getting caught under sized fish..outcome

[jelifish]

Just to add a bit more debate to the discussion. Many years ago I was pulled up at the Tewantin boat ramp by fisheries, not over size but fish id. I had several large grassy sweetlip which the fisheries officer was adamant were red throat(tricky snapper) but which are veery easily separated by shape and colour as well as a discussion then over moses perch and fingermark(golden snapper). As far as he was concerned, moses perch caught outside were fingermark.

[NAGG]

Its a bit hard to keep up with the rules when they are being changed regularly and not being clearly passed on to the public. Does the poor old Dad who just wants to wet a line with his son have to search the internet and download all he can find and digest it everytime he wants to go out.
Geez just look at estuary cod that anyone can catch in a creek , its is now or will soon be a coral reef fin fish, so if you catch him during the three 9 day closures north of bundaberg you have to release him but if you catch it south of bundaberg where there isnt any closure you dont need to worry about it.
I bet most people couldnt tell an oversize poddy mullet from an undersize sea mullet. Geez, I had a fisheries guy carefully scutinize a large poddy I had one day just to make sure it wasnt a sea mullet. And he took ages before he was sure it wasnt and he reckoned that if it had been a sea mullet he would have booked me. Learn all the rules
Strewth, turn it up

I've got in my hand a brouchure "FRESHWATER RECREATIONAL FISHING IN NSW .... Rules & Regulation Summary" now on the bottom right hand corner is written
" Some bag & size limits are currently under review & may change during the life of this publication. It is the responsibility of fishers to ensure they are operating within the law at all time"

So as you can see ..... Even in a current publication you are being warned to keep up with the latest rule changes ........ based on the wording I dont think you can expect any grace from fisheries

As for fish identification ....... If you are not sure - let it go!

Chris

[oldboot]

I note that QLD government has recently puiblished new versions of the boating and fisheries guides, plainly knowing that size and bag limits and a variety of catch conditions would be changed during this year.

In fact changes from in inshore fisheries review have already been published.

By march all the size and bag limit tables will be useless

considerimng both of these publications are single point references this is a real concern

Size and bag limits will change across the board.

The moreton bay marine park closures are not addressed

The whole snapper issue is not mentioned

This is the first thing I have heard of the estury cod thing But I can understand why.

I have never seen any specific mention (in the above 2 books) nor a diagram for the permanent fishing and anchoring ban out in front of the leads comming into the port of brisbane.

There does need to be a single place printed reference on all these issues, but the boating and fishing guide will be next to useless for at least 12 months.

As for the fingermark/moses perch thing. that is a real trap. ( the same with mackerel..).......To a certain extent I can see the point that anything caught outside is likely to be the bigger fish but a correct identification comes down to counting spines on the dorsal fin and looking at the teeth......you would realy have to know your stuff to argue this one.

As for grass sweetlip......the trap here is that it is an emperor and not a sweetlip and many of the books mention this fact and that it is a trap.

cheers

edit
I've just checked a few facts and there is some... discussion as to what the grassy is...sweetlip or emperor... either way id does not matter in QLD it has it's own size and bag limit.

ern grant recons its a sweetlip..... thats good enough for me.

[FNQCairns]

Its quite a situation you're cooking up. And as has been said already, if will come down to the parties concerned. If the fisherman or woman, is genuine about not knowing that the catch was illegal and can prove and actively show that he/she is trying to rectify the situation by releasing that undersize fish in the bucket then chances are they'll get off with a warning. If you are a pr!ck to the officers, swearing and abusing, chances are you'll get stuck with 2 or 3 fines instead of the simple warning that could be achieved through rational conversation. But in saying that, I'm sure you will get the bad egg occasionally who is only out for a power trip to take your money!

The unfortunate thing with NSW fisheries is that out of all the illegal fishing instances they came across in the last year, only 5.5% of them were fined. The other 94.5% were issued warnings or had their gear partially (either the rod that was directly attributed to the fish or worst case scenario all their gear, car/boat/rods/spearguns/wetsuits etc) confiscated. Is this a good thing? I personally don't agree with the confiscation of gear as the level of ignorance to the law would be higher, the cheaper the gear is (supposedly). The once a year fisherman having his $50 rod and reel combo confiscated because he thought he had a record catch of undersize bream would hardly bat an eyelid at the fine, whereas the bloke with the stella and Egrel rod would be much more devastated and effected (but should be more likely to have a full comprehension of the law). Different convictions for the same offence?

Another interesting note, that comes straight from the horses mouth, is that the fish measuring devices issued by fisheries such as lobster measurers, stickers and such, are 'to be used as a guide only' and as such can not be used as evidence should a case arise. Fisheries can, use either a micrometer or a set of Vernier calipers to check size limits. So that fish that was JUST legal when you bent it in the right way becomes .1 of a mm undersize and as such is an illegal catch. This has been used recently in a court case against a Pro lobster fisherman in NSW who has been charged over having a lobster that was 0.3mm undersize!


Basically, what it comes down to, is fish using the CYA principle. COVER YOUR A$$! Don't keep a fish if it is just on legal, don't keep that extra fish over your bag limit in the bucket alive, and most of all KEEP UP TO DATE ON THE REGS!
Its not (but it bloody should be) up to fisheries officers to come around to your house, politely sit you down over a coffee and update you on each and every change in the regulations.

This astounds me, what does it mean? Can they confiscate property without any further legal process, just " hi that fish looks illegal, on your bike we are driving your car home"

OR does the paragraph actually mean that fishery's officers are promoting every case they come across to a court level for future departmental existance justifications except for a cases where their evidence is so dodgee that they decide to fine/confiscate instead to save loosing a case they wouldn't win anyway.

Would love to see the warning stats at least, to make more some sense of it.

cheers fnq

[PaulMark]

A bit like the fisho who posts a pic of a fish (gilled and gutted) and asks for an ID and if it is good eating!!!!!!!

Are there really that many people out there who are deliberately ignorant of the law, or just plain arrogant about their way of doing things.

FFS if you are going to play a sport, (and i include fishing in this), the least you could do is learn the rules. Unless you are one of those people that likes to find ways of cheating, or think that you are above the law.

Greg

Unfortunately there are,Greg.I've heard it said around here regarding boating regs,"Thank God you don't need to worry about that shit round here".Excuse me!,Yes you bloody do,cos the bloke coming the other way is relying on you to Know what you're doing.This atitude is more and more prevalent these days so you can understand the officers being toey.Sorry to hijack the thread there,
Paulo

[struktcha_man]

Possession also includes the number of fish you have in your freezer at home. If you have say 5 of one kind and 5 is the limit to possess but you have more at home, you're in the wrong. I have heard of some blokes being busted for this but they were well know for their underhanded dealings. The total number in your freezer could go against you, something to also think about. It's not likely to happen but it is possible.

Eagle

are you sure this is right?

"Bag Limit" usually refers to your catch on the day ..

or else it would be called "fridge limit"

(this thread has turned into quite a big read )

cheers

[ifishcq1]

Struktcha_man

Eagle is spot on, it is in possession

Cheers

SL

[crabbie]

So it’s possession word being used.



As he stated in his defense that the sea is there for all to use by god and no human had rights as dictating terms and conditions over it..He won.

I LOVE IT
Crabbie

[mangomick]

I've got in my hand a brouchure "FRESHWATER RECREATIONAL FISHING IN NSW .... Rules & Regulation Summary" now on the bottom right hand corner is written
" Some bag & size limits are currently under review & may change during the life of this publication. It is the responsibility of fishers to ensure they are operating within the law at all time"

So as you can see ..... Even in a current publication you are being warned to keep up with the latest rule changes ........ based on the wording I dont think you can expect any grace from fisheries

As for fish identification ....... If you are not sure - let it go!

Chris

Thats very good. The fishereries know who owns a boat or in the case of NSW who holds a fishing licence. Just how often have you been sent a notification advising of recent changes to catch or size limits.
I can tell you now up here it doesnt happen. It seems to me they (the goverment and its agencies) are taking the lazy/easy/ cheapest way out and making a small financial killing catching people for breaking rules that only a QC knows exist.
How can you keep up with changes that have occurred if you arent told the changes have occurred. Its a bit like training someone then asking them if theres anything they need to know that you havent told them yet.

[goat boy]

Interesting thread. For anyone fishing in NSW waters and wondering about 'possession' and or 'bag limits'....here it is quoted from DPI (NSW)

Possession limit

A possession limit is the maximum number of fish that a person is allowed to have in their possession at any time. Possession limits provide a useful tool to discourage illegal sales of fish by constraining recreational fishers from accumulation commercial quantities of fish. For all saltwater species, the daily bag limit is the possession limit and it applies to all areas of the state.


end quote



DPIs list their fishing regs and rules online. It doesn't take long to peruse whats relevant to what you will be doing...

[spears]

DPIs list their fishing regs and rules online



But not every house hold has a computer to go on line.
What about the elderly that have no use for one or claim they are too old to learn all this high tech stuff.
How are they to keep up with changes..??

[goat boy]

Well, this was aimed more at some of the posts on this thread. If you are on Ausfish then there's certainly no reason why you don't go to your relevant DPI site and check the rules out.
I agree, and would *assume* that DPI officers would use discretion with each separate case, same as coppers, anyone who has dealt with coppers more than a few times on the same issue/s will know that personalities and how they're feeling at that moment can play a part in the severity of punishment (if any) handed out.
In the end though, it's no different to any other law we are bound by, ignorance is no excuse but sometimes helps in mitigation.

[BOMBER]

Spears,

Your question was answered if you are in possesion of live fish or dead fish whether it be for 1 second or 1 day irrespective whether you let it go in front of the fisheries officer, if he wants to charge you under the act as it stands today he can, that simple and thats a typical reply from a lawyer, lucky we don't all think this way and if he got off with that sort of defense me thinks he had mates on the job

The Bomber

[Wahoo]

DPIs list their fishing regs and rules online



But not every house hold has a computer to go on line.
What about the elderly that have no use for one or claim they are too old to learn all this high tech stuff.
How are they to keep up with changes..??

pick up the phone and then get them to mail out the papers.

Daz

[mangomick]

pick up the phone and then get them to mail out the papers.

Daz

Yeah thats fine but we need a crystal ball to know that the copy we already have ,that we think is current, has now changed.
What about your average mum and dad fisho here who isnt a member of ausfish but who just wants to wet a line occaisionally on a week end with his kids.
He catches an estuary cod off the bank of a creek and how the hell is he supposed to know its now classed as a coral reef fish and it needs its fin cut off and it was alright to catch it last week in bundaberg while on holidays but this week he's camping in Gladstone but its the nine day closure and its now an offence. What a lot of bull$hite