Does el-cheapo do the job..?

[oldboot]

Ahhh well here we are again.

There will always be those who have plenty of money to spend.. ....I don't think that will ever be me .

I do not think I will ever have sufficient disposable income to afford spending $500 on one outfit.

That said I loathe and detest bottom price point carp.

I am a value concious shopper......I have been called a vulture to my face in a local tackle shop.

I don't mind if it isnt the latest, benn on the shelf a few years, or has the odd scratch.

I buy lower middle shelf stuff when it is reduced.
Am i fighting marlin or meter pluss barra......only in my dreams.

But due to my tight @#$& buying habits I can afford to own a good range of equipment that is approprite and specific for the task.
AND
If I break a rod or donate a lure to a snag... I don't cry tears of blood.

It comes down to what you can afford and what is appropriate.

cheers

[1lastcast]

########## ive heard some bull crap in my time but you take the cake .

[1lastcast]

Hi,
I think there's so many deciding factors when it comes to buying gear.

Rods are definately all about feel. And every one is different when it comes to what they prefer.
A $25 rod can feel better than a $300 rod depending on the type of fishing you are going to do, and what you're rigged up to catch.

In the 70's BMW couldn't sell cars in Australia, no one was interested.
They put the price up alot, and sales went through the roof.

With 8000 customers I can clearly say most people buy for the bling factor, 50% will buy on price, 20% will buy for fuction, 30% will only feel like they have done the right thing if they paid a high price tag.

As far as what's involved in the engineering and the cost difference between making a $1000 reel and a $50 reel it's no where near that much of a cost difference.

It's all about ##### size, Some young gun with a 5 min stamina buys a $1000 reel and a red Ferrari.
The guy with a nagging wife and 3 kids buys a $150 reel and a commodore wagon, he use to buy $1000 reels and red sportscars, but now he has matured, and become a little bit wiser.

Fact ( fishing gear with red sells better than any other colour to young guns)
Fact ( Darker less obvious colours sell more to guys in their 40's +)

So Does el-cheapo do the job..?

Ans: If you have a small willy it doesn't
If you have a big willy with a proven track record for success it does.

fair dinkum mate who do you think you are coming on here insulting us saying if you buy expensive gear you have a small willy / dont you have some warranty work to do on that cheap crap you sell

[banshee]

............As far as what's involved in the engineering and the cost difference between making a $1000 reel and a $50 reel it's no where near that much of a cost difference...............

Depends I suppose on weather your the company who has sunk the money into the research and develpement to see what materials/engineering will cope or the company who is following the leader/leaders.
As for the rest of the post....I agree with Monostretcho.

[oldboot]

I was wondering how long this would take to get heated .


There is some truth in what tuftackle says...... but only some.

I have handled and looked at( apart) some of the top line reels and there is no comparison with the lowere order stuff.... but do they catch more fish .

I've heard this " they all come out of the same factory" BS before.....in a variety of markets.

The chineese and the tiawanese before them and the japanese before them have always been very good at both coppying and working to specification
Much of what we buy comes out of the same or similar factories yes... but the truth is far more complicated than that.
I know a number of blokes who import different things from asia and china....and believe me you need to know what you are doing. some of these yellow fellows do very nice work, others make carp, others still will give you any work standard you specify.

I have seen a cheap reel with nylon bushes, that could just as easily have been stanless ball bearings.

OH and price and margin.......in many cases manufacture cost and sale cost are not very closely related.....there will be huge margins in some fishing items.

As for increasing the price to get more sales.......yep lots of people do it.
There are a geat many people who believe you get what you pay for and it is simple as that.....in many markets cheep items will not sell... bump up the price and they walk out the door.

cheers

[Morston]

Here you are

This is where much of the dealing is done....have a look through this site:

http://importer.alibaba.com/buyeroff...ng_Tackle.html

If you like you can have it made with your own brand name on it....provided you are prepared to buy hundreds.

[the baker]

I cant afford to buy cheap sh#t I keep busting it .

Dave

[TuffTackle]

MONOSTRETCHO, who said I was talking about you ?

If you know where you stand on the issue why be so defensive ?

Anyway, my point is price does not mean perfection.

Also If we are talking stand up, (8kg - 12kg of drag absolute max)
You don't need to spend a $1000 to get to that.

If you're talking chairs and harnesses, yes you need to spend the money, even the 30,50,80,130W copies are expensive (same factory price as brand names)

But if someone can sell a copy for $350 and make a living, then $1800 is too much, the components come from the same factories (fact)

As far as (alot of stuff being made in the same factories) I know it's true.

Ask yourself how come I can sell a BayPac rod for $300 with $600 of components on it ? and make a living.

The wholesale price of 2 Baypac butts is more than the cost of my whole rod, from the top 4 rod manufacturers, who incidently make brand rods that are also top shelf price, and I can sell uglystics for $10 and make a living, from the same factory.

I think the point of the original question is Does el-cheapo do the job ?

For 8kg of drag required for stand up (YES)
For stand up rods (YES) as any rod can be broken no matter what price.

Is a Copy Penn international the same quality as a Penn international (YES) they use the same components, and are assembled by the same labourers.

Is a single brand name bent butt on it's own worth $300 (NO)
Is a rod with a blank from the same factory as Shimano or alot of other brands with a lesser known name with $600 (perceived components on it) worth $300
Of course it is.

So is it possible to spend alot less and still have quality, of course it is.

Is it possible to spend less and buy crap, of course it is.

Should you speak without knowledge, No you shouldn't.

[TuffTackle]

And a word of knowledge in addition.

Never try to import a BRAND name product.

Customs has a list of protected brands, that if imported by anyone other than the distributor, those goods are to be destoyed as "fakes"

You pay for brand protection, this stops protected brands from having their markets exploited by the import and re-sale at a much lower price.

So for offers on Alibaba and made in china etc, for brands, you CANNOT import them without distributor rights, they might not even make it out of the country sending them.

For the 100's of sets of calaway golf clubs desrtoyed by Aust customs each year as "fakes" they are genuine, just imported by the wrong guy.

Non commercial quantities sent Via EMS courier (post) can get through, if customs doesn't open the package for inspection.

[spears]

DIAWA...
so what happened is this. i added a small bead of grease to the screw hole. done that a thousand times with other reels. just as i gave the screw driver that last turn, i heard a "snap." i was horrified to see that the frame had cracked at the screw hole. um, $200 worth of horrified, i might add. that's the cost of a new frame. i spoke to another guy that does alot of reel work and he says he had the same thing happen, only he used corrosion x on the screw thread.

so what i think happened is this. the tolerances on the threads of the screw holes are so tight that there's no room for air, excess grease or excess oil to squeeze out when tightening down the screws. this causes a crack at this one weak spot of our $200 frame. a guy sent this reel for me to service and there's no way that it's going back broken. i just have to eat this one.

VAN STAAL..
Just pushing it to the limit !!!!

SALTIGA
this guy has had this happen twice..he no longer uses saltiga


Not even the expensive stuff is bullet proof..



Most people think this way..
Common sense says If I spend more on a reel or rod I should get better quality and last longer..True ?

So lets buy a reel for $450 in a 4000-5000 size..
Now go and buy another reel 4000-5000 size for $900 like a -saltiga spin or stella

Now pull these reels apart and lay them out side by side.
Try and show me where’s the extra $450 in parts in value.
You can't.

[gaintsquid]

You can either spend a little alot, or alot a little if your serious about your fishing and do it alot and flog your gear IMO you will enjoy yourself more, have less troubles and probly end up saving money if you buy quality expensive gear for the job. But if your a laid back just go fishing to get out of the house and relax and hope to jag something as a bonus, then i reckon cheap gear does the job just fine.

[PNG1M]

QUOTE from Old Boot:
There are a geat many people who believe you get what you pay for and it is simple as that.....in many markets cheep items will not sell... bump up the price and they walk out the door.

cheers[/quote]

Aint that the truth..!!

Are we talking about if el-cheapo can do the job? Ok, yeh in some cases maybe but depending on the application.

A ten year old rod n reel that you buy for fifteen bucks from a garage sale will probably catch you a few small bream off the back jetty - if that's what you're intending to do. But it most likely won't land you that 90cm flathead that just happened to be passing by and was interested in your prawn.

Back to Old Boots quote: I mentioned before that I was recommending a beach fishing outfit for my mate whose budget was $150 bucks. I found a Shakespeare Ugly Stick Saphire Plus 10' beach rod for $39.00 that was probably more than adequate for my mates 'one off' fishing sorties.

But did I suggest he buy it? NO, mainly because I thought it was too cheap.
If they had cranked the price up to $75 maybe I would've been interested.

So instead, I suggested the 10' Silstar Crystal Powertip for $82 bucks as the extra cost seemed to add up to better quality....and maybe that's true as both rods had different specs.

But ultimately, the $39 bit put me off and I labelled the rod (sight unseen) as just a bit too el-cheapo (and therefore probably el-tacko or el-crappo)!!

At twice the price, the Powertip (again sight unseen) seemed to justify the extra bucks by being lighter and with the graphite glass mix and a great advertising blurb etc. Hmmm, have I done the right thing by my mate!?

What does he know about rod specs? Absolutely nought...he just wants a cheap set-up so he can join us in some fishing. The rod'll probably spend most of its future in his garage collecting dust - and I'm sure a $39 rod is up to that.

Hmmm...if elcheapo's not a problem to him (and ignorance is bliss) maybe the $39 model would be better. At least then he could afford a Penn Spinfisher at $99 to come in under his $150 budget.

Anyway, I think Old Boot is right. People sometimes feel comfortable paying more than the 'rock bottom' price as it kind of satisfies the psychological 'comfort zone' by leading you to think you bought better quality...and hence avoided being ripped off by buying el-cheapo "cr#p"


Or...maybe I can suggest to my mate that he buys a Daiwa Saltiga Balistic beach rod for $699.00 for his one-off trips (with no guarantee that it'll catch him fish) and watch his jaw hit the ground. He could probably buy three years supply of fillets for that price!

I could try to convince him that he'll enjoy his fishing more if he paid that much for the rod. He could chuck a $60 reel on it to compensate!?

NB: No disrespect intended to those avid beach fishing enthusiasts out there who do have the top shelf gear. Just look at my baitcasting tackle - geeze - I cringe sometimes. I've even got a Daiwa Millionnaire 253CVZ that I bought 6 months ago and its still in the box. I know all about it!!!

[Morston]

Stella Artois Lager used to be advertised in the UK with the slogan:

"Reassuringly expensive"...........and it was expensive.

It was also awful stuff (depending on your taste) but the advert worked.

There is something 'reassuring' about buying expensive stuff but it is as much a psychological phenomenon as a reality and, as such, possibly makes some fishermen more effective and helps them enjoy their fishing more.

It also appeals to the 'poseur' in us.....it looks 'good'.

None of that necessarily makes it better quality.

[Jungle Jim]

Non commercial quantities sent Via EMS courier (post) can get through, if customs doesn't open the package for inspection.

Not sure whether i’d agree entirely with the above....

I’ve bought plenty of stuff from overseas including US Nz and Japan had customs and quarantine go through a few parcels- always arrive in one piece. Quarantine will slip a little quarantine matters brochure in there to let you know what’s happening. Never had a problem.

Mind you i’m buying one item at a time. Bit hard for customs to drop the old “parallel import” on a one item import

Will continue to buy from what is essentially a global market....

JIM

[TuffTackle]

Hi spears,

so what i think happened is this. The tolerances on the threads of the screw holes are so tight that there's no room for air, excess grease or excess oil to squeeze out when tightening down the screws. This causes a crack at this one weak spot of our $200 frame. A guy sent this reel for me to service and there's no way that it's going back broken. I just have to eat this one.

What I found, and what I think the problem is with the Alloy housing cracking is it's probably not 6061 Aluminium.

To get certain colours in annodising aluminium you can only use certain alloys.
6061 (marine grade) is very expensive, so the chances of the manufacturer using an alloy specificly to get the right colour, rather than the correct engineering grade for the appplication is more likely.
Without doing a spectrographic analysis on the broken material, I can't say for sure, but It would seem to me that the female alloy thread has expanded (closed in size) due to corrosion (electrolysis).

I was quite amazed that a very small current generated by spinning bearings, could create electrolysis between indifferent materials in direct contact on fishing reels, but I have no doubts it does, form inhouse tests.

On a $5,000,000 pharmacuetical machine the threads would be re-tapped before assemmbly after service, because reliability is required to run that machine 24/7.
And shortcuts by not re-tapping tight threads, could cause downtime.

So I would suggest that when pulling down Aluminium reels, it would be a cheap investment to re-tap the threads and use new screws where possible.

Asia uses mainly metric fine pitches.

If the body alloy was 6061, which would have been the correct alloy for the body it probably wouldn't have happened, 6061 is amazingly resistant to electrolysis and incredibly strong, (doesn't become subject to material weakening after being exposed to an anode/cathode environment)

Simon