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  1. #31

    Re: AFC 2008 Monduran round - Leaders

    Thanks JM.....no criticism was intended, just looking for a reason why - to which you have responded.

    Chris, any comments on the effect of twisted leaders on the presentation of lures - especially soft plastics?

    Personally I have been using 80lb mono leaders when throwing soft plastics at barra and have not yet lost a fish (have come close though - the 104 in my avatar!). My son, who was using 60lb mono leader, lost a good fish at Mondy at the death when it chafed through the leader.........it was a big girl hooked deep and a long fight in open water.

    JM - "Chafe offs are a sad fact, and learning when to soften the firm approach is also another skill that comes with a kazillion barra captures"

    Between us we have now caught 4 barra on plastics, just short of a kazillion!!

    Regs

    Pete

  2. #32

    Re: AFC 2008 Monduran round - Leaders

    Johnny,
    Can't agree more about twisted leaders you must get a fish to strike first before you can land them we proved this time and time again with mackerel and jack by using mono leaders and not wire fair enough your lose rate was 3 times higher but our strike rate was 10 times that of anglers using wire traces. Rod tips, fallen timber under the water make the buggers jump, open country keep your rod tip low. Do reckon they muscle up a bit but.

    Cheers Foxie

  3. #33

    Re: AFC 2008 Monduran round - Leaders

    Johnny .... once again a valued & respected opinion.
    But - there really is no need to defend your young proteges ........ The lads are pretty well at the top of the tree & only a brave soul would deny that.

    High & low rod angles are something that can be argued ........ but the reality is that which tactic is the best is determined at that moment ( I'm learning this more & more .....still)............ Some barra will take to the air , others run ........ with those that stand and deliver something again. ....... we have all seen it - We can only play it by ear as every barra is different - I'm sure the next barra that runs from cover wont be the last!!!.

    Now ....... With regard to the opinion of twisted leaders reducing strike rates .......... Personally I think the jury is still out ! Particularly when we refer to 2 strands only & in lighter gauges (30-40lb) ....... Not the Lethal Leader type.
    I in my limited time on the water have not seen a diminished strike rate since I went down that path........ However the loss rate to worn leaders has been reduced significantly! ( I certainly know that twisties would be dropped like a hot cake ....... If I felt it significantly impeded my results - or I saw that my fishing buddy got all the action)
    As you said ...... Attracting the strike is No 1 - but surely landing them is another.

    Anyhow ........ The footage makes for a great discussion topic - good , bad whatever!

    Cheers

    Chris

    PS ..... Love your new DVD
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  4. #34

    Re: AFC 2008 Monduran round - Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter4 View Post
    Thanks JM.....no criticism was intended, just looking for a reason why - to which you have responded.

    Chris, any comments on the effect of twisted leaders on the presentation of lures - especially soft plastics?

    Personally I have been using 80lb mono leaders when throwing soft plastics at barra and have not yet lost a fish (have come close though - the 104 in my avatar!). My son, who was using 60lb mono leader, lost a good fish at Mondy at the death when it chafed through the leader.........it was a big girl hooked deep and a long fight in open water.

    Between us we have now caught 4 barra on plastics, just short of a kazillion!!

    Regs

    Pete
    Hi Pete

    On Twisties ........ When I started barra fishing I used the Erskine type ( I thought thats what you needed to do) ......... I got rid of them when I started fishing plastics ........ However losses mounted particularly on big fish ( 60 , 80 & 80lb FC ..... didn't help) .......... So after making up some hand made twisties & fishing them side by side with 80lb mono ........ There appeared to be no appreciable difference.
    Then Trev told me about his machine twisties ....... off I went

    Now- I have no doubt that there must be some negative influence ..... to the point that when fishing was tough during the ABT - I used 25lb FC Twisties , Got bites , caught a fish & blew another ....... So it is in the back of my mind.

    Lets see how things pan out through the course of this year starting March

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  5. #35

    Re: AFC 2008 Monduran round - Leaders

    More often than not nowadays I use 60lb mono for plastics as the action of the lure seems much better. Fishing lighter lines and leaders makes you keep very focussed when a fish is on and for me at least forces me to think outside the box and use freespool and/or back off the drag when it's called for.

    I agree with getting the fish to jump being a good idea at times, the 112 I got at the muster on 20lb braid and 60lb leader jumped quite a few times because the plastic was way down it's throat, although I believe that worked in my favour as it helped to tire the fish much quicker and at least kept it away from the timber/electric/outboard for a while

    I have never been a fan of twisted leaders if for no other reason than the sound of them going through the guides drives me nuts

    I tried wind ons last trip and unfortunately I didn't get to land a fish on them, but boy do they cast nice!

    Cheers
    Tony

  6. #36

    Re: AFC 2008 Monduran round - Leaders

    I have watched the last 4 (and have them safely on the foxbox) and I was amazed at this weeks round and the number of losses. It still looked to me that the pressure of the round generated some much greater anxiety to have the fish in the boat than in previous rounds. It seemed that particularly with Tim the Bream, there was less patience and cool than usual. I have never fished for Barra or Bass so i haven't a clue what it's like but that's why i study these programmes so closely. I look for tips and techniques and what works for them. If they catch fish on it - then hopefully, with practice I might one day too. First I need my boat - should only be a week or two now - and then...my fun can begin. In the meantime I just keep watching AFC, and Breamin' and AFC and soft plastic DVDs and AFC...........and reading your posts and posting a few of my own.
    Love this forum!!

    Graeme C.

  7. #37

    Re: AFC 2008 Monduran round - Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    Hi Pete

    On Twisties ........ When I started barra fishing I used the Erskine type ( I thought thats what you needed to do) ......... I got rid of them when I started fishing plastics ........ However losses mounted particularly on big fish ( 60 , 80 & 80lb FC ..... didn't help) .......... So after making up some hand made twisties & fishing them side by side with 80lb mono ........ There appeared to be no appreciable difference.
    Then Trev told me about his machine twisties ....... off I went

    Now- I have no doubt that there must be some negative influence ..... to the point that when fishing was tough during the ABT - I used 25lb FC Twisties , Got bites , caught a fish & blew another ....... So it is in the back of my mind.

    Lets see how things pan out through the course of this year starting March

    Chris
    Chris,

    Kyle and I are fishing Monduran in mid February. I intend to have two rods set up for casting plastics. One will have a mono leader and the other a twisted leader (your style). I will be testing both the presentation of the plastic and the strike rates. If the barra wish to play, I will try to get some stats together on the success of one against the other over four days of fishing....

    Regs

    Pete

  8. #38

    Re: AFC 2008 Monduran round - Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter4 View Post
    Chris,

    Kyle and I are fishing Monduran in mid February. I intend to have two rods set up for casting plastics. One will have a mono leader and the other a twisted leader (your style). I will be testing both the presentation of the plastic and the strike rates. If the barra wish to play, I will try to get some stats together on the success of one against the other over four days of fishing....

    Regs

    Pete
    Pete ..... Thats the smart play - Its what I did with Whitey ..... he used mono (60 & 80) & I used 40 & 50lb twisties .......... & yes there was a difference when I ran out of 40lb ,,,,,,, & had to use 50lb
    Then ....... During the whole ABT & ABT prefish ........ I used 40lb twisties alongside Matt who used mono - I never felt that I was disadvantaged at any stage.

    Lets see how you go !

    Chris

    PS ....... Did your twisties come out alright ?
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  9. #39

    Re: AFC 2008 Monduran round - Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    Did your twisties come out alright ?
    Still waiting for a hair braider - daughter's was lent to a friend and is coming back this week! Besides, have been too busy chasing snaps in the bay!

    Mondy is still 2.5 weeks away so plenty of time for leader construction.....

    BTW when you say 40lb twisties is this using 40lb mono or 20lb mono doubled over for 40lb twistie?

  10. #40

    Re: AFC 2008 Monduran round - Leaders

    Johnny,Cy and Kerrin,

    From my perspective there was definatley not malice intended with my repsonses, only judging by what I see. It is know that the editing process with filming can make things different and 'attractive' to TV...thats show business, and the desired effect of AFC which we enjoy.

    Now, I cant deny that every sitation is different, we all do different things. I can only compare the boys in JM's DVD to the boys in AFC and there were remarkable differences in fish fighting demeanure IMO. I had the previlege (as did Chris) to fish the entire ABT along side these lads...and yes they are head and shoulders above everybody with fishfinding/landing and natural ability. I spose what I am saying is some of the mistakes were quite uncharicteristic for the lads, and Kerrin still did enough to win, Cy close up which really proves their capabilites. I am thinking certain pressures from the AFC production hindered their thinking on the day, particulary with one partner in particular who tends to have a dominating effect. Agian, its easy to sit back and pick it to bits from the armchair, cameras dont show everything....but what they did produce was not the brilliant fishing styles I have seen seen from these truely skilled lads. Again there is no malice intended, just a genuine discussion which I intend to learn something from.

    At least their drags sounded smoother than Motty's!

    Cheers Steve

    PS: As for twisted leaders...cant comment....never used one. never needed to.

  11. #41

    Re: AFC 2008 Monduran round - Leaders

    If twisted leaders were a fish catching improvement there would be many more anglers using them. When we look at ABT results for hours fished for fish boated it becomes very ugly. ( Yes, I know , not everyone is/was using twisteds). In the existing lake barra fisheries that vary from around 10-25+ yrs old, there is little clue needed to be dropped that lure presentation is near the top of the list of must do's in pressured waterways. Starting with rigging, there does need to be a lot of refinement from anglers if they wish to lift their catch rates, especially in the likes of ABT events with horribly frightening figures of hours fished per barra landed. Stats show that if an angler landed less than 1 fish per round of event they would end up in the top ten overall. That is a bit scarey when it is broken down to about one barra landed roughly every 10 hours in competition time. I believe it is time anglers took another road when it comes to connecting fish to lines,,,,especially when it counts. If the fishing is easy, fencing wire on your lure will hook barra and we don't think twice about questioning our rigging, or our lure. When it is tough, or touchy, leader choice, lure balance and advanced lure presentation will help no end. If ya mate beside you is catching none also we don't automatically have to think it is a tough day.
    Harro- light wire leaders.
    Wilhelm- single mono or fine wire the last time I looked.
    Myself- single mono.
    Taylors- single mono.
    3 out of these 5 anglers are guides who need to put clients onto barra in less than 5-6 hrs, amongst teaching anglers to cast and to retrieve.
    The other two are ranked one and two in the country.
    Other key variables are at play, but a coincidence with leader choice stands well clear. We can all take our own track, but I wouldn't bother typing this if it wasn't to paint a helpful picture. Sometimes stats and future prognosis needs to displayed. Our fisheries won't get easier, we need to adapt to what is being created.
    Johnny

  12. #42

    Re: AFC 2008 Monduran round - Leaders

    Straight up ........ No one is saying that twisted leaders are a panecea for leader failures ....... far from it - Most who construct their own are fully aware that it is a compromised approach........ A calculated gamble that your approach will not adversely affect your strike rate!
    Sure ...... you can stay with a single mono leader system based on what the legends of impoundment barra fishing use - then roll the dice & see what happens .......... Most of us have! - Then some of us have looked for something else! ........... Some just except that blown leaders are a part of barra fishing! ..... MAYBE !
    I for one do not think that there is a definitive answer ........ only what compromise or gamble you are willing to except

    Cheers

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  13. #43

    Re: AFC 2008 Monduran round - Leaders

    haven't seen this episode and i'm aware that with television comes criticism but the guys fishing on the AFC are there for a reason...they've worked hard to be there and i for one am not going to slay them, especially on a public forum

    regarding leader choice...well for every pro there'll be a con but i'm with johnny, twisties are old news, been down that road a few years ago buts its mono FC or nylon/copolymer for me now depending on presentation/technique. again not the be all and end all but has yet to let me down and more importantly i'm confident in the system

    regarding rod angles...well that could go on for a long time...a jumping barra is a disorientated barra, and sometimes that is what is required..i have encouraged barra to jump when fishing in close proximity to structure, i would rather have some chance of landing the fish then getting bricked in a flash...there is other variables, high rod angles can also shift the load higher on the blank, further cushioning the voilent headshakes of a jumping barra reducing the chance of pulled hooks...especially with zero stretch braided lines too much pressure is just as bad as not enough...

  14. #44

    Re: AFC 2008 Monduran round - Leaders

    Last year l spent close to 250 Days on Awoonga and l tested many types of Leaders .. ..Last year l caught the odd Awoonga Barra ... Some months the score was quite high....By the above comments if l used single leaders there would be no fish left...So just to help you guys out l shall continue to use Twisted leaders.......lol

  15. #45

    Re: AFC 2008 Monduran round - Leaders

    it seems the conclusion was drawn by the airmchair experts that the use of twisties would have changed the outcome...there's far too many variables involved to draw a conclusion like that..as is being seen in this thread there will always be a difference of opinion..

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