Reply With QuoteGosh for the bloody record I never said I invented speed retrieves!
Theres enough info here to put it all together, Im over explaining myself.
Old boot, the critical elements are correct.
Over and out.
Jas
Cheer up matrix mate we are all listening.
It is just as important to know that fast retreeves have been used in the past as it it to know that a new variation is working with new materials.
I am a technician & I have learned that there are very few entirely new ideas out there, BUT there are substancial improvements made in all fields by slight but significant modifications of old concepts to account for mew materials, needs and techniques.
The background of similar techniques supports rather that deminises what has been offered as new information.
From these posts we know
a fast retreeve works and has done for decades in avariety of situations.
a specific technique works in specific situations
What specific currently available items work and how.
Don't be put off by a little abrasion, nothing ever got sharp without a little abrasion.
Now back to this frog
the critical elemints would apear to me
Speed...barra sees something ripping past & thinks "WTF I cant lett that get away"
Vibration......the legs wiggle & jiggle........" definitely gota have a piece of that"
shape...... the horny toad looks pretty bullet like & problaby travels pretty clean in the water if it wasn't for the leggs doin their thing.
the hook comming out of the top and the frog traveling upright, giving a weedless operation and an exposed hook point.
the particular hook giving a towing point that keeps the frog traveling right.
Is this right.
cheers
Gosh for the bloody record I never said I invented speed retrieves!
Theres enough info here to put it all together, Im over explaining myself.
Old boot, the critical elements are correct.
Over and out.
Jas
Matrix mate, there is no need for you to explain your self & I think we are all more than happy that you have chosen to contribute.
cheers
Well .... all I can say is that I've never heard of high speed frogs for barra!
Slow bloops , dead sticking & Walk the dogs stuff!..... most certainly
If we think about frogs & frog profiles ..... they just are not designed to be continuously burnt IMHO.
I'm just happy to know of another proven technique
anyhow ... its got us thinking
Nagg
NaggOriginally Posted by NAGG
I'd say without a doubt that Togas will smash frogs ....... just look at the eyes on the things ( they just look like they're thinking ..... "Wheres a frog .. wheres a frog!"
Nagg
PS .... I'll be chucking some on my next trip to Cania
Toga love em. When i was in Kakky Doo, The bloke in Katherine pretty much guaranteed me a toga on a scum frog if i flicked it under the pandanus on the edges. One of the most memorable sessions i have ever had. He was right, they were every where.!
Attachment 25320
Cheers
Ben
How cool is that Ben! ..... It just seems like a match made in Heaven ( lovely fish toooooo in your pic)
Thanks
Nagg
Re: Frog patterns for Barra
I have had a Scum Frog for years, buggered if I can catch a Toga on one, I put alot down to the hook setup as the double hook sits flush with the body but Im not convinced that is the problem. Have had alot of captures with Jackall TN50, Cheers Whitto
I think the newer ones (bigfoot) have a softer body & a better hook set up
As for the burning retreeve being un-natural for a frog.
I think we need to remember fish are not posessors of a great intelect.
Yeh they can seem pretty smart at times but the majority of their responses will be instintive rather than considered thaught.
Poor old barry barra knows that that froggy shaped thing is good tucker and a fast moving thing on the top of the water is very likley to be good tucker, but it unlikly to get suspicious abot a frog shaped thing that is moving much faster than it should...............untill it has been hooked a few times then it might get a bit more ........" dificult to interest".......then we have to start offering something different.
cheers
Frogs hey!!!!!
I am taking all of this on board as I have to find a Barra for my wife next week.
Jas, dont stop talking to us, we need you mate.
Ok “we agree to disagree”…We have agreed with you on hundreds of threads over a couple of years. To focus on 1 thread where we disagree is to fucus on 1% of the whole scheme of things.
It’s like Heals scoring a 100 to win the game that was looking shaky for the whole 5 day test...he walks to the grandstand …all the way up the players walk where his team mates embrace him….expecting a well done from the coach he smiles at him…and when he gets in to the dressing shed the coach says " you missed 1 leg bye today!!!!" Any thoughts of the hundred being a positive thing are now gone by focusing on 1% of the equation...
Don’t forget, you have picked off a few threads on Ausfish yourself Jason...Coming in over the top to tell someone your side of the story fairly bluntly at times... Old and young you haven’t missed them either... a good stiff arm or 2 have been dished out with the other guys in the thread usually going missing from the game for a month or 2 after....but they came back. These guys were easy picking for you ..Sitting ducks at times.... Point is that you have never held back on voicing your side of things...So why can't we have our point of view & disagree whether it’s 1 in a 100 posts or 1 in 10? You disagree weekly with threads on here...& you keep playing the game each week… you tackle hard so you should also expect a hard tackle now and then..
Maybe 1% was directed at you…which you turned in to 100%.....the rest of he time we were talking about people we have talked to and life experiences up north…..relax we were just relaying what we saw. If we can’t do that on a freedom of speech site we may as well live in china and have 2 shotguns pointed at us if we dare to speak up. Every Aussie can have a chat around a campfire, Caravan Park or on the net…
“I don’t care what you say, you have seen in the territory. I to have been going there for 25 years.”
…We didn’t need to watch the videos or DVD’s or get In a “I go up there comp” We lived there for a long time…hate to have to say it but we have been there for thousands of days…But we don’t make out to know more than anyone and we are not better than anyone…Harro who is a member on here has spent many more days up there than we have so he would have seen some amazing things…We love to learn & fishing is just the icing on the cake for us as our work/life is already awesome…We shouldn’t have to be high on a Barra food chain to be able to share what we have seen on a Fishing site.
We have a right to relay what was seen by the whole family and friends….Hunting every day…watching and learning of aboriginals, it is awesome….We always have a wonderful time in the NT and are lucky to be welcome back by friends anytime…The generosity of people up north never ceases to amaze us…they’d give you the shirt off their back….It’s aussie culture at it’s best…
Point: It doesn’t matter how many days anyone has spent on Awoonga, NT or anywhere. From people who have never fished Awoonga to Johnny Mitchell who has caught, helped people catch & fished with friends to catch over 5000 Barra in the Gladstone region as a born and bred local. Any Aussie should be able to have a go at putting some of their thoughts, experiences and question on here.
“I’ve fished a million different ways.”
That’s great, 4 million other anglers combined also fish in many ways…it’s just their story & methods don’t get printed…The wheel has been invented, the tyres just get changed now and then…
“Burning:”We all learn from each other…no one does it all on their own…Many learn lots on Ausfish…
“40 years and not seen fast retrieves”
There is 18 month old footage of the fast retrieve on the surface at Lake Awoonga..It was done subtly so many might have missed it..but it’s there…this DVD was also watched over and over again by comp anglers who did well….Some even took notes…The maker of the DVD might shed some light on just how long he has been using the technique on lake Awoonga & surrounding areas…Guys at his level will most likely disagree with you on several pages of topics, we only disagreed on one point, and have every right to so. Don’t shoot the messenger because we are the first to disagree. Many would have been too scared to disagree that’s all.
The footage is there. If anyone has any doubt just go back through the Barra fishing DVD’s you added to your collection in the last year.
There’s a lot of bluff in your reply….
I’ll pm you with everything else we disagree on which keeps it off the net….I’m sure you will get a few pages from others in the future as well….The best people we have met in the last few years are fantastic aussie…many disagree with us on here which was great because if they didn’t we would have never met.
It’s not the info we are upset about….It’s the approach…..
Quiet often the more experiences we have, the more we realize things we shared in the past were wrong.
Olive Branch: We are up Awoonga now & you are welcome to come around for beers and have a laugh…I know you are busy and have driven past our campsite many times in the past…We could have had the frog, lizard, gecko and many sporting chats over a beer and laughed years ago. We are now thousands of Barra Topics down the road with Ausfisho’s that have called in for a chat. Keep posting because at the end of the day everyone will disagrees on something.
The photo’s are off decades old barra gear….hooks with Styrofoam, line on a stick…alveys & old hand lines with 100lb hand to hand combat line on it. Old double jointed lure & old nilsies without bibs…Even 25+ year old plastic jig heads…the only thing left from the plastic was the tail…We hope it jogs a few memories…
We wish everyone all the best on your next trip.
Cheers Lyndon & Kel
Just a few lines in defence of the young fishermen and women out there.
We all read their articles watch their DVDs and as far as I am concerned they are still inventing the new wheels and we are crazy not to listen.
I am certain that it was a young engineer that designed my baitcaster reel, mobile phone, my computer and if I want service or advice on these then it is always a young person who talks me through the process.
Sure, when I read or listen to a young person today on any subject he has experience in, I hear a lot of what I have heard or experienced before but, I also listen for the new stuff, the little patches of brilliance.
I have a young friend who is a saturation diver. They have invented more wheels in that profession than you would need on a B Double.
Myself, I am 65 and will not retire, (slow down and play a lot.) Most of my clients are half my age and I love working amongst them.
Most of my mates are retired ane spend there days studing there navel and driving there wife crazy. We sit and talk about the old days and Grand kids.
But I tell, you when I am not there talking to them you know where I will be. Out there with my son or son in law, hearing aids turned up pushing into a strong head wind, lisening to them and loving it.
Regards Gordon
Lyndon and Kel.Well .... all I can say is that I've never heard of high speed frogs for barra!
Slow bloops , dead sticking & Walk the dogs stuff!..... most certainly
If we think about frogs & frog profiles ..... they just are not designed to be continuously burnt IMHO.
I'm just happy to know of another proven technique
anyhow ... its got us thinking
Nagg
The above quote is the same for most blokes (myself included) who post here.
Now, I have read and re-read this thread several times to fully understand both sides of this. I will start by saying i have enjoyed reading all your posts..until now. Sorry. Thats my opinion....as you say, we are entitled to it.
Reasons. Jas did not invent high speed retrieves...and he NEVER stated that once...Fact. His entire post is related to AWOONGA...no where else. He is simply passing on a method with some crucial adjustments that he had worked out. He has a brilliant thinking fishing mind, that we ride off the back of when we try these techniques and catch fish. He could keep it all a secret to win the next ABT, but he chose to share with us.
Pioneers???? Well I agree with you, Aboriginals pretty much pioneered everything fishing in Aust. Slip forward to modern times and all those blokes mentioned are the modern day pioneers of new products and ADJUSTMENTS to existing methods to suit....they wrote articles, did videos and everyone followed...we loved it. These guys put impoundment barra fishing on the map and inspired all of us to be where we are now.
Where are they now??? do they continue to pioneer new methods....report on here....or even do DVD's anymore..Probably, but not in the capacity they used to. They are probably enjoying a social fish, kicking back and enjoying watching the new breed if impoundment guys like Jas take up the batton and continue where they left off. Whilst, no doubt offering advice and mentoring to these guys on the side. (except Harro, he still posts on here which we all really appreciate)......Skip forward to now, and the guys like Jas W, Johny M, Trevor B, Scotty Mc ect are the CURRENT DAY pioneers of barra fishing at Awoonga...IMHO. They try new things, adjust existing techniques and think outside the square....just like the pioneers before.... THEY THEN POST IT FOR FREE...no secret squirrel stuff. I mean, Jas writes for respected magazines, does DVDS he could just say 'by the mag or DVD..all the info you need is in there" but he doesn't. Thats what makes a true pioneer of ANY sport.
My personal defence of Jas, I have NEVER read any post where he has 'attacked' a newby because they are easy targets, in fact quite the opposite..he is always more than helpful with QUALITY advice, and he has the PROVEN results to back up that advice... At best I can recall he may have corrected a 'know all or two' who were giving false,misleading or inaccurate info to the masses for whatever reason. Most of these blokes have been to Awoonga once and become over night experts. Too bad if they get their nose out of joint and dont come back to the site for a few months. If you can find a post where he has attacked a genuine newby, please post it and I will stand corrected and apologise.
Lyndon and Kel, I haven't ever met you guys, nor heard a bad word about you both from anyone. I honestly enjoy reading your posts and fishing reports 99% of the time. For that reason, I really couldn't believe your posts this time.
The result. Unfortunately the top 1% of barra fishermen on this site has now stopped posting tips, proven techniques, accurate scientific data regarding barra and the impoundment eclogical structure, and genuine honest advice. I cant blame him either. I believe 99% of us will suffer for that. Speaking for myself, Thats why I am disappointed most.
Without the input from these current day poineers...we would all still be trolling aimlessly around the basin
cheers steve.
Last edited by Steve B; 27-04-2008 at 09:01 AM.
I've been thinking about the particular presentation in question.
the zoom horny toad, particularly when retreeved fast realy does not look much like a frog.....it realy looks to me more like a fish shape.
So I speculate that it is acting like a popper that doesn't pop, the legs acting as a vibration lure and the mechanical shape results in it running upright on the surace in a weedless presentation.
I argue that the fish probly does not identify the lure as anything specific even less as a frog, but more like a fast moving, food shaped thing that makes a noise & is problay in some form of distress.
what do you recon.?
cheers
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