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Originally Posted by DEANO68
Matts got taste ...... Extra Dry
haa ha , yea rito i,lll bring up a box of new stubs next month,,does matt drink new.??any way great info ..cheers.....I thought I helped you Deano
Matts got taste ...... Extra Dry
Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
Teach him how to fish
& he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
TEAM MOJIKO
What do you want him to do Roo put the fish in the boat for you??? Sorry mate, met you before at the ramp and you seemed like a good bloke, but the less you think off the water the less you are going to think on. Forums are great but when you want everything spoon fed you can't adapt. But just my thoughts, hope you don't take it the wrong way, I sure it will be coz these forums always seem to give the wrong idea.really?what you might be missing is that the bulk of us Do Not spend 300+ days a year fishing. most of us might manage that in a lifetime! I don't have the time left in me to analyse which way my toes point while winding. I'm more concerned about keeping them horizontal, when they point at the sky its too late to have the penny dropping. Life is short, I'm getting on with it. You can either be helpful or not. your choice.
Cheers Scott
And before anyone starts anything no I'm not taking sides, its just what I think.
Chris, Chris, Chris
Why is your name allways associated with these threads that venture into the untamed realms of +3 pages lol
From my point, thanks for your thoughts, it all adds to the knowledge base
cheers
brian
Entertainment Brian ........ & maybe share & learn
You throw something out there - be it right or wrong ....... & you see what bites
We have a wealth of knowledge ..... & experiences hereabouts something there for everyone ..... GOTTA LUV THAT
Chris
Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
Teach him how to fish
& he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
TEAM MOJIKO
Maybe I should write "Nagg" on the side of my lures in black texta, seems to be plenty of hits, swipes and bites associated with that particular monikerEntertainment Brian ........ & maybe share & learn
You throw something out there - be it right or wrong ....... & you see what bites
We have a wealth of knowledge ..... & experiences hereabouts something there for everyone ..... GOTTA LUV THAT
Chris
& ...... having said that ( & not blowing up anyone's skirt)
the little time I've spent with Roo & mulled a few thing over ....... I can certainly say that he is a thoughtful fishoe ......
However like many of us .... you need peoples experiences along with your own to store in the old memory bank , so you can draw on it when the need arises ........... otherwise we struggle & dont develop
Chris
Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
Teach him how to fish
& he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
TEAM MOJIKO
Maybe I should write "Nagg" on the side of my lures in black texta, seems to be plenty of hits, swipes and bites associated with that particular moniker
If it works BrianI'm pretty thick skinned (head) ...... & not afraid to put it out there! ....... But like life , if you pop your head up , someone always wants to take it off !
fortunately ...... its usually the minority that feel the need to do so ( & aren't those types quickly discovered)
Chris
Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
Teach him how to fish
& he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
TEAM MOJIKO
Tis a funny old game this barra fishing mateIf it works Brian
fortunately ...... its usually the minority that feel the need to do so ( & aren't those types quickly discovered)
Chris
Certainly invokes passion, opinions and intriguing comment, some based on fact, some based on experience, some based on financial inducements.
Spose its up to us to decipher whats what.
In the end, its only a bloody fish, maybe some lose sight of the reason they first tied on a lure and chucked it into the water??
Keep em comeing
Hi guys and girls i hope all is well.
For starters everyone on this thread i'm not here to argue - i know most of you and you are all nice. I've been working on an article like this for a while now. I was a bit worried to print this one becasue i thought the fishing industry wasn't ready for it and i'd get laughed at. This is the perfect place to put some of those thoughts.
Roo mate i asked the same questions as you mate. Since then i've started thinking of things like i've listed below. I was probably more ticked off than you for not getting answers mate so this thread is off my experieces not yours ok.
This is my food for thought.
High Level Sport
From a sporting analysis point of view i've been looking at the fishing scene and one section of it is the fishing stance. This was after JM's thoughts and suggestions triggered me to think a lot more about my fishing than i used to. I still have ages to go, but that should be a fun path to travel down with fellow Ausfisho's. Fishing is a sport. Not many look at it like we do other sports. Have a think about the training required to be an Olympic athlete. Why? Because in fishing you are going in to battle against mother nature. One hell of a hard opposition to try and master as every day is different. It's the hardest opposition of all time. So we have to look at fishing as one of the hardest sports of all to master. I reckon even people i have disagreed with on here in the past will agree with me on this one.
A mate said the other day " i reckon fishing is the hardest of all mental sports to master". I thought about how frustrated i've been and agreed immediately, when im not catching fish and i'm tired the positive side of the brain is very hard to master at times. With the sport being so hard there is only one solution. We have to train smarter and harder - hence the Olympics theme. Billions of dollars of research spent on mastering the body/mind and sporting events. It has some of the best platforms to be used on fishing, which is a sport. There is no choice but to look at it like this if we want to achieve high levels of success.
Olympics
Start at 4 and train 6 days a week for atleast 20=30 years. For some events this is the minimum standard. Raising the bar even higher is the level of coaching an event/athlete requires. Physio, Massage, Strength, Conditioning (Running Agility, Balance=stability), Flexibility, Event coach e.g. 100m sprint, Pilates, Psychologist, Dietitian to name a few. The more the athlete wants to make it the more they strive and will sacrifice anything to get the best coaches for their network.
If you are not the best the sad fact of life is that we will get cut from the team and will have to compete in a lower grade. It's a tough path and the disappointments are endless. Some never make it and are told to retire, never achieving their dreams. This is usually a moment where teers flow freely.
Many are shattered and some require detraining over years to wean them off etc.
A coach is there at 90% of the sessions to keep the athlete on track and kick them up the ass if they are dragging their performance. Every session is the best possible session - as planned. It's not just rocking up and going fishing. Every session is planned. 4 Year cycles are plotted, yearly cycles are filled in with huge detail, monthly cycles have every cast/set/rep/lure/plastic/water/wind/time/weather/etc mapped out in advance with some leeway given for changes on the day. Weekly plans are a must with the great athletes shining with motivation in every session to beat their team mates and rise above their competitors stats. Even in training.
Example: National Competition. Australian Footy Team
A footy team wanting to win a grand final in one of our major national codes will have even more coaches and support staff than the above list. They pay coaches more than players = coaches are rated number 1. The biggest name player will at times earn more, but a club signs a coach, then players around them. However my experience in the fishing industry this doesn't correlate with any other sport i've seen. There isn't much respect for coaches and hardly anyone would fork out a months junk food, beer & smokes, one new rod and reel a year as a trade off to learning from some of the best impoundment barra fishing coaches we have going around.
Respect
At the moment i reckon we don't respect good Fishing coaches enough. We place their value much lower than what it's really worth. Yearly breakdown: e.g. less than a bottle of wine a week, eating out once a fortnight, smokes, couple of beers a week, a rod and reel combo a year, lures per year. I've thought about how much i respect a fishing coach to where i spend my money and i cringe when i've wasted money. I do have a point. The sporting question is " How much do we really want it?"
Have a think about it. I'm dead right. As a sporting plan is a plan for us all to get better. Where will our current fishing sports plan take us in the next 5,10,15,20 years? If we don't value fishing knowledge higher than wine, eating out all the time, new expensive rods, reels, lures, expensive home entertainment that has us sitting on the sofa. How are we going to achieve Accelerated Learning, which is what everyone is after.
I reckon guides have the hardest job in the world. If they put all their trademark secrets on here for us for free that would be crazy i reckon and terribly unfair - and really bad business. It would be like KFC telling us all their secret herbs and spices or Kelly Slater telling everyone all his competiton/training strategies. Although he is so good that he would probably still win
I'm a Travelling Fisho 2
I reckon one of the biggest advantages we have as travelling anglers who really want to learn more about barra fishing is the time we can really think about fishing, instead of just going fishing. There are some disadvantages to being a local as well. Attitudes like " oh well i didn't catch fish today, i'll just go back out tomorrow and hope they are biting", could easily put someone who doesn't want to think well behind the 8 ball of barra knowledge and well behind a travelling angler in a few departments.
I used to ask for a lot of answers as well, and made the mistake of getting angry when i didn't get them. When i thought of it like accountants on a forum and one of the best giving away $100 000 bucks worth of tips for free that cost half a lifetime of fuel, boats, fishing gear, diving, spear fishing, hunting, observing nature and catching thousands of barra i then thought hell, i am happy to have these guys on the forum.
Then i made the decision as a travelling angler to do a bit more thinking for myself. I reckon i was even wrong in expecting free info at times in the past.
I've made stacks of mistakes. Hopefully i'll limit them in the future.
The best Olympic coaches never give away what cost half a lifetime to get, because that's how they get hired as coaches. To expect Leigh Mathews to give away everything or Lance Armstrong everything he knows to his opposition or future competition would not be the smartest business or sporting plan in the world.
My plan
Is to go fishing with most of you on here and learn from each other. It will be Quicker learning than staying at home etc. More people you know, the more trips you can do - the more training we cando.. Combine this with more thinking, chatting and tinkering is about the best i can do right now. This means i'll get beaten a lot, but that's becasue others will be training harder. Yep it would make it easier as a local, but i'm not so i have to make do travelling. We could all save more money, stop buying crap we don't need and go out with a coach to get a plan for the rest of the year. This might take decades to get up to anywhere near really good fishing status, but i'll have fun along the way.
When i say coaches we are lucky and have a few. Rod Harrison, Jason Wilhelm, Johnny Mitchell, Paul Dolan to name a few at Awoonga and Monduran.
Sorry for the long article. I had it on the computer stored away. Just had to modify it a bit. It's all directed at my own stuffups over the years so please don't anyone take offence. If you have met me you will know i can laugh at myself.
Cheers Lyndon.
Totally agree Brian,i steeped back the other day and asked myself why i fish,and this isnt it.fishing to me is the best stress reliever there is,up at f jumping a couple off.away from it all. they are as you said only barra.Do i enjoy catching em,bloody oath.Do i enjoy doing my head in thinking of how i can turn 5 fish in a weekend into ten... not so much.I think,really when its all said and done,its a personal choice thing.. doing what you enjoy.you can theorize o your head in,have all the best gear(which i must say is enjoyable to use anyway)and some bloke will wander down to the pumping station and pull in a 116 on a j/w combo and a smiling jacks lure with original trebles..Some times with fishing you just have a run of outs. the trouble is when you start second guessing yourself.trying 20 different things in an hour instead of working your plan thoroughly.Dont be afraid to try things but do give them a good go if you do.Remember guys to have a good time out there.i think ill be off for a while.iv got the jack fishing bug again..
cheers chewy....
ps good luck to all in the abt, drive safe guys and get a few.... but leave some at teemburra for me
Yes Brian and Chewy as we have chatted on before at times it's easy to forget what we started fishing for. Fun. I reckon the confusion comes in when we want to really improve and get frustrated. Then also want to have fun, which means different things for everyone.
Some fish a few hours like nath and whitto then chill out in camp over a yarn and a beer - how relaxed are those 2? I could learn how to relax from those guys, they are chilled out which is great.
Others need 14 hour days as they are on a mission and have to catch a fish. Once we have all sorted out what we want (goals) i reckon it's all fun from there. I reckon where the problems start is when we want something but have to do something different to what we are doing now to get it.
Stance while fishing
While we don't have to fish to live e.g. we have to catch fish or we go hungry and could die. I'm guessing that foot placement will never be really be important as we are in easy times where if missed bites are not converted to fish on board it doesn't matter. She'll be right there will be another fish around the corner.
Or if you are comp orientated or a guide or a social fisho who physically and mentally wants to do their best. For a comp angler the prize packet on the weekends event is $200 000 you can't afford one missed strike not being converted to caught fish. Big $200 000 contracts are another reward for the winner.
If you are a guide thinking along these lines the pressure is on to stay sharp and keep learning as the fishing gets tougher and you have to still put clients on to fish. If you don't you lose your clients and eventually you job. Not much pressure - crikey.
This line goes along the Olympic event path of throwing the kitchen sink at them to win. For a social angler a win might be a fish a day, which is still hard work on impoundments. Fishing like many sports require control, efficient movement and quick reactions in a fraction of a second. Balance and position will be a key factor.
One missed fish can let the social anglers goal of a fish a day/trip down. A comp angler's goal of the $200 000 grand US prize is missed. A guides living takes a blow with a fishless day as the angler was not concentrating and was off balance with their feet when the only strike of the day arrived.
Feet placement comes in to the sporting equation as they are the only 2 things on the floor keeping us from taking a swim. They are the start of your whole technique from casting to retrieving and striking. A less than efficient setup at the start of the chain causes problems down the end of the line.
Sport: Just like throwing a javaline, discuss, shotput, cricket ball, boxing, Muay Thai etc everything starts with the position of the feet. All control and power comes from there. This hasn't been talked about much because it hasn't been on the radar. And it probably goes with the fishing coaching scene not being respected as much as say a coach of a footy team etc.
Casting: You have a power position like throwing a jav. Stand on your toes on the edge of the boat and cast and you will fall in as this is a very weak casting position, so foot position does matter, it's just that we didn't notice it before.
Stand back feet back and apart spreads your centre of balance. In sport these casts/throws are replayed on video in most sessions to correct mistakes immediately. In fishing is this ever done out here? Next time you see a missed srike on tv if it's shown have a look at feet position. I've seen Harro and JM correcting and helping with their setups. There would be others for sure, definately. Ahead of their time for our market i reckon.
Summary: After thousands of fish i guess they would be seeing a pattern. It's an easy technique pattern to look at if you are in sport. Essential on windy days with big waves. Hard to explain on the net as it could take a thousand pages. Coaching is again required or we could use this valuable free advice to think about and then practise this for ourselves.
When you think about it the sport of fishing like any sport has it's good and bad positions. AFL kicks are replayed and clangers (bad kicks) are embarrasing for players. You see them out practising hard with their kicking the next week if it's replayed on national TV. It would be the same if our bad techniques on a bad day were all replayed for everyone to laugh at. I reckon my worst casts people would still be laughing at. I didn't even know i had poor technique or positions until i was alerted to it by someone better than me. I was embarrased that's for sure. I had foot position ok coming from sport, but rods and the rest were another story before i could even start thinking about lures.
Striking
Like casting, striking needs a power position. I reckon we should all have a look at our feet position then the rest of our body while fishing to see if we are ready for a strike. I've missed heaps from crappy technique. Terrible misses that hurt on travelling trips. I try and limit those stuffups now that i have my radar on a little better thanks to helpful info.
Nagg mate you are a good bloke and have a creative learning thread going here.
I hope my sporting cross fishing thread worked in with your helping thread.
This section will be used for articles in the future.
Cheers Lyndon.
Some good points here guys!
Re Experts, Guides and info... The flak some people throw at them on this site is alarming, spitting the dummy because you dont get what you want. In fact I have it from a good source it has driven one great contributor away from here.
I have learned heaps from paying a guide in many different fishing environments. In UK where I lived for 5 years, I hired a guide to ramp me up on flyfishing for trout. I then sought out some of the best flymakers in UK and bought some of their flies, (expensive) so I could learn to make them EXACTLY THE SAME. These guys encouraged that. Outcome..I just nailed heaps of trout!
If we want the fine detail, and thats what Roos wants, go hard after it and dont be afraid to pay for it! Funny, many will pay huge bucks for equipment to catch fish, but be horrified at paying to learn HOW TO USE IT. Beyond me...I want to catch fish!!
In every sphere of life, bettering your skills will cost in some way. Fastrack yourself and pay for it! Maybe thats not everyones cup of tea, but it works for me.
Earlier this year I hired a guide to get smart on SPs in the Estuary scene and one afternoon changed my whole approach and have been nailing heaps of fish on SPs ever since. The cost of an afternoon or day with a guide is microscopic, when compared with the overall outlay in boat, gear,fuel travel, accomodation we gladly cough up to get the chance to chase our favourite species. And its a great experience.
I have hired a guide on Awoonga twice, particularly as a person who doesnt get to go there very often, so we have been able to maximise our chances of nailing good fish on each trip.
From what we have learned here, Nagg had the chance to get on board at Awoonga with one of the best fishos around, and I am sure without that, as a maybe once or twice per year vistor, would have a lesser result.
To have fine detail spoon fed to us from real experts, guides included, on this forum is an unrealistic expectation, and I think anything offered for our help by them is a bonus, and we should be thankful, even if it is just enough to get us thinking outside the box.
Im not suggesting they are the only source of info, but hey as Roo mentioned, guides spend so much more time on the water, so they certainly should have a great and broader knowledge.
Nagg we all cant wait for your next seemingly benign thread!! LOL
Cheers
Barraboy7
" Fishing is not a hobby, a Hobby is something I do in my spare time! "
Practical stuff we can all do. This is what i'd do if i was in a park or around a fire chatting with you guys.
1. Go out in to the back yard or on our next fishing trip and place our feet together standing on tippy toes. Then see how far we can cast. Say 25m. I'm using round figures for ease ok.
2. Then stand in a position that feels stronger and more balanced. See how far you can cast. Say around 30m.
3. Now get someone else to look at your foot & rod placement and cast. Maybe get it improved a little. What if you were now casting 35m with less effort to protect your back, shoulders over the decades. Many will have shoulder problems, spurs, crunching, arthritis, back problems etc from a lifetime if you do a lot of casts, some even surgery.
Is this important information? Well if you throw lures 4 days a week like some do or guide people to cast lures 6 days a week it's really important. For results and injury prevention. I'll go over those figures later.
Social Angler. Say you do one trip a month for ease of figures. 2 days casting = 1000 casts. 1000 x 25m = 25000m of time your lure was in the water.
1000 x 35m = 35000m your lure was in the water.
That's 10000 m of extra time per month (120000m+/year) that your lure was in the water to catch fish from the same amount of casts. That's only as a travelling angler wow. Massive differences appear. When you take in to consideration the further away from your boat you cast might be getting closer to spooky fish e.g. better fishing zones. That last 10m is the goldmine area, especially when compared to the first 10m zone from your boat to where you were casting.
Fish side by side with friend who casts 10m further for 10 years. The toll on his body will be a lot less if he has an efficient technique and the fishing zones he can get to will be thousands of acres more in size. This stuff has to mount up over time. Position of the whole body now takes on more importance if we want to improve.
Watch Brett Lee when he bowls those 150km bullets this summer and see where his feet are, then body and arms. When someone throws the wickets down have a look at where their feet are. The funny thing is that often the best throws and fastest deliveries feel like the easiest ones, becasue the technique was really good (efficient). I hear the same thing across a lot of sports, so muscling out casts is not the answer, that will soon give us a good dose of lure arm and back, one which i've had many a time ha.
I hope this stuff is of some interest.
Cheers Lyndon.
Lyndon , JM , Roo , Brian , BB7 & others ........ Thanks for the input hereabouts . Not only is it appreciated , it adds to structure of a good thread / topic
Raising the issues that fall under the umbrella of technique ....... often go hand in hand with tackle
Think about the location of that hook during a retrieve & where you are likely to drive a hook home ....... clearly a vertical strike will hit the hard part at the top of the mouth . However a more horizontal strike , just may pull the lure to the side of the mouth & find that important hinge hook up
Chris
Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
Teach him how to fish
& he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
TEAM MOJIKO
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