Ultra-Light or Finesse - A difference???

[Jeremy]

Why worry about it unless you are reducing your fish to some arbitrary point score. Why not just use the gear most suitable for the target being pursued that gives you the most enjoyment.
I like to think my 6kg rig is often a finesse outfit

I agree that fishing is about enjoyment, and what exactly we all enjoy about it can vary a bit. Points ring my bell. 100 pointers, 250s, records, masters. I enjoy the challenge and the competition.

Jeremy

[2manylures]

I think there is a significant difference between the 2

I used to troll 1kg off a baitcaster to catch Striped Tuna , Salmon etc ( ANSA days) Now this is Ultra light but no finesse about it what so ever ....... patience & luck yes!
finesse ..... I see as a whole concept ( lightish lines be it braid or FC & long light leaders or no leaders , small lures / plastics ... fine rods , small reels ... Accurate casts in clear conditions ..... Its all about fooling a fish in difficult conditions. ....... ( lighter gear than you would normally use to target a particular fish )

I fished for yellowfin tuna a couple of times ....... where we fished 10kg mono & no leaders on small hooks ........... just to get them to take a cube I call this finesse fishing too

Well thats how I see it

Chris

I don’t know how you can say trolling & especially 1kg has no finesse about it. & you basically say finesse is using "lighter gear than you would normally use to target a particular fish"

Neither of these statements make any sense what so ever along with “Patience & Luck”

“PATIENCE” is what fishing is all about. We are rewarded when we get it right.

“LUCK” could be applied for every “by catch” when we target a particular species. I do a lot of trolling with ultra-light tackle & don’t consider myself “LUCKY” when I catch a fish. I consider the fact that I’m doing it “RIGHT”

“IT’S ALL ABOUT FOOLING THE FISH” Many including myself would argue that this is the backbone of what fishing is all about. Since man started fishing all he has ever done is try and fool the fish. Nothing “finesse” about this.

The casting of lures from boats, banks or structures to predominantly schooling species in my mind does not necessarily constitute “finesse” fishing. The targeting of schooling species is a reasonable starting point for the angler trying to hone a few skills. It is without doubt one of the easiest ways to catch fish when compared to targeting solitary species where the angler has to be more definite & refined with what they’re doing. A good example of this would be Murray Cod. Many anglers fish for yrs with no success, yet basically anyone can catch Bream.

FINESSE, as it’s called appears to be nothing more than a term for describing “LURE CASTING”.

Ultra-Light anglers fish very light breaking strains for TROLLING, BAIT FISHING, LURE CASTING & FLY.

There’s a huge difference when a line breaks at or very near its rating than thin lines with up to & over 1/2 again or double the actual breaking strain.

ULTR-LIGHT would be more the refining of an angler’s skill level.

The lighter we fish the more skill needed for an end result.

In my humble opinion the only true finesse angling is fly fishing in the hands of an experience & competent angler & moreso those fishing fast running rivers.
OR
The competent course angler who is given a small stretch of bank be it on a river or lake & who then has to bring the fish to him/herself in order to out catch his opponents.

I’m neither of the above!

[NAGG]

I don’t know how you can say trolling & especially 1kg has no finesse about it. & you basically say finesse is using "lighter gear than you would normally use to target a particular fish"

Neither of these statements make any sense what so ever along with “Patience & Luck”

“PATIENCE” is what fishing is all about. We are rewarded when we get it right.

“LUCK” could be applied for every “by catch” when we target a particular species. I do a lot of trolling with ultra-light tackle & don’t consider myself “LUCKY” when I catch a fish. I consider the fact that I’m doing it “RIGHT”

“IT’S ALL ABOUT FOOLING THE FISH” Many including myself would argue that this is the backbone of what fishing is all about. Since man started fishing all he has ever done is try and fool the fish. Nothing “finesse” about this.

The casting of lures from boats, banks or structures to predominantly schooling species in my mind does not necessarily constitute “finesse” fishing. The targeting of schooling species is a reasonable starting point for the angler trying to hone a few skills. It is without doubt one of the easiest ways to catch fish when compared to targeting solitary species where the angler has to be more definite & refined with what they’re doing. A good example of this would be Murray Cod. Many anglers fish for yrs with no success, yet basically anyone can catch Bream.

FINESSE, as it’s called appears to be nothing more than a term for describing “LURE CASTING”.

Ultra-Light anglers fish very light breaking strains for TROLLING, BAIT FISHING, LURE CASTING & FLY.

There’s a huge difference when a line breaks at or very near its rating than thin lines with up to & over 1/2 again or double the actual breaking strain.

ULTR-LIGHT would be more the refining of an angler’s skill level.

The lighter we fish the more skill needed for an end result.

In my humble opinion the only true finesse angling is fly fishing in the hands of an experience & competent angler & moreso those fishing fast running rivers.
OR
The competent course angler who is given a small stretch of bank be it on a river or lake & who then has to bring the fish to him/herself in order to out catch his opponents.

I’m neither of the above!

2 many

Its only my opinion ... but i'll clarify for you

Trolling 1 kg baitcast gear around (ANSA point scoring) ...... was all about getting a hook up & then being patient with the capture ( not rushing) It could take 30 -40 mins to land the fish! ...... the hook up was the easy part
Luck ..... very much so .... 1 kg mono being dragged through the water is easily broken ... just by clipping another fish , jelly fish ... whatever ......... Yes there is real skill involved ........ but its not finesse IMO - Its ultralight & yes ultralight does apply to bait , lures , trolling etc ........... but it is really just about using light tackle ....... I could hook those same Tuna whether I was using 1 kg or 15kg

Finesse fishing has been adopted by the bream lurecasting fraternity ...... without a doubt ................... & I do see examples of bream fishing in Gin clear water over sand flats where normal techniques would spook the fish .......... You then adapt finesse tactics ( long light leaders , small lures , fish slow etc etc) ..... It's a concept
Fly fishing for trout in slow running stream is also finesse fishing ..... along with fishing for blackfish

Hey & by no way am I denigrating or favoring one from the other ..........

Chris

[reidy]

tomato, tomato
sauce , katchup
boot , trunk
bonnet ,hood
To the average fisho its all the same to me.
Big/more fish lighter gear what ever the reason.=the old ultralight and finesse
Cheers
reidy
To me 6lb is finesse

[jim_bream]

OK, another question:

if you're chasing a larger species on a line with a breaking strain well below the said target species, can this also be classed as 'finesse' or 'ultra-light'?

We've all gone to the very lightest end of the scale (no pun intended ) to try and illustrate the difference between the two,
but
what happens if you (FOR EXAMPLE) land a 25Kg jewie on 5Kg line, does this count as finesse/ ultralight OR does finesse/ ultralight denote a specific range of breaking strains for a given type of line? (Be it braid, FC, mono or pre-test)

Just thought I'd try it from another angle..

Jimbo

[BLOOEY]

Finessing is the way in which you entice the fish to eat your'e offering. Ultra light is the tackle used to subdue the fish once hooked. Yes there is a difference. Ultra light doesn't do it for me personally. But i do use light gear on wary fish that need the finessing touch. Hanging off the end of a rod for over an hour with only a moderate sized fish on the other end i find pretty boring. Ben

[breamnut]

I was aware that there is braid out there which is pretest and IGFA rated. I had thought this would have been a small minority of the braid users though?

Jeremy

not really more modern pe braids are becoming quite cheap now

[Steve B]

Finessing is the way in which you entice the fish to eat your'e offering. Ultra light is the tackle used to subdue the fish once hooked. Yes there is a difference. Ultra light doesn't do it for me personally. But i do use light gear on wary fish that need the finessing touch. Hanging off the end of a rod for over an hour with only a moderate sized fish on the other end i find pretty boring. Ben

Ben I reckon you have nailed it in its simplest form!!!
Finesse=angling style
ultra light= gear used.

In the main area I fish, being impoundment barra, you can have finesse fishing with 50lb braid! you can also fish ultra light with 10-15lb and no finesse whatsovever, if thats your style.

A happy medium between the two is probably the best common ground to be increase overall success with both hookup and landing.

of course this is only my opinion, I will no doubt be told if I am wrong.

cheers steve

[finding_time]

OK, another question:

if you're chasing a larger species on a line with a breaking strain well below the said target species, can this also be classed as 'finesse' or 'ultra-light'?

We've all gone to the very lightest end of the scale (no pun intended ) to try and illustrate the difference between the two,
but
what happens if you (FOR EXAMPLE) land a 25Kg jewie on 5Kg line, does this count as finesse/ ultralight OR does finesse/ ultralight denote a specific range of breaking strains for a given type of line? (Be it braid, FC, mono or pre-test)

Just thought I'd try it from another angle..

Jimbo

This is the way i look at it as well jimbo! I'm still chasing my 10- 1 ratio eg a 80 kg black or striped marlin on 8 kg line. not there yet but for me it's a challenge that i'm looking forward to and think about every time i buy a reel , set a drag , service a reel , crimp a loop, will this set up be up to the job for the few to many hours it will take to pin the fish!

Ian

[2manylures]

This is the way i look at it as well jimbo! I'm still chasing my 10- 1 ratio eg a 80 kg black or striped marlin on 8 kg line. not there yet but for me it's a challenge that i'm looking forward to and think about every time i buy a reel , set a drag , service a reel , crimp a loop, will this set up be up to the job for the few to many hours it will take to pin the fish!

Ian

TRUE SPORTS FISHING, I was beginning to think it was dying in this day & age of skull dragging veracious schooling lure caught species which is about all finesse fishing seems to be.

[jim_bream]

Straight from a dictionary site:
FINESSE-

1. extreme delicacy or subtlety in action, performance, skill, discrimination, taste, etc.
2. skill in handling a difficult or highly sensitive situation; adroit and artful management

EXAMPLES:

You should see my finesse when I stumble back into my dark house after being down in the shed with the boys for beers & Friday night footy...

You should hear the ultra-light steps I take creeping back into the bedroom, once I've bounced off the closed door a few times...

You should see the missus skull-drag me back downstairs with finesse

But I think that finesse denotes the technique, ultra-light is the tackle, thanks for the clarification.

[2manylures]

Straight from a dictionary site:
FINESSE-

1. extreme delicacy or subtlety in action, performance, skill, discrimination, taste, etc.
2. skill in handling a difficult or highly sensitive situation; adroit and artful management

EXAMPLES:

You should see my finesse when I stumble back into my dark house after being down in the shed with the boys for beers & Friday night footy...
You should hear the ultra-light steps I take creeping back into the bedroom, once I've bounced off the closed door a few times...

You should see the missus skull-drag me back downstairs with finesse

But I think that finesse denotes the technique, ultra-light is the tackle, thanks for the clarification.

CLASSIC STUFF, Brings back a few memories.

I think the only other clarification is the fact mainly Jap lures are used as they seem by all accounts to be the only lures that work

From what i can gather this finesse thing started out when the Jap pros copied the Yank pros & now after watching dvd's & reading stories Ozzies have invented there own mongrel X breed version & given it a fancy intelligent sounding name

What amuses me is many anglers were doing the FINESSE thing decades ago with little bladed spinners.

These little spinners {out of fashion to most} have caught probably more fish from various waters than anything else ever produced & STILL DO just not many use them. Maybe they are too simple, not enough technology. or just too hard to cast.

[reidy]

yeh interesting point 2many. Can relate that to running a small celta on 4lb mono on a small palm butt rod 20 years ago fishing for small river trout. And i thought i was just fishing light but i was finessing all along. or or or maybe
Cheers
Reidy

[BLOOEY]

2ML Finessing isn't purely a lurefishing addage. You can be finessing with bait also i.e use lighter guage hooks, hook placement, sinker weight e.t.c. I think it is more referring to attention to detail and prevailing conditions than what lure you are tying on. Ben

[imnotoriginal]

2ML Finessing isn't purely a lurefishing addage. You can be finessing with bait also i.e use lighter guage hooks, hook placement, sinker weight e.t.c. I think it is more referring to attention to detail and prevailing conditions than what lure you are tying on. Ben

I agree, I've fished with bread for bream in difficult conditions that required a lot of finesse and skill to hook and land a fish.
Joel