I'm told by several sources that Tuesdays' haul was 30 tonne. Which I hear caused some dramas - the Markwells truck wasn't available and the fish had to be carted across the ferry in the pro's utes. They couldn't access any ice and it took something like 8hrs for them to get all the mullet to the co-op. Explains the many dead fish lying around Tewantin.
Brett, there is no question that the amateur take of tailor contributes significantly to the current low population levels. And I would like to see the bag limit reduced further and the size limit to 40cm. However, it is not necessarily the extraction of fish on its own that causes population collapse. We believe that behavioral changes in commercially targeted species in recent years, causing alterations to migratory and spawning habits is affecting recruitment dramatically. This combined with the extraction of fish that are most abundant when they are spawning is quite likely tipping the balance to the point where populations fall.
I expect the banning of tailor netting in NSW and the creation of Fishing Havens like the Clarence and Richmond Rvrs has helped recruitment in this area enormously. I think it is bizarre that these benefits are quickly eroded when the tailor cross the border into Qld waters though.
I now have some pretty clued up scientists from France, the U.S. and Mexico that specialise in this field, that are adamant that this is occurring around the world. Patrice Brehmer (Paris), tells me that my observations nearly match his and his colleagues observations nearly precisely after 10 years researching just this. Patrice has asked to collaborate on proving the theory and further research could be conducted in this region later this year by these gentlemen.
How long ago Brett was it that you saw the netting at Straddie you're referring to? This could be relevent and other factors such as haul size, fish age, spawning scenario and a heavy bait presence can reverse area abandonment in some situations - such as the method used by the Chinese targeting yellowfin tuna in the Solomons. I'm pretty sure that it is common knowledge among professional net fishermen that netting the same location these days on repeated days is futile - certainly every one that I've spoken to.
You've probably seen the study commissioned by the Queensland government into the value of the rec tailor fishing industry compared to the commercial value in the same regions - I haven't got it on hand either. But based on that study, one wonders why there has been such reluctance to address this issue.
Plaztix, good question and a hard one to answer in brief. We believe that any species that is currently targeted with nets, or has a recent history of being targeted with nets (within say 2 generations), would react to alarm signals by any other species that is trapped in a net - within hearing distance or secondary transmission distance. There are variables here also - haul size, fish age, time of year and type of netting - beach or ocean. Snapper aren't ever caught in beach seine nets, so I would doubt that this type of netting would spook snapper. Are snapper netted at all? - I couldn't establish that fact with a quick search in DPI.
Mackerel are an interesting species in this regard. The ring netting of mackerel was banned in (I'm guessing) 2003. And I have seen mackerel spooked by beach seine nets on a number of occasions - the last time was probably 4 or 5 years ago when mullet were being netted while spotties and schoolies were surface feeding close offshore. On Tuesday, they definitely seemed to spook with the nets again and I was wondering if, at some point, they'd lose their fear of nets. Well yesterday I picked up 4 or 5 schoolies off the beach and a small longtail (5 - 6kgs)and today the schoolies were in better numbers and I spun up a couple of mac tuna that were feeding well within casting range at the 3rd cut also. I did find 2 very small choppers amongst the mackerel.
So it may be that mackerel are now losing their fear of nets, but this may be confined to younger fish. Or, the amount of bait has played a role in reversing area abandonment and potentially it can be a combination of both those factors. Another successful haul of mullet could shut the mackerel down then - it remains to be seen on this score.
Crisp Bee, there are quotas on each of the targeted species. The question is whether these quotas are suitable for current and future stock levels. Based on the information that Fisheries have at hand, I would suggest that these levels would be fine unless what I'm saying about migrations and spawning alterations is correct.
Freeeedom, most of the surface feeding has been confined to the reef areas from the 3rd cut to half way to Teewah. The tailor have been congregating in one gutter only along this stretch - a gutter I had to myself for a while but a couple of trusted local friends have betrayed my trust.
I often feel I'm flogging a dead horse Stroadman, but I wouldn't sleep at night if I didn't try.
Last year I raised the prospect of revenue from vehicle permits in Cooloola being used to fund the buy back of licenses on the North Shore. The Minister's office eventually informed me that this revenue can only be used for 'terrestrial' infrastructure and I thought of burying the horse at that point. However, a phone call on Tuesday that originated from a Government source, indicated that this may not be the case at all and that the 'source' suggested that I continue the campaign.
The reality is of course, that the buy back of commercial fishing licenses isn't a cheap exercise and there aren't too many millions floating around the state coffers atm. There are seventeen K8 licenses that apply to Cooloola region alone. Therefore the funds for such a buy back will have to be derived from another source. I firmly believe that a salt water license would work well in Qld as it has elsewhere. But I am aware that there are good arguments against a licensing system and that such funds are already being taken from rec fishermen through taxes and boat regos. I therefore wouldn't personally be willing to push for saltwater licenses in Qld although they may help my cause.
So the vehicle permit revenue looks to be a worthwhile target and we are currently getting organised to pursue this with the new Minister. Any supporting emails from the general public can only be of assistance and can be sent to the Minister for Environment and Resource Management - Kate Jones - ccs@ministerial.qld.gov.au
- send me a pm or email - ldines@bigpond.net.au if any info required.
The downside with this is, that Moreton and Stradbroke and other areas would be unlikely to see any downgrade in netting pressure. However, Fraser Island would benefit, as the buy back of K8 licenses would force the individual who holds the Fraser license in to retirement.
Lindsay
Yeh i know the answer to that, when we ban cats as pets in Australia. There will be no demand then.You know when they'll stop netting???????????...........................
Thank for bringing this thread back slider. Very interesting read. So far down here numbers have been good but mainly choppers. Greenbacks will come soon if it follows last years pattern.
I havent fished for Tailor for long but over the last two years there is a noticable increase in choppers in the areas i fish at Ballina. It is now common to see them surface feeding well into the day up and down entire beaches. The only thing that shut them down recently was the flood, but they are back in numbers again now in quite a few locations i have found over the last two days. Unfortunately they are mostly out of casting distance and small just legals.I expect the banning of tailor netting in NSW and the creation of Fishing Havens like the Clarence and Richmond Rvrs has helped recruitment in this area enormously.
Thanks Lindsay, you've kept my hopes up. Will see how the weather pans out for next weekend. Fingers crossed the snapper are on.
In regards to snapper being caught in nets, i dont know if they were but I have seen pics of 100's of good size snapper ( most in the 6 - 8kg range.) in large nets floating beside boats in moreton bay. How they were caught, i dont know.
Please accept my thanks for your efforts Slider, even though I am on the Mid North Coast of NSW.
Forgive me for being frank, but I cannot understand what you Qld'ers find so terrifying about a saltwater licence.
It works, albeit not perfectly, in NSW, and at least gives the licence holders hope of a bit of a say in Fisheries' policy making.
The Rec Fishing Havens you mention are a good example of a positive outcome for recos, although I believe some are more effective than others, and as you know, I believe some are exploited by commercial operators who target the fish, particularly high-value mulloway, when they leave the safety of the RH confines, eg when they follow the mullet out of the rivers to sea.
Cheers, best wishes and good luck!
Thank you Nigel. You, or other NSW members may be able to assist me in a project I'm taking on. I hope to locate a person in NSW that has been active in stopping beach netting in NSW, or has good knowledge about beach netting and the improvement in fish numbers since the introduction of each of the Fishing Havens. I would like to be able to demonstrate the effectiveness of Fishing Havens and use this information to enhance my case in Qld further.
I keep hearing good reports of healthy numbers of 1yr old tailor in your area Deepfried. I'm told the Richmond had small choppers throughout the system a couple of months ago and the reports of greenbacks keep coming.
Swell picked up here overnight but there was a few small choppers in the usual gutter.
Discovered that the netters have set up camp at the mouth which they're not allowed to do. Think there will be a visit from council in about an hour.
Im the opposite Nigel,Originally Posted by nigelr
I would more than happy to pay for a licence in QLD....IF IT MEANT WE COULD BUY OUT THESE NETTERS.
I saw the results of the buy back in Botany Bay in NSW.....The netters were bought out and within 1 year there was a massive increase in fish numbers.
Pete
But the other side of the sword with the licence buyback was pretty sketchy though wasn't it?
A large majority of commercial netters took the more than substantial buyback (somewhere in the vicinity of 100's of thousands or near that) and then located in-active licences which they bought for less than half that amount.
This ended up with some cashed up commercial netters all laughing at the expense of recreational fishers.
On fishing havens, they will not work unless installed into a large surface area of a system at a bare minimum! What has been implemented here in the Clarence has but nothing more than a joke. They put in 3 or 4 areas, barely a cast wide which were placed in area's which have traditionally not been targetted by the pro's anyway. This made everyone smile and noone really knows any the better.
What has been put in place in some of the river systems in the south of NSW has been exceptional, with full system closures to netting and the response and visible increase in fish numbers is quite astounding really.
"A large majority of commercial netters took the more than substantial buyback (somewhere in the vicinity of 100's of thousands or near that) and then located in-active licences which they bought for less than half that amount.
This ended up with some cashed up commercial netters all laughing at the expense of recreational fishers."
Certainly true there Mattooty, from what I've heard/read.
As you said, there have been some Rec Haven successes, others just seem to me to be token exercises.
Still, better than nothing, or what existed previously, IMHO.
Definitely a long ways to go though, politics allowing.........................
Lindsay, when you are ready, let me know what you have in mind.
If I can be of help, I will. I don't know of anyone hereabouts who has had a win over the beach-haulers, though I do know that certain areas have been made unavailable to them.
Locally an area of beach was incorporated into a National Park (Bongil Bongil).
At the time this caused considerable consternation amongst beach fishers, given that prior to the gazettal, 4WD access had been allowed by the local Council.
Following negotiations with NWPS, locals retained vehicle access, albeit to a reduced portion of the beach, with a nominal permit system.
This has worked fine for the last 7-8 years or so, and has the bonus that commercial beach haulers are not able to operate within the Park.
Quietly I am wishing they would extend the Park boundry further south and incorporate the confluence of the Bellinger (which is a designated Rec Fishing Haven), thus excluding commercial fishers from beach hauling those fish that leave the river every autumn.
Maybe there are higher profile cases of successful exclusions of beach haul operations in other parts of NSW, as Mattooty mentions, southern NSW could well be worth investigating.
I feel you would be able to raise quite some significant interest and support from NSW rec fishers, given that they were made sufficiently aware of your cause, via the print media, internet forums, at a club level, etc. etc.
And yes, as Pistol Pete says, Botany Bay and Sydney Harbour have been extremely popular success stories, although I guess that is to be expected given the relative numbers of Rec licence holders in metro Sydney and surrounds, nothing like a show piece for the punters!
Cheers and best wishes.
Well it's not sounding all that good for my trip up there tomorrow. Maybe i can track down your'e mac spot slider. Ben
Shouldn't be hard to find Ben - was 7 vehicles parked on it when I went down this arvy and lures flying in all directions. Nobody was getting anything but rocks which is a little surprising with surface lures, but I suppose it's hard to get organised for a retrieve when the lure is only in the air for a couple of seconds.
Swell looked to be dying off this afternoon but no strikes in any of the locations I tried. Didn't see any fish caught and didn't see any fish in waves or feeding within sight of the beach.
Nigel, just looking for a person or persons that have good knowledge about a particular fishery that is now a fishing haven. So if there are 28 fishing havens, then I may need to talk to 28 different individuals about each of these to try and grasp whether there have been fish stock improvements in each - or in some - or in none. I am told that there has been 2 separate research papers completed by NSW Fisheries on 2 of the Fishing Havens and the success of. I can't track these down anywhere, so if anybody has any clues on where I might find them, I would be most grateful.
Pros are waiting for a large school of mullet that were inside the river mouth this afternoon, to exit the mouth, which they expect to be tonight or tomorrow morning. Should help things no end.
Slider
Is there a cap on the number of beach haul licenses.?
Are there latent licenses out there?
The pet food industry is huge.Where will they replace the resource from if we were successful in buying out the SEQ licences.
For those who don't know, I am not a supporter of beach netting as you know.
Just thinking through what the pitfalls of trying to get rid of these licenses are.
Last edited by rando; 12-06-2009 at 06:47 PM. Reason: typo
Yeah I saw them all lined upo near the first cutting this afternoon....Waiting..!!!
Makes you sick.!!
Pete
Shouldn't be hard to find Ben - was 7 vehicles parked on it when I went down this arvy and lures flying in all directions. Nobody was getting anything but rocks which is a little surprising with surface lures, but I suppose it's hard to get organised for a retrieve when the lure is only in the air for a couple of seconds.
Swell looked to be dying off this afternoon but no strikes in any of the locations I tried. Didn't see any fish caught and didn't see any fish in waves or feeding within sight of the beach
Yikes, Don't have very high expectations at all now.. A mate saw them today and described them as salty looking sea dogs,ha. Oh well i'm sure my brothers and mates little boys will have a ball anyway
. Might just try and get them onto some whiting. Ben
Rando - got to be something better than the status quo, how about Aust. salmon????
Plague proportions once again in many parts of coastal NSW, to the detriment of all other co-existing species. Reckon they could just about beach-haul 'em, too.
Then there's the countless feral mammals and birds............
Cheers.
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