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  1. #31
    Ausfish Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    East of Rockhampton

    Re: Dodgy radio etiquette

    Dave H
    I will concede that the use of the word "Out" as you have stated is correct. However, I was taught my radio procedure by ............ Coast Guard and I will endevour to stay with what they taught me. I do have my MROCP and I use the appropriate language as needed. The ..........Coast Guard have great respect for me and the manner in which I operate. If anyone wants to get picky, then let me ask, how many of you keep a log of all radio calls both received and transmitted by your boat. Also, how many boat operators having a MROCP keep a copy of the MROH on board their boat? Keep it simple, dont argue over minor points but follow common sense. The worst dialogue to hear on the radio (on any channel) is the filthy foul language that so many boaties insist on using. When such language is broadcast the ........... Coast Guard comes down heavily on such people.
    Keep it clean and simple.
    May you all enjoy a truly wonderful and happy new year.

    Eagle

  2. #32

    Re: Dodgy radio etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
    When you are out on the water and talking to the Coast Guard or VMR, you must never end your call with "over and out". Using the word "out" indicates that you are immediately turning off your radio and will not be responding to any further calls addressed to you. To use the word "out" will definitely bring confusion to the Coast Guard or VMR. The word "over" is generally used only when reception is poor and the call can't be defined as ended. The carrier wave of the radio almost always indicates when the call has ended by the loud click that is transmitted.
    A huge amount for the responsibility of bad protocol over the radio goes to the TV. A particularly poor example is "Sea Patrol". The dumb blonde uses "over and out" all the time. Donít get caught out by these stupid programs.
    Using the correct protocol with the (marine) radio develops enormous confidence and respect in you as a skipper by your passengers. If you don't know the correct radio procedures, join up with the Coast Guard or whoever and get your licence for VHF. If you have a radio installed in your boat, it should be turned on all the time to the appropriate channel to moniter any distress call or instructions given by the Coast Guard or VMR. Professionalism should equate to safety afloat, well it should be so.
    Eagle
    You concede you were wrong do you? I reckon you have egg all over your face. Are you blonde by any chance?

    Jeremy
    "The underlying spirit of angling is that the skill of the angler is pitted against the instinct and strength of the fish and the latter is entitled to an even chance for it's life."
    (Quotation from the rules of the Tuna Club Avalon, Santa Catalina, U.S.A.)

    Apathy is the enemy

  3. #33

    Re: Dodgy radio etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
    Coast Guard comes down heavily on such people.
    Eagle
    Really? Got any evidence of this? I have never heard of any action being taken by any organization, police, CG, VMR etc against any marine radion user whether for lack of use certificate or foul language. The only way to identify someone would be if they gave an associate member number. I would love to hear of any cases.

    Jeremy
    "The underlying spirit of angling is that the skill of the angler is pitted against the instinct and strength of the fish and the latter is entitled to an even chance for it's life."
    (Quotation from the rules of the Tuna Club Avalon, Santa Catalina, U.S.A.)

    Apathy is the enemy

  4. #34

    Re: Dodgy radio etiquette

    My limited understanding of this mater is that it is the letter that is important. The three things that come to mind a R, DE and CQ. R = Aknowledgement, DE = Announcing your stations and CQ = broadcast to all stations. Translated into the current intenationally adopted phonetic alphabet that would be Romeo, Delta Echo and Charlie Quebec. I was tough this doing other radio certifications so it may not apply to marine.

    Now if you are a brit using your old phonetic alphabet, you would be familiar with robert instead of romeo, and if you were a yank on your old phonetic alphabet then it would be roger, not romeo.

    Oh, and by the way I beleive all of this comes from the old morse code days. R, CQ, DE, DX etc.


  5. #35

    Re: Dodgy radio etiquette

    Here is the list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse_Code_Abbreviations

    Head down to R = recieved. I knew I had heard it somewhere before!


  6. #36

    Re: Dodgy radio etiquette

    As has been mentioned by others there are different radio protocols on different radio systems and there are all sorts of variations.......there are good reasons for the way the marine protocol is set up, so we should stick to it.

    One example is that we speak the called station first because there many stations that could be called. and under different call signs and licences.
    In many other systems we speak our own station first because it is assumed that there are few basses controlling the traffic and many mobiles


    As for the reason for Romeo......it is a very distict sound having three strong vowel sounds and is hard to mistake for other words.

    Both Robert and Rodger have problems as there are many words that ryme and the vowel sounds are not strong vowel sounds........when inteligibility sufferes it is the consinents that are degraded first and the strong vowel sounds last.

    it might be trivia to some, but it is the reason why Rodger and Robert are dead... long live Romeo.

    As for the two letter acronyms....I think the only one recomended for use in marine circles is DE....... but most people use "this is".

    I think there is a concerted effort to encourage the use of plain english on the marine bands these days instead of abreviations and acronyms.

    I hear many of the VMR bases using "Romeo", but quite a few people simply say "Recieved".

    The word "out" realy should have little use in marine radio as it is assumed that a continuous radio watch is kept on all commercial shipping unless tied up and uncrewed.....indeed it can be argued that any vessel with radio fitted should be keeping a radio watch when at sea.

    So it is probably more correct to say " ceasing radio watch" or "logging off".

    Even if you only run 27Mhz it is well worth doing the 1 day radio course, you will learn stuff you want to know.

    cheers

  7. #37

    Re: Dodgy radio etiquette

    Another version I have heard "Back"

  8. #38

    Re: Dodgy radio etiquette

    As I understand it, it is the Internationally agreed phonetic alphabet. (Otherwise known as the Nato Phonetic Alpabet).

    Marine Radio is not bound by geographical boundarys and a comon understanding needs to be found where even non english speaking persons can understand other poeople from different nationalities and comunicate the most basic but critical of information via phonetic alphabet with poor comunications etc.

    Yes for sure Roger will normally be very easily recognised by people of my age group from having watched many movies over many years.
    However, will kids leaving school, I dont know? It needs to be standardised, it should be standardised. Would I ever criticise some one in the real world for using the wrong terminology...... not in reality.... unless it was a mate of mine and I would give him hell for fun :-)

    I have seen NZ and RNLI MROCP type handbooks and they say Romeo. If you sit a radio license and answer the questions the way you feel like and not the way you are taught, expect that the risks are greater not to pass your certificate.

    At the end of the day, the most important thing is that in your time of need you can get your message out quickly and understood.... little else matters but correct proceedures and protocols will go a LONG WAY to improve your chances of survival in a bad situation.

    "Romeo that from me"

    Cheers Lloyd

    OUT

  9. #39

    Re: Dodgy radio etiquette

    The use of the work "back" is a lazy abreviation of the CB radio term "back to you".........as can be expected radio protocol on CB radio is very sloppy or non existent.....that is fine on CB radio because it is not a "life critical" communication system.

    The important thing to understand about marine radio is that it IS a LIFE CRITICAL means of communication and not an ammusement or pass time..... there are some users who fail to understand this.

    The rules and protocols for marine radio are the same for the recreational user, the large commercial user and for emergency servicies.

    The marine radio operators hand book expresse itsself very clearly in one sentence.

    "In the interests of accuracy, brevity and clarity it is sound practice for operators to use the standard vocabulary when possible."

    Slack, sloppy or ignorant radio protocal may cause difficulty with important life saving communication and may cost a life.

    The protocols and specific words recommended are there for very good reasons, we should all learn them and use them. Use of non marine radio terms and language is nothing more than a display of ignorance.

    Remember on the same channel you are using there are professional mariners in craft of all sizes and types.

    A good example I heard recently was an exchange between an incomming bulk freighter and an outgoing pleasure craft in the brisbane leads.
    the freighter master called up the outgoing sail craft to clarify passing arrangemnents in the channel.
    All exchanges were according to protocol, decently and properly done.
    The master was making sure the sail craft was aware of the situatuin and that they would pass port to port.

    We sould be able to communicate with any vessel, be understood and respected.

    As for the enforcement of radio licencing, it is not the role of the police, boating and fisheries patroll of any of the rescue organisations.
    Enforcement of radio frequency matters is a commonwealth responsibility.


    cheers

  10. #40

    Re: Dodgy radio etiquette

    Well i've been using Roger for the last 30 years, and its quite distinct it what its supposed to mean, so i cannot see me changing.
    Roger is precise and not misunderstood.
    The same with the word Out, it again is precise and tells the operator on the other end that you have finished your transmission.
    Wether you list out on the allocated frequencies or not is your choice.
    The abbreviation DE, (this is) is only used when writing in a log vmr de xxxx
    or used in the transmission of morse code.
    Wether using Roger or Romeo is your choice, it or both are still telling the operator on the other end you have acknowledged his call or message.
    The words (logging off) should only be use when either back at the ramp, or anchored for the night and not intending to move till you log back on.
    regards

  11. #41

    Re: Dodgy radio etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by oldboot View Post
    The word "out" realy should have little use in marine radio as it is assumed that a continuous radio watch is kept on all commercial shipping unless tied up and uncrewed.....indeed it can be argued that any vessel with radio fitted should be keeping a radio watch when at sea.

    So it is probably more correct to say " ceasing radio watch" or "logging off".
    "ceasing radio watch" or "logging off" do not cover ending a conversation. "out" is used to end a conversation, whereas "over" is used to end a sentence where you are expecting a reply.

    Is there some word other than "out" that you propose covers the ending of a conversation between two stations?

    Jeremy
    "The underlying spirit of angling is that the skill of the angler is pitted against the instinct and strength of the fish and the latter is entitled to an even chance for it's life."
    (Quotation from the rules of the Tuna Club Avalon, Santa Catalina, U.S.A.)

    Apathy is the enemy

  12. #42

    Re: Dodgy radio etiquette

    I am now totally confused and might have the wrong impression but surely these short radio courses are not teaching students to say 'Delta Echo' in lieu of, 'This is'.

    And why is there so much confusion about 'Out'?

    Where did 'Robert' come from? I have never heard of R = Robert. The Yanks, Poms and Australian forces (army, navy and air forces) nor merchant marine have ever used it as far as I know.

    I cannot think of any service that has used it and have monitored a lot of domestic and foreign circuits.

    Aviation services governed by ICAO have never used Robert.

    I'd be interested to know if it has been used somewhere just for historical curiosity.

  13. #43

    Re: Dodgy radio etiquette

    There seems to be a greater empasis on complete phrases and being properly understood on the marine bands rather than the use of abreviations and codes.

    I think they (whoever they are) have tried to keep it simple. There is no "Q" code, 10 code, 100 code or extensive list of abreviations like there are on other systems.

    We realy should be able to hear what is going on and if the exchange is complete by what is said.

    The use of "over" is important because it tells the other party that you are ready for them to reply.

    the use of "OUT" has a specific meaning......."I am ceasing transmission on this frequency"

    There is an example of the proper use on page 11 and 12 of the VHF manual.

    If you are using another channel and returning to the calling channel it is appropriate to use "out".

    But you would make sure you were understood by saying "returning to channel 16 and standing by your name OUT"

    As I mentioned before there is an asumption that you are keeping a radio watch so the appropriate term is " standing by".

    As I mentioned before " ceasing radio watch" or "logging off" means precisely that......you are turning off the radio or going home.

    But again there is more of an expectation of placing "whatever in context".

    VMR wherever, this is your name returned to the ramp mark me as returned please, over.

    Your name this is VMR wherever you are listed as returned over.

    VMR this is your name logging off. or ceasing radio watch or just thankyou.

    what is important is the context.

    On the marine bands we seem to have plenty of time to be understood, we use both call signs on every transmission..... many other radio systems don't.
    On the marine bands there is an empasis on complete phrases.... many radio systems use as few words and as many abreviations and possible.

    So the meanings and use of words such as rodger and out are far less important than the rest of the procedure.

    I don't think we will encounter DE much and no the radio course I went to did not encourage its use........The comment was that DE or delta echo may be used by overseas shipping..........problay by crusty old types that still have twitchy fingers from punching it out in morse.

    cheers

  14. #44

    Re: Dodgy radio etiquette

    do your radio licence its the law

  15. #45

    Re: Dodgy radio etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by kokomo View Post
    do your radio licence its the law
    Do your drivers licence it's the Law......illegal...is speeding or throwing an illegal U turn or j walking or.....

    cheers fnq



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