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Thread: Re: For Moreton Bay Users

  1. #121

    Re: For Moreton Bay Users

    Come off it Matt. Tripcony has studiously ignored all requests for serious debate and has chosen instead to make no-content posts full of provocations. No surprise for the reactions you put up.

  2. #122

    Re: For Moreton Bay Users

    Desipte the post of lies or truths, mis-information, scientific fact, assertions or assumptions, this forum does not condone personal attacks ( name calling ) by members towards other members.

    The MBMP proposals are an emotive issue to those that use the Bay and getting a tad hot under the collar is expected, but I believe we are all entitled to our opinion, be it ill-informed, ignorant or educated.

    Regards

    Phill ( Moderating in Moderation )
    Kingfisher Painting Solutions:- Domestic and Commercial.

    For further information, contact details, quotes or advice - Click Here





  3. #123

    Re: For Moreton Bay Users

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_Campbell View Post
    I think you are either out of your depth and haven't got the balls to admit it, or you are just a fraud plant from the EPA – Jeremy

    Im sorry that the Burdens of Proof paper used too many big words for you Tripcony – Billfisher

    I guess those old timers are the ones that sit there during daylight hours and as soon as the sun looks like going down they head off home..I love that because by about 7pm in winter I am usually alone in the Passage...and that is when the fish start..winter before last..30 bream before midnight on one occassion..40 before 2am on 2 occassions...there are plenty of them there...maybe the old timers prefer the lounge chair once it gets a little cool and then sit and whine that there are no fish – Pinhead

    Tripcony, your point of view is narrow and uninformed – Flick

    How can I put it simply that even a pre schooler can understand – Pinhead

    you dumb buggers have been sucked in Tripcony – Pinhead

    It is fools like yourself who have the power to ruin this countries way of life – Flick

    To put it bluntly Tippers..you are nothing short of being a stupid old man...totally inept at listening to fact and doing some basic research of your own. It is people like you that are assisting these stupid grren movements in attempting to ruin people'e lifestyles...so how about you, and people like you go back to watching yout TV and let the rest of us live the lifestyle we want to live without inteference from doddering old fools – Pinhead

    just forget this Tripper .... he is obviously misguided and a bit out of his depth - jackinthebox

    G'day all,
    I have watched this thread with interest. I am amazed at the personal attacks levelled at tripcony (see above). This bloke has come on here to discuss his views and he has been abused (and remained calm to his credit). Its obviously a very emotive issue but I dont think personal attacks and name calling will do any of us any good?
    Matt C
    well Matt..in this entire debate over these ridiculous zonings, I am sick and tired of listening to the idiots..that's right..idiots who cannot or will not understand the facts..if they are that stupid..yes stupid, then they should not even enter into it. I have said previously that i am furious over these zonings with absolutely no scientific research to confirm what the EPA proposes...it is all just political claptrap and behind the scenes deals..now if a person cannot find the research and eventually realise there isn't any..what should I say..well done you are a Rhodes Scholar..sorry..i call a spade a spade. If you don't like it..not my problem.

    Maybe he has remained calm due to his prozac...but he has not once come up with research results to back his claims..after being asked many times..as I said..sick and tired of idiots that want to see our lifestyle taken away from us...to be honest I would be calling them a lot worse but I won't here.

    ( member has been warned for name calling of another member. Lucky_Phill, Moderator )
    Last edited by Lucky_Phill; 04-03-2008 at 08:17 PM.

  4. #124

    Re: For Moreton Bay Users

    Quote Originally Posted by PinHead View Post
    well Matt..in this entire debate over these ridiculous zonings, I am sick and tired of listening to the idiots..that's right..idiots who cannot or will not understand the facts..if they are that stupid..yes stupid, then they should not even enter into it. I have said previously that i am furious over these zonings with absolutely no scientific research to confirm what the EPA proposes...it is all just political claptrap and behind the scenes deals..now if a person cannot find the research and eventually realise there isn't any..what should I say..well done you are a Rhodes Scholar..sorry..i call a spade a spade. If you don't like it..not my problem.

    Maybe he has remained calm due to his prozac...but he has not once come up with research results to back his claims..after being asked many times..as I said..sick and tired of idiots that want to see our lifestyle taken away from us...to be honest I would be calling them a lot worse but I won't here.
    What I've highlighted may be true, but you have not come up with any proof to say they dont work. I haven't seen any refernces to any refereed papers to say they do not work? Or am I mistaken?
    Matt C

  5. #125

    Re: For Moreton Bay Users

    What I've highlighted may be true, but you have not come up with any proof to say they dont work.
    Assuming by 'work' you mean that bigger fish live in those areas, they breed more, create spillover etc, etc. I think there has been sufficient papers mentioned here disputing the effectiveness of green zones, but even IF they do work, is there any 'work' that needs to be done?

    If fishing is sustainable as the DPI+F has proven that it is in Moreton Bay, why do we need green zones regardless of whether or not they 'work'?

  6. #126

    Re: For Moreton Bay Users

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_Campbell View Post
    What I've highlighted may be true, but you have not come up with any proof to say they dont work. I haven't seen any refernces to any refereed papers to say they do not work? Or am I mistaken?
    Matt C

    So Matt, you believe that every time the government wishes to implement or change a law, they shouldn't have to show that it is feasible or beneficial. You believe that it is up to the public to show reason against a proposal.

    This is an amazing breakthrough in logic.

    Jim

  7. #127

    Re: For Moreton Bay Users

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_Campbell View Post
    What I've highlighted may be true, but you have not come up with any proof to say they dont work. I haven't seen any refernces to any refereed papers to say they do not work? Or am I mistaken?
    Matt C
    Nice one Matt, you have just employed a logical fallacy:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof

    Negative proof

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    This article is about a logical fallacy. The term "negative proof" can also refer to a proof of impossibility.
    Negative proof, the fallacy of appealing to lack of proof of the negative, is a logical fallacy of the following form:
    • "X is true because there is no proof that X is false."
    It is asserted that a proposition is true, only because it has not been proven false. The negative proof fallacy often occurs in the debate of the existence of supernatural phenomena, in the following form:
    • "A supernatural force must exist, because there is no proof that it does not exist".

    In the case of green zones in Moreton Bay its pretty obvious that the burden of proof lies with proving that green zones will give a benifit. Ie given that there is no problem of overfishing to begin with and the negative socio-economic consequences of extensive green zones. Such proof just isn't there.

  8. #128

    Re: For Moreton Bay Users

    To those in favour of the EPA's point of view

    Please explain how the closure of areas like MNP14 to recreational fishing will have any significant impact on the long term viability of the Moreton Bay ecosystem. The only rec fishing that I know in this area is for transient pelagic species such as Mackeral and Tuna (if anyone has a secret reef spot here feel free to PM me)

    If it aint broke then don't try to fix it. If the EPA was consistant in its protection policies and if their decisions were supported by viable academically rigorous peer reviewed literature specific to the region then I would probably not be as angry as I am
    A Proud Member of
    "The Rebel Alliance"

  9. #129

    Re: For Moreton Bay Users

    I was merely pointing out the fact that there has been no references to peer-reviewed research to say that MPA's do not work. A constant argument put forward by people on this thread has been that there is no research from Moreton Bay saying that MPA's do work. I was pointing out the fact that there hasn't been research to prove they don't work either.
    Matt C

  10. #130

    Re: For Moreton Bay Users

    You will never find any Matt. Its virtually impossible to prove a negative in a complex subject like this. And its certainly not where the burden of prooof lies.

  11. #131

    Re: For Moreton Bay Users

    I am almost too incensed to key - or too sh*tfaced and legless !
    Have worked 14-16 hour days for the last fortnight supporting a local mayoral candidate.
    Seems we may have lost by an eyeblink.
    The scaremongering, blatant LIES of the "Save our Passage" group has been enough to turn the tide.
    Never EVER will I have the slightest respect for the opinions or actions of right-wing, redneck anti-science lying cretins.
    These arseholes have convinced just enough locals that the proposed EPA zonings will somehow
    welcome professional fishing back into Pumicestone Passage (?),
    that people may not anchor, swim, camp, ski or bloody BREATH in the proposed tiny extension to the Tripcony no-take zone,
    that Real Estate values will somehow be negatively impacted by measures designed to ensure MORE fish,
    etc etc etc
    Well, congratulations fellas.
    Talk about royally screwed. !

  12. #132

    Re: For Moreton Bay Users

    Thanks for that tripcony - at least we know where your coming from now that you have told us about your political activities. And its the Left that has been more and more anti-science these days. Check this out:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics

    The Sokal affair
    Probably the most famous critique of postmodernism from within the left came in the form of a 1996 prank by physicist and self-described leftist Alan Sokal. Concerned about what he saw as the increasing prevalence on the left of "a particular kind of nonsense and sloppy thinking that denies the existence of objective realities, or downplays their practical relevance?" [6], Sokal composed a nonsensical article entitled "Transgressing the Boundaries: Toward a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity" [7] , in which a mix of mis-stated and mis-used terms from physics, postmodernism, literary analysis, and political theory are used to claim that physical reality, and especially gravitation, do not objectively exist, but are psychologically and politically constructed.

    The journal Social Text published the paper in its Spring/Summer 1996 issue, whereupon Sokal publicly revealed his hoax. While some saw Sokal as attacking leftism in general, he was very clear that this was intended as a critique from within:

    Politically, I'm angered because most (though not all) of this silliness is emanating from the self-proclaimed Left. We're witnessing here a profound historical volte-face. For most of the past two centuries, the Left has been identified with science and against obscurantism epistemic relativism betrays this worthy heritage and undermines the already fragile prospects for progressive social critique. Theorizing about the social construction of reality won't help us find an effective treatment for AIDS or devise strategies for preventing global warming. Nor can we combat false ideas in history, sociology, economics and politics if we reject the notions of truth and falsity. The results of my little experiment demonstrate, at the very least, that some fashionable sectors of the American academic Left have been getting intellectually lazy. [8]

  13. #133

    Re: For Moreton Bay Users

    Quote Originally Posted by Tripcony View Post
    Have worked 14-16 hour days for the last fortnight supporting a local mayoral candidate.
    Seems we may have lost by an eyeblink.
    Well, congratulations fellas.
    Talk about royally screwed. !
    So sorry for your loss Tripcony

    I think I can speak on behalf of most Rec fishos in saying we also know what its like to be royally rodgered . At least in your case it was a fair and open decision in a democratic election. In our case we are being shafted through what appears to be a series of backroom dirty political dealings

    Commiserations

    Neil
    A Proud Member of
    "The Rebel Alliance"

  14. #134

    Re: For Moreton Bay Users

    Well said Neil, couldnt agree more,

    and Trip I wonder what you make of all the scaremongering and blatant lies of the AMCS regarding Moreton Bay.


    mike
    Tangles KFC


  15. #135

    Re: For Moreton Bay Users

    Quote Originally Posted by Tripcony View Post
    I am almost too incensed to key - or too sh*tfaced and legless !
    Have worked 14-16 hour days for the last fortnight supporting a local mayoral candidate.
    Seems we may have lost by an eyeblink.
    The scaremongering, blatant LIES of the "Save our Passage" group has been enough to turn the tide.
    Never EVER will I have the slightest respect for the opinions or actions of right-wing, redneck anti-science lying cretins.
    These arseholes have convinced just enough locals that the proposed EPA zonings will somehow
    welcome professional fishing back into Pumicestone Passage (?),
    that people may not anchor, swim, camp, ski or bloody BREATH in the proposed tiny extension to the Tripcony no-take zone,
    that Real Estate values will somehow be negatively impacted by measures designed to ensure MORE fish,
    etc etc etc
    Well, congratulations fellas.
    Talk about royally screwed. !
    does this mean that your pro green zones candidate got beaten? If so..you bloody bewdy..there is enough left wing hypoctrical environmental people in politics as it is..thankfully intelligent people prevented another one from getting there.

    Now if the Save Our Passage Group told a few lil porkie pies then who cares..the AMCS and the other green groups have been using that tactic for years to get their way.

    All I can say is ..YIPPEE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

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