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Thread: epirbs

  1. #61

    Re: epirbs

    Quote Originally Posted by BrewGuru View Post
    The real problem with registration of the new 406 registration is that the registered owner of the 406 unit changes with the ownership of the vessel or the ownership of the unit, that is the tuff bit of registration, how do you police that?
    BG,

    Good question.

    When you initially purchase a 406, both the dealer and purchaser are meant to submit registration........this falls down frequently and invariably the purchaser sends both.

    When you onsell the unit, both the purchaser and vendor are required to notify the national authority......which is in the vendor's interest because he does not want the phone call at 2:00 am. and in the purchaser's interest because he hates the prospect of sharks.

  2. #62

    Re: epirbs

    "the other two centres are Townsville and Cairns with similar flight times."

    1. There are also fully equipped SAR helo's at both Rky & Mky

    "and trust me, fixed wing will not be the initial response for 50 km off the coast.'

    2. Now that will totally depend on many factors and obviously more factors than you wish to include. Really that is a very inexperienced response as 50km off the coast in the total length of coastline can sometimes leave the most immediate response and closest response is fixed wing.

    3. Thankfully this will not be your decision

  3. #63

    Re: epirbs

    "The real problem with registration of the new 406 registration is that the registered owner of the 406 unit changes with the ownership of the vessel or the ownership of the unit, that is the tuff bit of registration, how do you police that?"

    1. There should be no problem with this. Just as registration is a legislated requirement so is the transfer of ownership (or any other relevent changes with registration) within 14 days.

    2. This is the responsibility of the transferring owner and effectively the new owner to also ensure

  4. #64

    Re: epirbs

    Quote Originally Posted by SatNav View Post
    "the other two centres are Townsville and Cairns with similar flight times."

    1. There are also fully equipped SAR helo's at both Rky & Mky

    "and trust me, fixed wing will not be the initial response for 50 km off the coast.'

    2. Now that will totally depend on many factors and obviously more factors than you wish to include. Really that is a very inexperienced response as 50km off the coast in the total length of coastline can sometimes leave the most immediate response and closest response is fixed wing.

    3. Thankfully this will not be your decision
    SatNav,

    So you have stated and acknowledged that QLD have 24 hour SAR helos at Brisbane, Rockhampton, Mackay, Townsville and Cairns with 500nm capability and your initial response to Scott's incident 50km off the coast........is by fixed wing aircraft.

    OK.

  5. #65

    Re: epirbs

    1. And don't forget Maroochydore

    2. Who knows? But Scott did say Far North Queensland didn't he? There is more to Queensland than the major regional centres you know

    3. Specifics are fine but also include the many and varied variables

  6. #66

    Re: epirbs

    1. Oh and just remember the range of the general Qld SAR rotary fleet are 500km not 500nm

    2. The emergency machine that lifted those drivers in the Whitsunday's yesterday was a Bell 412. Range is approx 500km

  7. #67

    Re: epirbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Chine View Post
    SatNav,

    Yes. I agree with all the above. It is recognised that there is a problem.

    To your knowledge, has this problem compromised (to any degree) the 406 GPIRB
    footprint for Insat-3A and if so how was this established?
    Bump.............

  8. #68

    Re: epirbs

    Quote Originally Posted by SatNav View Post
    1. Oh and just remember the range of the general Qld SAR rotary fleet are 500km not 500nm

    2. The emergency machine that lifted those drivers in the Whitsunday's yesterday was a Bell 412. Range is approx 500km
    What no fixed wing!

    That is 5 times that I have been wrong this evening........goodness it is a humbling experience!

  9. #69

    Re: epirbs

    1. Insat-3A even though the ground station is not totally commissioned still feeds all detections as if it was commissioned. One of those situations where something/anything is better than nothing

    2. GPIRB footprint? Unsure? But any GPS Epirb position is treated as suspect anyway until verified (independently) by doppler. Cospas-Sarsat does not rely on third party positioning such as GPS as the reasoning is they have no direct control of the third party system.

    3. They will only use a GPS position once it has been independently verifed by other means and this job comes down to the low orbit satellites which do have FOC

  10. #70

    Re: epirbs

    Quote Originally Posted by SatNav View Post
    1. Insat-3A even though the ground station is not totally commissioned still feeds all detections as if it was commissioned. One of those situations where something/anything is better than nothing

    2. GPIRB footprint? Unsure? But any GPS Epirb position is treated as suspect anyway until verified (independently) by doppler. Cospas-Sarsat does not rely on third party positioning such as GPS as the reasoning is they have no direct control of the third party system.

    3. They will only use a GPS position once it has been independently verifed by other means and this job comes down to the low orbit satellites which do have FOC
    SatNav,

    OK.

    So we are unsure as what exactly is the problem with Insat-3A which can only lead us to the logical conclusion that without formal notification, the footprint is generally sound.

    I would also like to understand why, despite the fact that the GPIRB is updating the computed GNSS position on a regular basis and by default auditing it's own outputs that C-S must quarantine the information until checked against LEOSAT computations?

  11. #71

    Re: epirbs

    “So we are unsure as what exactly is the problem with Insat-3A which can only lead us to the logical conclusion that without formal notification, the footprint is generally sound.”

    1. The limited operations tag of 3A with respect to the SAR package is recognized by Cospas-Sarsat by their own wording

    (The Bangalore GEOLUT tracking INSAT 3A has yet to be formally commissioned into the Cospas-Sarsat System. Nevertheless, the SAR alert data it produces is distributed to SAR Services.)

    2. 3A also does not have the same capability as the other Geo’s

    3. Until full operation capability then the correct thing to do is threat the output as such compared to the rest of the system

    4. In any case the low orbit sats will verify things

  12. #72

    Re: epirbs

    “I would also like to understand why, despite the fact that the GPIRB is updating the computed GNSS position on a regular basis and by default auditing it's own outputs that C-S must quarantine the information until checked against LEOSAT computations?”

    1. This is Cospas Sarsat policy and from their own policy/operational documents

    ### 406 MHz beacon message with encoded position data provides a unique position
    which may be very accurate in most circumstances. However, since the source of that position data is not under the control of Cospas-Sarsat, errors could remain undetected and confirmation of the encoded position via an independent source is also desirable.
    As several alert messages from the same beacon received through different satellites
    and/or different LUTs can all originate from the same beacon transmission and,
    therefore, from a unique input of navigational data, such confirmation of encoded
    position data can only be provided by a Doppler solution matching the encoded
    position.
    }

  13. #73

    Re: epirbs

    Quote Originally Posted by paul251 View Post
    As already stated, pulled off the P&W website, and it states within 90 mins in the above text. I guess that's worst case scenario, but it is what it is, or at least acording to P&W.
    1. 90 minutes is the Cospas-Sarsat "official" average time to detect and position a 121.5Mhz Epirb so P&W are mixing 121.5 times with 406 distances

    2. The 3nm distance sort of fits the official spec of 5km but this 5km is 87% probability

    3. The "official" average time to detect and position a 406 world wide is between 43-46 minutes
    Last edited by SatNav; 26-05-2008 at 12:14 PM.

  14. #74

    Re: epirbs

    ...so to the uneducated in this area does all this mean that GPIRB is still worth getting over standard epirb?

    Cheers

  15. #75

    Re: epirbs

    cause you lost me about 3 pages back hey. all i want to know is, is the new system better than the old. will THEY FIND ME if something goes pear shaped. i dont care about cost, just so long as it does what it is supposed to do,BRING HELP. SID

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