haines 445r-f conversion is under way. Updates regularly

[Wayne_Red]

Looks like your making good progress Jeffo. Gotta hate that itchy dusty feeling. I also have a 445r and I replace one stringer a couple of yars ago, I still have to do the floor and the other stringer, keep putting it off. I also replaced the floor and stringers in a mates 445r 2 years ago.
When I did my mates boat I took the boat off the trailer to sit it flat on the keel on a piece of ply or similar and choked the transom. That way the hull stays straight when you put the stringers back in and is not distorted by the trailer rollers. It also makes it easier to get in and out of the boat to do the work.
Because you have a long project I waould also suggest you take the motor off to protect it from dust and get it out of your way.
Can I ask how much you paid for the boat as is?
Regards Wayne

[jeffo]

yeah i am pretty tempted to take it off the trailer before i start cutting all the structural bits out. what timber did you use for replacing your mates boat?

I paid $11,000 for the boat- as apart from the floor being soft i couldnt fault the hull, there is not one single gel coat crack or anything on the entire boat (it looks like it hardly ever moved). I did my maths and figured the engine had to be worth somewhere around $6000, the trailer 800-$1000, add to that a sounder, seats, fuel tanks, battery, bilge pump... for about $4000-$5000 i figured the hull wasnt bad buying (although now im not so sure).

While im a touch disapointed i have to go all out, it will be a learning curve and im sure it will make me all the more satisfied with the end product.

[blaze]

Hi
I think you paid $3500 to much. I rebuilt a 20 footer a few years ago and paid $1500 for it.(at least I think thats what it was, theres a couple of threads on here with total price including rebuild)
Ok
Main main reason for replying wasnt to knock your purchase but to suguest you fit glass stringers. Best thing I ever did. I borrowed the mould from a mate, it was just a sheet galv tin folded by the sheet metal guys. His was 300mm deep and 100mm wide. The process was to lay up 900g matt, then a layer of woven roven (heavy duty stuff, name alludes me a present) and then another 900g matt. This ends up about 3mm thick. Take it off the mould and shape to fit, now anchor in the hull with strips of glass about every 300mm, round off and fill up gaps with qcell. Now you need to repeat the mat, roven,mat 2 more times extending further across the hull each time. I ended up with 10mm stringers, an extra 3mm at the chines and extra 6mm acrossbetween the stringes. Ultra strong and will never ever rot or break, extra resale value if all done right and photo and documentation to prove it.
cheers
blaze

[jeffo]

you got any photos blaze of that process blaze? i dont quite follow what you are trying to say with the gal mould.

If you can find a Haines 445 for under 5 grand you are doing much better than me!! Most are between 6 and 10 grand with 15-20 year old engines, and like mine they all have the same risk of being rotten out.

[death_ship]

jeez i think i sold my 17 too cheap!! you should hav had a look jeffo

[blaze]

I will do a search later and see if I can find the thread. The galv mould is just to shape the stringer, the same as any mould. Once the 900gmat, layer of woven and another layer of 900g mat are layed up on the mould you then wait for it to cure and remove the new stringer from the glav mould, cut to shape and fit to boat hull.
Not really knocking what you paid, I have also paid over and above what would be deemed a fair market price to get what I want.
cheers
blaze

[DALEPRICE]

gday jeffo,
good luck with the project.
what sort of motor you looking at repowering with? underfloor tank ?
couple idears for you to think about possibly,
use every nook and cranny to make areas for dry storage.
think about location of navigation lights as on the centre console is to much reflection. possibly have some areas to run power through under the floor to areas of extra lights ect to save surface mounting.
Blaze is on the money with the stringers and once done you no they are right.
keep the photos comming
dale

[Wayne_Red]

Good idea about the stringer blaze I hadn't thought of that. Quite a few manufactures make glass ones now.
Jeffo, I replace my mates with 25mm thick hardwood planned to shape to fit the hull and rounded off on the top. I thought the hardwood would resist moisture better that the ply ones. Having said that Mr Haines knew how to build boats and his ply ones lasted 20 years.
Most old haines or any 20+ year old boat will have soft floor, stringers & transoms so yours is quite normal. 11k sounds about right considering you have a 12 month old motor on it. The new motor 12 months ago would have been @8k
I paid 4 1/2k for 1983 445 with an 83" 70 jono on it, sold the jono for 1k and put a new 70 yam on it for 7 1/2k
Just be sure what you are doing is what you want and it will still be a cheap boat compared to a new hull.
Regards Wayne

[doccrr9876]

I too am just about to begin a restoration of a 445
Last year I restored a 146r equipped with a wavebreaker / cuddy type cabin that evidently Haines experimented with whilst developing new models back in the eighties.
Many hours later that boat came up as a pleasing end result - but - was not roomy enough for our fishing style.
Side anchor retrieve was a pain.
I have placed that one in a yard and purchased the 445 that came on the local market.

Had to pay much more than I wanted to get the 445.
The owner was much aware of the new interest in this size of classic hull and open layout and had received many enquiries and a few offers.
But, it was local and I could simply tow it the 10 minutes home.
Trailer is just ok.

Decided to pay up to get the boat I wanted which was till fortunes less than the Formula 15 or new Haines ( signature- I think) that I saw at the Sanctuary Cove and Melbourne boat show.
Hull is in great shape but the layout, fittings and storage need much attention.
Old Johnno 70 - evidently - recently rebuilt(?), so I shall see how it goes.

Pls update with progress on your project and I shall attempt to post up some pics of mine.
May be able to compare notes and layout ideas.

Regards
Chris

[Quaker]

Hey guys I'm just curious as to how you stop the hull flexing when you remove the stringers. When the boat builder built my hull, he left it in the mould until the stringers were glassed into place so it stays the correct shape.

[doccrr9876]

Quaker

To prevent distortion in the hull, which I was warned might occur, as I repaired my previous HH 146 I only replaced one stringer at a time and also braced the hull with a series of pipe clamps across the transom and made some long pipe clamps with extended arms to clamp from the underside of the hull.

I do not know which most contributed to the outcome but I did not suffer any flex in the hull.

ChrisR

[jeffo]

Thanks for your replies guys.

Good to see i am not alone in doing this project and it sounds like many others are restoring the same hull.

I plan on making a cradle to sit my hull in out of timber and carpet and also running cross braces across the top of the hull to hold its shape- i guess you cant be to carefull when setting all this up as the hull shape is the reason for doing the entire job.

I would love to see photos of other peoples progress so far and also maybe sme shots of the sub frames of thier 445s as i am a bit suss that this one has been done before. See the woven roving patches here and there in the pics.

[sooty_mad]

Jeff

You will notice on the 445 that the existing floor is slightly below (30 or so mm)the reverse chine. I am planning on raising the floor to this level so that the floor is on the same level for its whole width.

In my boats case the floor was suspect but the stringers were ok. I have decided however that I will raise the stringers to the new level and then epoxy onto both sides fibreglass coated 12mm Nidaplas and then glass over the whole lot and glass this to the floor. This way I figure that if in 10 years the stringers do rot out then the total glass structure will be more than adequate to structurally support the hull. Make sense?

Kind regards... David

[jeffo]

I have thought about doing the same with the floor David- but then i loose that 30mm or so in internal freeboard (which is one of the reasons i love this hull so much), i am going to leave it at the original hieght.

Update from the past few days. Havent done any more cutting yet, got the motor serviced and warranty book updated. made a stand for the engine to sit on while the projects takes place- it will come off tomorrow arvo.

Later this week i will make a stand for the boat with hopes to support as much of it as possible.

Chris- Did you take any photos of your 146 project>? how did you go about replacing the stringers one at a time? id be interested in doing this although im stuck on how you did the bearers doing it this way?

Cheers.

JEff.

[Wayne_Red]

Jeffo
The woven rovings in patches are standard from when they are built most likely to add strength. Personally I wouldn't go to the trouble of building a craddle, just get the keel sitting on a stable surface, I did my mates in the front yard, so the ground was the stable surface, I you are doing it in a shed even better you have a flat concrete floor just put ply or old carpet down. Then chock the transom out at the reverse chine with wood blocks and along the side around where the seat would be on the reverse chine, that will keep the boat solid. Cut the old stringers out and prepare the surface.
Then when you are ready to shape and fit the new stringers remove the chocks and repack them again starting at the transom. Then pack a couple more blocks under the chine below the stringer with just enough packer to be firm under the hull without pushing under the hull.
The hull will not be out of shape anyway because it is sitting on its keel and there is more than enough strength in the hull and deck not to distort with stringers and floor removed.
The hull will not move beause it has blocks at the transom and half way along on the reverse chine. (At this stage the bottom of the hull under the stringers will take its natural shape, flat)
Most important, the bottom of the hull is now blocked under the stringer in a couple of places so when you glass the stringer in you know the hull is flat.
When you are glassing in the stringer put a piece of ply form the keel across on the side you are not working on so you don't put any of your weight on the hull under the stringer your working on.
When you remove the old stringers check for a cracked/broken stringer on the port side about 4' from the transom. Mine was broken through causing a crack in the hull there, my mates was the same, another 445 he had before that was the same and another mate had the same. Total 4 I know of cracked the hull in the exact same spot. If your stinger is broken there have a good look for a crack in the hull.
Regards Wayne