differing types, and the results vary, so keep an eye out which one you
    are using.
    More Knot results listed.
    We spent a day playing with a series of knots, on the the line test machine.
    The outcome ///////
    If you are putting a double (loop) in braid, test a knot before you tie it to the leader. Pick up a weight with it.
    Put a line clip on a weighted bag, put the loop in the clip, wrap the other end of the line around a piece of 90 x 35 mm pine timber a few times, and try to lift the weight up by your shoulder. You may find the knot may slip a little, if it does, it needs to lock, this should be done before the line is tied to the leader, or it will break, at the leader join prematurely, or if its an unsuitable double knot it may fail.
    We tried the 12 turn Bimini Twist and found the Sufix braid slipped, so went to a 20 turn, we still had some minor slippage, the following locking knot needs more work.
    If this is tied to the leader the slight slippage puts additional strain on one leg of the loop causing the leader knot to be cut and or break prematurely.
    I tried the same Bimini Twist knot on Whiplash pro and got 21.36 lb on a 23.1 lb braid, I must have made 30 tests, and results ranged from 7.5 lb to 21.36 lb, 20 to 35 turns, great if they grip and far to many did'nt.
    At this stage this knot is a hit and miss item.
    Keep in mind, to test each knot individually, before testing a multi knot complete line system.
    I now have an electric Braider / plaiter and will try that, for the braid.
    Joining the braid loop to the leader, the improved double blood was the best, in all situations, but may well not work on heavy/hard lines, as the mono/FC will not form around the braid. We struggled with 30lb Mustad thor (test 41 lb) but it worked.
    A thin 6 to 20 lb / small diam braid does not need a double, if tied to a soft .300 mm / 15 lb or less mono leader, the braid folded and an improved double blood knot, will give all the strength you need. If you go to a 20 or 30 lb leader you will need a double in the braid (2 legs) to spread the load over the leader.
    Note: I know that a lot use fluorcarbon leaders, todate with all the testing I have done, have found that softer leaders perform better at the braid to leader knot, soft leader material holds and suports the braid better, and does not slip. With hard leaders the braid also cuts its self.
    I had some braid and leader dropped off today for testing, leader hardness was 92 and the knot broke at 4.82 lb, I re-tied the knot with a Improved double blood and re-tested it went to 6.07 lb.
    Then I changed the leader to a similar sized one, with a hardness of 83.7 re-tied the improved double blood and tested got 8.32 lb.
    Thanks with the help Scott
    Not completed yet.
    Paulus

  5. #50

    Re: Line Testing Breaking strain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim_N View Post
    Unreal Paulus,
    Averaging nearly 35 lb. Not bad from 15 lb claimed. When people talk about Fins, and then recommend it, you know why.
    Thanks for the use of your professional equipment and your own professionalism. This is fantastic to know, now I can screw the drag up and hope it all holds together. Look out Sweeties.
    Tim
    Just want to Clarify that this is the product we are talking about in the above tests.
    The stuff I've used had different packaging. I think it was just an older version. I'm about to order some line so need to make sure I get the right gear.
    Cheers Roo.

  6. #51

    Re: Line Testing Breaking strain.

    HI Roo
    I take it that is the product, but to be sure you may contact Tim_N as he sent it in.
    I have had another supply and it went the same.
    Nice line, just read the above post as far as knots and leaders go.
    Paulus

  7. #52

    Re: Line Testing Breaking strain.

    That's the stuff Roo, the 10 and 15 pound PRT lines are fantasic.
    Tim

  8. #53

    Re: Line Testing Breaking strain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulus View Post
    HI Roo
    I take it that is the product, but to be sure you may contact Tim_N as he sent it in.
    I have had another supply and it went the same.
    Nice line, just read the above post as far as knots and leaders go.
    Paulus
    Thanks Paulus, I don't tie doubles and I use a Slim Beauty knot. I'm Changing the line I use for Impoundment Barra. Not sure if I'll go the 15lb or 20lb in the Fins....but definitely one of them. I've just got a spool of Black magic 60lb supple to try out too. We'll see how it compares to my tried and tested 60lb Penn 10X. i have been using 50lb Tuffline XP but finding I need to down size the line diameter to regain some casting distance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim_N View Post
    That's the stuff Roo, the 10 and 15 pound PRT lines are fantasic.
    Tim
    Cheers Tim. I wasn't sure if it was different formulation or just new pretty packaging.

    Thanks, Roo.

  9. #54

    Re: Line Testing Breaking strain.

    Hey Guys i have updated the list on 23,04, 2009 with the following.
    Braid, Sunline Super PE 6 lb, Berkley FireLine 15 & 20 lb, Berkley Spiderwire red 8 & 10 lb, Power Strike 7 lb, Blue Water Fishing 30 lb, Iron Braid 30 & 50 lb, PE Fibre Braided line 30 lb.
    Mono type, Javis walker 25 lb, Penn 40 and 50 lb, Mustad thor 8 lb, Mustad Pro Select 12 lb, Berkley Vanish Fluoro 10 lb, Iron Flex 15 lb,
    Leader Material, Jinkai Leader 40, Black Magic Supple trace, Black Magic line and Black Magic Leader, lots of names with differing results.
    Extra hardness numbers
    More knots, Bimini Twist
    Still have some more to do.
    Paulus
    Hope it helps

    see it all at
    www.pcwi.com.au/fishing/index.htm

  10. #55

    Re: Line Testing Breaking strain.

    Hey Guys
    I always thought that if you got a particular brand line, colour would not matter as far as the breaking strain goes, but I have been thinking wrong.
    Some very surprising results in the lower breaking strains.
    Just goes to show, I tested some 7 lb line, small diam for the breaking strain, thought I might go the 4 lb, found it twice as thick and broke even higher than the 7 lb, wrong line on the spool. Finally got some 4 lb, nice and thin. You can never be quite sure.
    Updated 27,04,2009 with
    Braid, Sunline Super PE 6, 8, 10, 12, 15, 20 lb white and green, Berkley FireLine 15, 20 lb, Berkley Spiderwire red 8, 10 lb, Berkley FireLine Crystal 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 15, 20 lb, Berkley Whiplash Pro 4 lb, Power Strike 4, 7, 14? lb, Blue Water Fishing 30 lb, Iron Braid 30, 50 lb, PE Fibre Braided line 30 lb.
    Mono type, Javis walker 25 lb, Penn 40 and 50 lb, Mustad thor 8 lb. Mustad Pro Select 12 lb,Berkley Vanish Fluoro 10 lb, Iron Flex 15 lb,
    Leader Material, Jinkai Leader 40, Black Magic Supple trace, Black Magic line and Black Magic Leader, lots of names with differing results.
    Extra hardness numbers
    More knots, Bimini Twist, and more to do.
    Got more line in will do as time is available.
    Thanks guys.
    http://www.pcwi.com.au/fishing/index.htm

  11. #56

    Re: Line Testing Breaking strain.

    More stuff posted Paulus.
    Tim

  12. #57

    Re: Line Testing Breaking strain.

    This is great stuff Paulus. The good old Crystal seemed to be very understated
    A Proud Member of
    "The Rebel Alliance"

  13. #58

    Re: Line Testing Breaking strain.

    Hey guys thanks
    The list is growing.
    I am after berkley fireline crystal 8 lb, i need to do a comparison.
    Thanks to the person that sent in a bunch of line, will test it all.
    Any one have any info on the platyl braid, looks nice but a total unknown.
    Just tested Bionic have to put it up.

    I think most are under stated, the problem is some are not, so where do you stand and how hard do you fish.

    Thanks again
    Paulus

  14. #59

    Re: Line Testing Breaking strain.

    Hi Paulus,
    If you email me I can email back to you the industry codes for braid and Mono.

    It cuts out all the branding BS, and you can then tell by size and lb ratings given, what the manufacturers specs are.

    Eg, SK71 50lb is (100% dyneema 4 ply, 0.32mm 49lb)


    Generally line of all types is custom made to order (Mono, Dacron, Braid, Fluro carbon)

    I would like to give you this info on a chart, and then have you rate it accordingly off samples for actual Lb rating and knott strength rating.

    So we can accurately provide ratings on lines that will soon be distributing.

    Interested ? sales@##########.com.au

    Simon

  15. #60

    Re: Line Testing Breaking strain.

    Hi Mate,
    sent a mail.

    It seems things are a foot, well with Mono anyway. But braid you can get it made any way you like.
    In the end maybe it can be made to an International standard,,, that would be a good end result, but not in the short term.
    Seeing a braid with IGFA on it, does, well, should mean it will break below, but as most break well above, you may get a surprise when one does break below.
    I just tested a 4 lb braid that broke at 5 lb and thought what a disaster.
    Guess that is what is called mental conditioning, and then what should you expect,,, 10 to 15 or 21 lb??
    I would like to think that it's all tested to an international standard, but then also the thickness.
    The thickness is one parameter that is also err bent?, you can iron it out flat to almost zero, and call it a number in most cases diameter, but as you do the width grows, this seems to be an overlooked number, thats why I measure and list it the way i do. The thickness as a diameter on it's own means nothing, as braid in most cases is oval / rectangular in shape. Hence, this product does not dig in.
    It seems we still have a way to go.

    Its all good.
    Paulus

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