Good thread resurrection. Some different points of view, and good information. One point which was made, and which all need to bear in mind, that if moisture can get in the end where it is crimped, tinned will only slow it down. I wired my new boat myself last year, and used, for the smaller conductors, heatshrink crimps. For the larger stuff, such as the House feed, winch cables and starter/house battery leads, all was done in tinned, with either glued heatshrink over the ends, or sealant inside before shrinking. I prefer lugs that are dead ended, meaning you dont have to seal that end. I tend to solder on the larger cables after I have crimped anyway, which seals the exposed end. I notice people salivating over battery cable-sized crimpers, but put off by cost. That may have been the case in 2008, but ones suitable for that are cheap as chips nowadays. For my wiring job, I bought a set of small hydraulics for the princely sum of $37.50 delivered, IIRC. Yes, they are chinese, yes they are cheap, no I would not buy them for use as an electrical contractor. But for handyman use, they are gold. Dies nominally from 10mm2 to 70mm2, do the job well. Great for Anderson plug crimping, too.
I'd like to say that every inch of wiring on the boat was tinned, which was my intention, but I fell over on oneI have to buy all mine by mail order, and I miscalculated somehow, on 16mm2 single. I ended up about 400mm short for the house feed. Really constrained for time, big trip looming, needed to get it done in just a couple of R&R's . So I joined some untinned one end, the dry end, and sealed all the connections. I may have to look at it in 10 years' time.
Everything had to be preplanned down to the last component, so it was all there when needed. And the actual layout couldn't be done until I had the boat, only pics to go off. They are still in the 80's as far as wiring goes, the old jam it all behind the dash approach, which is OK if you only have a six-gang switch panel. A lot in my fitout, so I mounted a panel behind the dash in the cuddy. Dry area, proper door. I had underestimated the amount of space I needed, so it ended up a bit cramped. The only way i was ever going to do it was properly, so it was fuse feed to switch panel, switched active back to terminal strip, load fed from terminal strip. Only was to go, IMO, no rooting about behind the switch panel for fault finding or re-allocating resources. Negative comes striaght from fuse panel. I had to go 2 panels. Due to being a bit cramped for space, it didn't come out as nice as I would have liked, but it'll have to do. Another 50mm wider on the mounting panel would have made a big difference. The NMEA2000 bus stripmounting holes meant had to be mounted horizontally, so I had to screw a little bit of window trim for it, unless I wanted them poking out.
I also used a numbering system for ID, need to get a little bit of trefolite engraved with that before I lose it off my phone.
I bought a switch panel and switches from NewWire Marine in the US, wired it myself. All the tails were done before hand, makes it easier when it comes time to connect.
Space is always the biggest battle in an electronic heavy environment these days - more so since the escalation in the numbers of devices that use modules. The other thing that can make a really neat wiring job difficult is engine harnesses. From my experience the Suzuki one is a special for it but I am sure there would be others - more plugs than Warny's head.
What does the button second from right top row do? ;-)Originally Posted by ranmar850
Good thread resurrection. Some different points of view, and good information. One point which was made, and which all need to bear in mind, that if moisture can get in the end where it is crimped, tinned will only slow it down. I wired my new boat myself last year, and used, for the smaller conductors, heatshrink crimps. For the larger stuff, such as the House feed, winch cables and starter/house battery leads, all was done in tinned, with either glued heatshrink over the ends, or sealant inside before shrinking. I prefer lugs that are dead ended, meaning you dont have to seal that end. I tend to solder on the larger cables after I have crimped anyway, which seals the exposed end. I notice people salivating over battery cable-sized crimpers, but put off by cost. That may have been the case in 2008, but ones suitable for that are cheap as chips nowadays. For my wiring job, I bought a set of small hydraulics for the princely sum of $37.50 delivered, IIRC. Yes, they are chinese, yes they are cheap, no I would not buy them for use as an electrical contractor. But for handyman use, they are gold. Dies nominally from 10mm2 to 70mm2, do the job well. Great for Anderson plug crimping, too.
I'd like to say that every inch of wiring on the boat was tinned, which was my intention, but I fell over on one
Everything had to be preplanned down to the last component, so it was all there when needed. And the actual layout couldn't be done until I had the boat, only pics to go off. They are still in the 80's as far as wiring goes, the old jam it all behind the dash approach, which is OK if you only have a six-gang switch panel. A lot in my fitout, so I mounted a panel behind the dash in the cuddy. Dry area, proper door. I had underestimated the amount of space I needed, so it ended up a bit cramped. The only way i was ever going to do it was properly, so it was fuse feed to switch panel, switched active back to terminal strip, load fed from terminal strip. Only was to go, IMO, no rooting about behind the switch panel for fault finding or re-allocating resources. Negative comes striaght from fuse panel. I had to go 2 panels. Due to being a bit cramped for space, it didn't come out as nice as I would have liked, but it'll have to do. Another 50mm wider on the mounting panel would have made a big difference. The NMEA2000 bus stripmounting holes meant had to be mounted horizontally, so I had to screw a little bit of window trim for it, unless I wanted them poking out.
I also used a numbering system for ID, need to get a little bit of trefolite engraved with that before I lose it off my phone.
I bought a switch panel and switches from NewWire Marine in the US, wired it myself. All the tails were done before hand, makes it easier when it comes time to connect.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Here's a backyard myth,heatshrink is waterproof. Basic heatshrink (especially the matt finish) is actually porous unless you introduce a sealant of some kind. I've even had the dual wall which has an adhesive fail the test. I tend now to introduce my own sealant inpto the heatshrink. Soldering joints us an art, too much solder and everything said so far is correct. To properly solder, heat the cable and apply a minimum of solder on top of the joint and allow it to pent rate so that the twisted joint looks like it has a hint of solder through it. Clean copper doesn't need resin. Too much heat is also an issue. This thread raises and creates far more issues than old boot first suggested, for example no one has mentioned that current travels best on the outside surface of a wire which is one reason DC cables have finer strands as 240v cable is not as efficient due to the thickness of the cores.
I at times take short cuts and regret them in the end, I should know better as I worked with guys doing 110kv ug cables that required absolute cleanliness and precision.
What it says--spot pingers look out!
Nah, When I ordered the panel, I thought I had two spares. Pretty boring, calling them Spare, so I picked from their options list. Then I saw the recommendation from Raymarine that the MFD's be independently switched, ie, not direct from the fuse panel. So there goes my two spares . I reorganised the switch panel to what is shown below, basing the order on what i feel I need the most, with the wipers at one bottom corner to save hunting for them. The top four are what you would turn on, every time, first up. GPS, which feeds the NMEA 200 network, ( and Autopilot) VHF, and the two MFD's.
Very nice job ranmar
Saltwater fishing, boat mad but has a job that gets in the way.
VERY NICE RAN!
i couldnt agree more, it seems the past 5 months we have done several Caribbean refits and builts from their Reef runner to their latest 49fter earlier this year. and caribbean .....are very much stuck in the 80s with their wiring and outfitting, and speaking to the company and dealers... it doesnt seem likley to change " actually i feel the factory may be moving soon"
We sure have a lot more electronics going into smaller boats than we ever did in the past, remote mounting is becoming more and more of a thing we perform, having digital switch panels and digitial controls with the connecting circuits in a more secure and waterproof location. On our current project, an 11mt Jeanneau to be debuted at the melbourne boat show, we have converted the small "very small!" 3rd bedroom into a plant room with a hell of a lot of access for the .......ehh mind boggling system we are installing.
Boats and wiring, its a lifestyle!
moose
Polyolifin, the most common material used for heatshink is as waterproof as the plastic pipes used to carry water. In fact some polyolifans are often used for water storage (and some are used for making boats!)
The problem is not the sealants used, it more about if the sealant is compatible with the materials being used. Use the right materials, you will get the right bond. This is rarely possible unless the heatshink, the glue, and the cable are designed specifically to work with each other. This is ok when you are working in a specific industry that has specified materials. Not so easy when you are working with generic off-the-shelf stuff.
In the case of the average dual wall heatshirink, it rarely bonds well to PVC cable sheathing. Its ok initially, but as the glue gets older and more rigid, it separates from the PVC sheath of the cable. Add in the different thermal expansions of the two and you are never going to get a positive seal.
Soldering is not an art, its a skill, just like welding. But like everything, dont do it for a while, your skills get wasted. I have spent the best part of my life soldering shit, but the last 10 years off the tools combined with a failing eyesight and I now struggle to do it well.
For the record, resin is a type of flux. Clean copper needs flux to make a good solder joint. Even clean copper has a layer of oxidation, and flux is used to break that down.
We are talking DC circuits, not AC. Current travels equally through the cable. The reason you use finer strands is for resistance to failure due to mechanical stress. 240V cable is used in houses, once run it rarely suffers from mechanical stress. In fact, a solid copper wire is technically a better conductor because there is no inter-strand resistance. I wont get into skin effect, but a standard stranded copper wire does not reduce skin effect anyway.
In a boat or a car, the constant vibration and movement means are more flexible cable is needed. A small diameter strand is more flexible and suffers less deformation when bent.
This I agree with. Proper tools, proper technique, cleanliness and precision. It make s a huge difference.
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