Blacksheep Reel

[chief 1]

yeah them bluebackers would be close to it,it's a nice reel

[Tim_08]

Raef is right, I am the millionaire man! seriously though, I have spent ages researching these fine reels in all their forms.

For a start, the main reason reels like the Blue Backer and the Black Sheep came about is because the japanese gov't has declared the bass over there a noxious pest which must be eradicated, thereby killing the market for related fishing gear, which happens to be the largest sector! So companies like Daiwa have scrambled to turn their freshwater bass reels into more 'saltwater'capable reels. Which in many cases is simply anodising them a different colour and whacking in a few corrosion resistant bearings.

Blue backer has same frame, gear housing and drag as CVZ. same number of discs (7) etc and same rated pressure (5kg) this is accurate as I have tested a number of these reels and they all read around that number, with the exception of some that came from the factory with oil contaminated washers, giving readings of only 3kg or so. Easy mod for either Blue Backer or CVZ is an Erskines carbontex drag kit. When initially installed they test anywhere from 5-7kg, but with a few good fish to wear them in that increases to 9kg+. Both the Blue Backer and Black Sheep were designed as light inshore jigging reels, not really optimised for casting lures, whereas the CVZ is daiwas pinnacle round casting reel. As such the blue backer comes with a more basic centrifugal type cast control and a constantly engaged level wind, as casting performance is not high on the priority list. That's not to say a Blue Backer or Black Sheep won't cast lures, it's just that they won't do it as well as a CVZ can...

Interestingly the CVZ and CVX reels have been discontinued in the AUS/USA markets, replaced by the Luna, which is a mixture of both reels. But in japan, there is no such thing as the Luna, and the CVZ remains the top line round casting reel from Daiwa, with the exception of limited editions based on them such as the I'ze light or Ringa.

After all this research, for my heavy impoundment outfit I settled on a japan-spec CVZ-205 sourced by Raef and it has not let me down, although I haven't used mine anywhere near as much or caught so many enormous fish as Trevor (Awoonga) who also has the same reel.

Bottom line is, if you want the best round reel from Daiwa for casting purposes, go a CVZ, as Trev pointed out, Raef has been instrumental in sourcing these reels if you want a japanese spec model.

Sorry to ramble, but I hope this info has been helpful

blue backers, cvz, black sheep, i have all of those reels and they all have been through their paces, that is, wild fish in salt environments. We all should know that saltwater barra are much more vigorous than their freshwater cousins in lakes. Put the heat on a freshwater barra, and the show is over, put the heat on a salty and the show is just begining! Saltwater is the best testing grounds.
the cvz cops 50 lb braid , 6 to 8 kg of drag, and nasty thumbs whilst attached to an evil rod. the black sheep of mine, ( i have 2, they can generate 12 kg of drag and i/we ( my mates also) fish 80 lb braid and big lures for big fish in evil tide run, and horrid rock bars on 15kg blanks cut down to suit. It's pull 'em up tide and into deep water, or they go over the shallow bar downtide, and into deepwater and its goodnight irene!! Muscle up, push your tackle, and your a winner. Be even a bit whoosy, and you catch nothing!! My mate has had a cvz for a couple of years, and it has caught evil fish of varying species from 20 to 30 kg with heavy drag in slug fest reef luring situations. tunas, gt's sharks, 30 kg spanish, bla bla bla etc, plus all the fingermarks , bazzas, and the big snag hogging cod that live in gladstone harbour. i recently bought another cvz 300 A after observing the punishment that has been inflicted on the mate's reel. Top reel when you buy the upgraded handle such as the sheep's and the b backer's custom handles. It seems more comfortable and you seem more in control. It's just more suited to our fingers.
The blue backer's cast well and truely long enough distances, but do lack a decent heavy drag system. They have enough drag to land fish in a lake, but often i wish they had a more capable drag system. Upgrade is the go if u r looking for extra drag. 50 lb braid on these also, and your thumbs are required for that extra required stopping power.
All these 3 daiwa models are brilliant. I can't fault them.
The black sheep is the quietest of the 3, the blue backer seems the roughest. (this may vary between individual reels.) The black sheep casts fine, no problems with general lure casting. sensational drag system.
The best brand i have ever owned in 18yrs of baitcaster use, full stop!
johnny M

* fit, defined saltwater barra like this one certainly know how the perform when the 'hurt' is applied! An 18 kg salty, "as above" would laugh at an 'offer' from a 30 kg impoundment barra. Lake barra are strong, yet they lack any stamina. Salt fish in tidal run are as fit as a fiddle, and equally as commanding in "no give run for cover fishing situations"! Never say die seems to be their motto!

These two posts best summ up daiwa's round style bc's strengths and weakness's for me and as far as I've found so far there is no "successor" to the sheep as yet.
Tim

[BR65]

Hey Brian ...... As a matter of interest , What would you replace it with ????

Chris

Dont know mate, my jdm cvz-205 is veeery sweet, would love another, even the cvz-203A, tuned up a bit, is a great reel, hasnt let me down yet.
For less dollars, nothing wrong with the luna 203 with a drag kit, for normal, dont flog ya gear to death type fishing, mates got one and he wraps them, I just sold him a new one I had sitting in the cupboard for his second outfit.
I havent used the sheep at all yet, still sitting in its box, think that might change next summer.
Am waiting, still, for the drag kit for the zillion, want to give that a run over the Anzac day week end, totally differant style of reel I know, but I find after a couple of days full on casting with the barrels, the low profiles sit a lot more easy in the hand.

[NAGG]

Dont know mate, my jdm cvz-205 is veeery sweet, would love another, even the cvz-203A, tuned up a bit, is a great reel, hasnt let me down yet.
For less dollars, nothing wrong with the luna 203 with a drag kit, for normal, dont flog ya gear to death type fishing, mates got one and he wraps them, I just sold him a new one I had sitting in the cupboard for his second outfit.
I havent used the sheep at all yet, still sitting in its box, think that might change next summer.
Am waiting, still, for the drag kit for the zillion, want to give that a run over the Anzac day week end, totally differant style of reel I know, but I find after a couple of days full on casting with the barrels, the low profiles sit a lot more easy in the hand.

Hi Brian
After the Awoonga sessions , I came to the conclusion that the drum type reels are the go for distance point casting! ..... With 50lb nitlon on , I was definitely maxing out due to the diminishing spool diameter on the Zillions.
So , since I was double handed casting on 6'10" & 7'1" rods anyway ....... I reckon I could put up with the added wt of a drum type reel! ( fatigue was minimal after 4 solid days)
Mate .... I dont know how you can have any bit of kit unused .....

Chris

PS .... How long have you been waiting on the drag kit ? ... I want to do mine

[Tim_08]

Hey Brian ...... As a matter of interest , What would you replace it with ????

Chris

What are you thinking to fill your barrel barra baitcast void Nagg? calcutta te/conquest? Luna? cvz?

Tim

[BR65]

Hi Brian
After the Awoonga sessions , I came to the conclusion that the drum type reels are the go for distance point casting! ..... With 50lb nitlon on , I was definitely maxing out due to the diminishing spool diameter on the Zillions.
So , since I was double handed casting on 6'10" & 7'1" rods anyway ....... I reckon I could put up with the added wt of a drum type reel! ( fatigue was minimal after 4 solid days)
Mate .... I dont know how you can have any bit of kit unused .....

Chris

PS .... How long have you been waiting on the drag kit ? ... I want to do mine

Most of my stuff is down and dirty in the sticks mate, 10 to 15 meter cast, and let the fun begin, so line capacity hasnt been an issue yet, cept for the one time I was buried in a snag by a good fish and tried to free spool swim it out while I traced it with the kota, ping is the sound your mono backing makes when all your 50lb braid is gone.
Im not comfertable with double handed casting, must be my up-bringing as an alvey user lol, so I prefer the shorter rods, even my loomis cbr756 at 6'3" feels a little to long for timber work, but then again Ive never really fished Awoonga weed beds or points. Ive got a nice little 6'6" spin stick and Caldia Kix 3000 loaded with 20lb braid for that type of fishin, when the day comes.
Been waiting 3 weeks now for the washers mate, called in on Tuesday to see what was happening and was told they were still waitig for Erskines to send them down
As for un-used kit, strangely, since I found this barra gig, I seem to have become a bit of a tackle slut , Im currently trying to cull the number of baitcasters I own to a realistic level
cheers
brian

[NAGG]

Most of my stuff is down and dirty in the sticks mate, 10 to 15 meter cast, and let the fun begin, so line capacity hasnt been an issue yet, cept for the one time I was buried in a snag by a good fish and tried to free spool swim it out while I traced it with the kota, ping is the sound your mono backing makes when all your 50lb braid is gone.
Im not comfertable with double handed casting, must be my up-bringing as an alvey user lol, so I prefer the shorter rods, even my loomis cbr756 at 6'3" feels a little to long for timber work, but then again Ive never really fished Awoonga weed beds or points. Ive got a nice little 6'6" spin stick and Caldia Kix 3000 loaded with 20lb braid for that type of fishin, when the day comes.
Been waiting 3 weeks now for the washers mate, called in on Tuesday to see what was happening and was told they were still waitig for Erskines to send them down
As for un-used kit, strangely, since I found this barra gig, I seem to have become a bit of a tackle slut , Im currently trying to cull the number of baitcasters I own to a realistic level
cheers
brian

I too was a single handed caster ( I only learnt double handed a few weeks ago ...... you should have seen the birds nests when I started trying ) ...... Its actually quite good . My timber work is done with a 6'2" Miller (single handed).
gotto say though ...... longer casts mean less spooked fish ... even in the timber , though as I found out at Monduran ........ It makes for an interesting fight
Yep .... i'm a tackle stut ( but I'm still buying .... not culling).
Well I hope you get those washers soon ... & get to give em a big work out!
Cheers

Chris

[mikooh]

Hi Brian
After the Awoonga sessions , I came to the conclusion that the drum type reels are the go for distance point casting! ..... With 50lb nitlon on , I was definitely maxing out due to the diminishing spool diameter on the Zillions.
So , since I was double handed casting on 6'10" & 7'1" rods anyway ....... I reckon I could put up with the added wt of a drum type reel! ( fatigue was minimal after 4 solid days)
Mate .... I dont know how you can have any bit of kit unused .....

Chris

PS .... How long have you been waiting on the drag kit ? ... I want to do mine

Hi NAGG,

After reading your post about drum vs low profile reels, I pulled the spool out of both my zillion and my luna 253 for a side by side comparison. Without resorting to the calipers i would say that there is around 4mm difference in diameter and 10mm in width, both in favour of the luna. This brought me to the assumption that most of the distance advantage of the drum style reel would come from the extra width of the spool? and if this was the case then some drum style reels such as the calcutta 200 or Daiwa CVZ 100 would offer no real advantage due to thier narrower spools. interesting.

I can see a backyard casting test coming up tomorrow...

Mick

[wheezer]

to be honest from a casting reel perspective i don't think much of the 'sheep...a CVZ 253 would make a better proposition...don't forget it like all other variants is originally based on the CVZ's to start with! has the same amount of drag washers so a simple carbontex upgrade would make it more than capable, and the sheep is like the blue backer in that it isn't designed foremost as a casting reel and as such has the less effective centrifugal cast control...i'm looking to put together an XOS barra/PNG black bass outfit and the reel will almost certainly be a JDM CVZ253

[NAGG]

What are you thinking to fill your barrel barra baitcast void Nagg? calcutta te/conquest? Luna? cvz?

Tim

Good question Tim ......... From what I can see the CV-Z is now out of production ..... Though you can still get some out of Japan
Luna .... probably not
Even though I'm a Daiwa man ..... I will look at the Conquest DC ( JDM rather than domestic) ..... Trevor (Awoonga) raved about his (Calcutta DC)
Sheep or Bluebacker ? ... both possible ( & I can still get a sheep) .

So ... as you can see , I have no idea ....... but whatever it is ,,,,, I WANT ONE
Seriously .... I would say a CV-Z ( tricked) ... as my first option , then a sheep or Conquest DC

Chris

[Tim_08]

Wheezer Japan Tackle states that the 253 only has 4kg drag while all the other models have 5kg, is this due to physical size or number of the drag washers or type of drag? Like say Zillion vs. Hrf? And if so would that limit the max to lower than that of all the others drag even with the erskine drag upgrade?


Mikooh I would imagine that both spool diameter and width would play a role in cast distance. The wider the spool is the more line can come off without reducing the overall diameter And the larger the diameter the easier the spool will be to turn for the given force (think rear bike gears).

Nagg, I'm a daiwa man too but I do like the look of those conquests. I'm yet to play with one of the dc controlled reels but from all reports they are sensational. Hope it wouldn't effect the sense of achievement you get from being able to cast a baitcaster well though (I'd almost feel like I was cheating )


Tim

[NAGG]

Hi NAGG,

After reading your post about drum vs low profile reels, I pulled the spool out of both my zillion and my luna 253 for a side by side comparison. Without resorting to the calipers i would say that there is around 4mm difference in diameter and 10mm in width, both in favour of the luna. This brought me to the assumption that most of the distance advantage of the drum style reel would come from the extra width of the spool? and if this was the case then some drum style reels such as the calcutta 200 or Daiwa CVZ 100 would offer no real advantage due to thier narrower spools. interesting.

I can see a backyard casting test coming up tomorrow...

Mick

.
Mick you're spot on ........ & its why I'll look for a 250 size reel. I have a Calcutta 400 & its just too wide & stuffs up the balance .
What I did pick up ...... that even 2mm less line on the spool of the Zillion was noticable ( I had one full & the other had around 15M less) ......... The full line load cast better...... when used on the same rod!

Nagg

[NAGG]

Nagg, I'm a daiwa man too but I do like the look of those conquests. I'm yet to play with one of the dc controlled reels but from all reports they are sensational. Hope it wouldn't effect the sense of achievement you get from being able to cast a baitcaster well though (I'd almost feel like I was cheating )


Tim

Tim .... dont think the DC stops the old nesto ...... It dont! ( saw it first hand)
So dont think you are cheating ( just think as it as an improvement on the magnetic cast control theme) ...... Anyhow , you can turn it down

Chris

[mikooh]

.
Mick you're spot on ........ & its why I'll look for a 250 size reel. I have a Calcutta 400 & its just too wide & stuffs up the balance .
What I did pick up ...... that even 2mm less line on the spool of the Zillion was noticable ( I had one full & the other had around 15M less) ......... The full line load cast better...... when used on the same rod!

Nagg

And to think that I was just starting to love my growing collection of multiple bearing ultralite super tuned low profiles. Its taken years to wean me off my calcuttas and millionaires... then you throw a spanner in the works..

For Sale:

1x zillion CC, 1x steez 103, 1x core mg, 1x 50mg. PM for details.

Just kidding!

I will be testing your theory though.

Mick

[Tim_08]

Ha ha, he had the same effect on me. One Hrf started me off, then got my pe special zillion was then thinking Zillion HLC never even entertained the idea of a round type reel and then Nagg came along and said barrel type for pointcaster. So then I had to buy a sheep