Game Over

[rando]

Yeah your right plenty of salmon .
Is that a result of a reduced beach haul fishing effort down south.

[deepfried]

Hey rando,
I am not certain but Salmon arent netted much at all now where they used to be down south due to a closed season during spawning. They used be netted heavily and their range was limited to about the north of newcastle, well in any sort of numbers that is. Soon you guys will be getting them up there. They just keep coming back in bigger numbers and heading further north each year. Last year i heard of catches north of the gold coast when it was rare to even get them down here a few years ago. Great fun to catch though, a lot better fighter than Tailor but not much good on the plate. There are quite a few people in NSW that want them netted again in big numbers to get rid of them.

[bg1000]

just a point there is no more beach haul at moreton the buyout took out the last two liceneces to my knowledge. also the yellow zone all the way up fraser is a substantial fish haven and the take of tailor by beach haul along fraser has been banned. there is no beach haul from hells gates noosa to coolum. from south maroochy river mouth to kawana. also yellow zones at double island and on stradie. so there are plenty of places to chase fish away from commercial operations. so i don't think its all doom and gloom because the netters are at noosa. the commercial operators have to be able to work somewhere.

[rando]

Hey Deepfried
last year down at Iluka/Woody i saw schools of salmon so thick you needed paper towel just to find the water in between them.

I couldn't believe how many fish were there,,, no wonder Tye Porter is doing his block about them.
Apparently, once they show up they out compete everything else.
There must be something that eats them though!
Ive heard big snapper like them ( in NZ).

[sulla]

I only just came across this post i actually read all seven pages of posts long read, in one sitting Slider thats of a lot of reserch to read through to be honest i totally agree its been talked about here on ausfish last couple of years the effect on mullet netting regarding tailor catches particularly on the sunshine coast .

recently someone on here ask about tailor fishing up on ths sunshine coast i replied say where i would try and mentioned that there has been over the last years a lack of tailor on the sunshine coast supposedly from mullet trawlers . A few members agreed but one member said You've got to be kidding. Does anyone still really believe that a trawler would be gathering up schools of mullet?

as for the stats on rec anglers on how mainly each catch a year i would say pretty spot on the majority of ppl who arnt determined or obessed only catch 3 or 4 a year as for me getting better at tailor but this time each
year if im down at narrowneck i always cacth catch more sea bream than tailori n a session and some get damn big got a 43 cm bream last year but as for tailor never came close to bagging out max 5 in one session .

that the bag limit of 20 is to much 10 can feed a family of 4 easyly why bloody freeze it as it doesnt work well with tailor or is it a invite a load of mates over for dinner and heres the 20 tailor i caught today.
I do think and yes everybody start swearing at me that 10 keepers per session is not a hard ask
However somthing has to be done about the trawlers .
I love PETA wanting to rename fish sea kittens i assume quite a few of there members have cats and they are feeding them canned mullet.
Slider great work with the reseach definalty an eye opener

[nigelr]

Rando and Deepfried, I believe NSW Fisheries have upped the take on Aust. salmon in the Hawkesbury system, ostensibly as trap bait. Got to be a good move, although they fight good salmon are voracious feeders and are like marine vacuum cleaners. I have found them to be good bream bait when salted, never tried them on snapper though......maybe later this year.

Sulla, the last few years mullet exiting the Bellinger river on the Mid North Coast of NSW, have headed straight out to sea about 3-400metres, then made a left hand turn and headed north. They have not run along the beach gutters in large numbers for about a decade, but run north in water about 10 metres or less over a sand bottom.
For the last 2 years in succession they have been taken by, and forgive me for being presumtuous here, tuna-bait fishers using nets from displacement vessels the size of small prawn trawlers.
It is my belief that this is becoming the preferred method of harvest for the Bellinger mullet as they head north, especially as the beach conditions and formations have not favoured beach-haul operation the last couple of years.
Then there is the fact that there is very considerable local opposition the beach-haulers behaviour and methodology, based on their behaviour over many previous years. Not sure whether the Qld K8 licence holders are still involved in the process. In previous years they have beach hauled locally by ostensibly working as 'crew' under a local NSW commercial licence holder.
Cheers.

[Slider]

It is inappropriate (just completely wrong) for wild fish from reducing and possibly endangered fish populations to be used in cat food anyway Rob. I should think that cats won't come in to this equasion - any government that argues that we can't shut down or alter the fishery because of cats, would surely be laughed out of government in this era of green preferences.

There are K8 licenses Rob that aren't operated each year, but there would be no prospect of more than 17 licenses being allowed under K8. Those non - working licenses are still generating income for the owners - the working licenses fund these licenses to stay off the beach and they may receive a share of catch earnings. I haven't explored how this works precisely.
The working license holders have combined resources. This allows them to coordinate their netting to maximise returns by not spooking each others fish. For example - on Tuesday, one group of pros netted north of Teewah while another group netted near the river mouth shortly afterwards. This after assessing many different schools and then selecting the 2 largest schools - they only get one crack at these schools for 1.5 to 2 weeks so each shot has to be as large as possible.
It also allows them to pool resources to fund efficiencies such as transport vehicles, forklifts and spotter planes.

Felt a bit ordinary myself Pete when I saw them camped at the mouth. We thought we'd solved that prob, but it turns out they're on private land and Council can't touch them. We'll see how this unfolds, cause it won't end there.

BG1000, I didn't know about the Moreton seiners being bought out - I had heard differently.
Tailor and other species are netted at Fraser all year round from Toolara Ck south and Nth Ngkala north under N1 licenses. The tailor are allowed as bycatch only but it doesn't matter which species are netted to spook any species that is commercially targeted by nets. And to have commercial fishing allowed at either end of a yellow zone causes the yellow zone to function at just a fraction of its potential as a 'fishing haven'. Much like sections of the Clarence only being allocated as Mattooty was saying. The netting at Sandy Cape spooks fish to Indian Head which makes the closed season between Indian and Waddy almost worthless. Netting south of Toolara spooks fish northwards to beyond The Maheno and south to Inskip and D.I. It is Sandy Cape and Southern Fraser that allows viability for the pros that work this region - otherwise they'd be sitting for days at a time on Teewah Beach or in the lakes waiting for fish to return after their previous nettings there. And like Fraser, the gaps in netting on the Sunny Coast are of little value also. The nets to the north of the Maroochy spook the fish to Noosa Heads and south to Caloundra where more netting occurs and at Bribie. The entire inshore fishery of the Sunny Coast is affected by nets and rec beach catches reflect that well. And if Straddie is netted, then the value of buying back the Moreton Licenses is reduced. Fish are altering migrations to stay away from this netting, and a few kilometres of non - netted beach will do nothing at all to change their already altered migration. This is the whole thing that I'm trying to get across - the management practices that are being adopted for our inshore fishery do not take in to account the behavioral changes in commercially targeted species.
I still maintain that beach netting can continue - with a reduced number of licenses being allowed to net areas strategically, based on the migratory and spawning habits of species within the fishery. This would lead to improved viability for the fisherman + improved fish stocks + improved fishing related tourism.

You are right Sulla - not many anglers are reaching bag limits anyway and reducing the bag would inconvenience few. The Fraser slaughterers would have their noses out of joint, but I detest the annual flogging that spawning tailor at Fraser receive and a 30 bag limit there is way too many.
The removal of commercial netters to protect tailor stocks would also be perceived as, and is in reality hypocritical with the catch stats of tailor in each sector as they stand. Although I don't actually believe that a rec catch at current levels, with current bag and size limits, would compromise the health and recovery of the species, with altered netting practices in place, to any substantial degree.

I laughed a little while back when sharks were a hot topic in NSW - a former beach seiner was interviewed on tv. He said that if they'd been allowed to continue netting, then there wouldn't be a shark problem. He stated that because there are so many fish inshore now, the sharks are coming in after them. Well ..... yes, that would be correct and is an official admission of guilt that beach seine netting reduces inshore fish stocks. But we all know that anyway.

lindsay

[Slider]

The mullet have started exiting all of the streams in that fashion I believe Nigel. Some schools have been found 15kms out to sea. This is one of the altered migrations that I am referring to.
I don't know who all of the owners of K8 licences are or where they come from. Their behaviour has been an issue here also and is why they were banned from camping on the beach near the mouth in the first place. The fact they are back there - or just behind the high tide mark - is causing some angry locals.

[mattooty]

On the topic of mullet running further out to sea, I noticed a massive amount of mullet straight out from the river at Evans Head on Tuesday.
We were approximately 1.5-2 miles out and had a black swarm of them rolling around the boat. I'm still yet to notice a huge change in mullet numbers on the Clarence. Beach netting is only permitted on Shark Bay as far as I know other than 1 or 2 small scale operators who work a small 'beach' at the corner of Iluka wall.

Slider, what have you found in regards to mullet seining in the river? Is this as detrimental to the surrounding fish stocks? I'd imagine that being a smaller, enclosed area that fish in the immediate surroundings would be scared off but due to the land formations, this would lower the effective distance that their fear vibrations send out.

[sulla]

Nigelr thanks for the info interesting sounds pretty bad wondered if you didnt totaly read what i posted if you read what i said

i stated that
1 member of ausfish

stated on a reply to something i had posted that netting of mullet didnt happen to be honest i wasnt go to fight with that person if he wants to belive netting of mullet doesnt happen its his prob no mine i know it does

slider keep up the effort mate

cheers

[nigelr]

Yeh sorry sulla, my mistake mate, should have read your post properly
Cheers.

[BLOOEY]

Hey guys me again. Went up there today and saw the netters myself and reckon they got 40t of mullet and 6 tailor. Lots of tuna busting up not far offshore and a few within casting distance but unfortunately not when i was ready to cast at them. Jump out of the car wade through a gutter and by that time..... gone. Wait for a while nuts deep in water for a no show and return to the car. You guessed it as soon as i get back BAM there they are again, pretty frustrating but good fun none the less. Caught a few flatties on softies in the gutters and mate got a few whiting. Also saw a fair few dart behind the gutters but they were not coming in. Low tide fishing off the spits would be the go for them i reckon.Ben

[Pistol_P]

Lindsay,

How is the mullet population surviving with numbers like that being netted..??

They go out to sea to spawn.....and they simply get netted so how does the population stay steady..???

Pete

[Slider]

Didn't hear of anything caught yesterday and didn't see any fish myself.

Pete, there's no evidence that any of the eastern or western Australian mullet stocks are staying steady. Log book records show that the commercial catch of mullet in Qld and the average catch per vessel had halved since 1988 up to 2001 - there are probably more up to date figures. This is despite the fact that the netters have become more organised since 1988 by combining resources which has increased efficiencies as well as there being quotas applied to the overall catch. The mullet are very resilient Pete in that they recruit well when they are allowed. But the change in their migration in recent years will reduce recruitment capabilities- spawning offshore instead of in the gutters to the north of the estuary. The same thing has happened elsewhere - the mullet (same species) in the U.S and Africa were resilient for decades with a slowly reducing population mass until all of a sudden the populations crashed. Same happened with tailor and other species. We believe that it's the altered migration which is a desperate attempt by the fish, once population levels diminish, to avoid the nets that 'fast tracks' population collapse.
It is hard to assess mullet populations as rec anglers for obvious reasons and we can only gauge from what we see in nets. See 30 tonne caught and the perception is that there is heaps of mullet. The truth be known, there would be many such large hauls each season in the 70s and unlesss you can remember seeing what it was like then, it is impossible to compare ourselves, the catches of today with previous years. But the stats paint the picture clearly and there have been quite a few pros in Qld and NSW come out in the media and state that there are less mullet today - they blame estuarine water quality. Is a bit like the perception that bream stocks are healthy - lots of people are catching juveniles in the streams and I hear it stated that there are heaps of bream. But the adult fish that used to inhabit the surf gutters, headlands and close reefs are all but gone - definitely in this area. The stories I could tell about bream on Teewah Beach in the 70s and now they are almost never caught.

Note: estuarine water quality of the streams that are netted is unlikely to improve in the near future due to agriculture and human population growth in the catchment areas of these streams. If it were possible to improve water quality, it would take years or even decades to achieve. And if current commercial activity remains unaltered, nobody could be certain that mullet stocks would improve with water quality. Therefore the only certain method of rejuvinating mullet/fish stocks in the short term, is to reduce commercial effort. To not reduce commercial effort soon, runs the risk of population collapse in several species. Recovery from population collapse involves shutting down the industry and recovery is never assurred even then. And be assurred that you can't have a permanently reducing population and not have population collapse - just ask the Yanks and Africans.

Then there is the example of Sydney Harbour - adjacent to Australia's greatest population and population density, where since the reduction in commercial effort, the kingies etc have returned to what I'm told is fairly filthy water.

Absolutely correct Mattooty!! Unlike the open ocean, the confines of an estuary restrict the penetration of alarm signals and secondary transmission (alarm signals relayed on by fish not in the net) - to some degree. Also, any 'area abandonment' in the estuary will be of a smaller scale - around the next bend, into the reeds or mangroves. I've watched mullet in Lake Cootharaba bolting away from nets into the reeds that surround the lake and under Teewah Landing that I was standing on.
So when the nets can only be shot from a point on the open beach that is no less than 400 metres north of the mouth of the estuary, and the mullet have learnt that that is where the 'predator' lurks, they avoid the nets by heading out to sea and compromise recruitment in favour of survival of self. If these same mullet were netted inside the mouth, they would have no need to alter their migration on exiting the mouth, providing that netting practices on the open beach have been altered in accordance. This also avoids alarm signals from netted mullet from penetrating the open ocean and spooking other inshore species. The migration and distance of, for tailor and mullet larvae from spawning location to estuary would be the same as it was before spawning migrations were altered and recruitment therfore maximised. I would anticipate that all species would revert to pre 'colonisation' spawning habits within 2 generations.
Netting would need to have strict quotas applied based on up to date stock assessments using acoustic techniques. Bycatch would be limited and efficiencies for the pro maximised.

Green groups have always had a problem with netting inside river mouths. But
this plan has been approved by Australia's leading authority on migratory terns that are protected by the RAMSAR International Treaty and a leading authority on shorebirds - Jill Denning.

This, I envisage, would be part of an altered commercial fishery that takes in to account the spawning, migratory and habitat requirements of each of the commercially targeted species. I believe that netting on the open beaches can take place at certain times of year for certain species without negatively impacting on population levels also - but it would take me an hour to write a synopsis of this plan.

From my point of view it would be far easier to just buy back all of the Cooloola licenses and be done with it - let the cats eat salmon.

[Outdoor Guy]

Shit i havent caught a Tailor for bloody years,thats why i moved out west lol.well thats one of the reasons anyway.Great to hear from you Lindsay havent seen your artical in the QFM last couple of months, whats happened no tailor no artical to write? The Yellowbelly i put in my dam in march have doubled in size so wont be long and you can come and catch some fish that the netters cant get LOL (they have to get past the dogs first lol )