Reply With QuoteMost interested Tully
Some of you may think this is a total crock, but I have a mate who was born and grew up in Vanuatu. He and his brothers were keen fishermen and Cuda were a big part of their diet, easy to catch. Ciguatera is well known to the people of Vanuatu.
He said they have an almost instant cure for poisoning, which involves the leaves of a certain tree and something else which I can't remember. The leaves have to be just right, not just any. They have to be a particular size and age and believe it or not, pointing the right way, up or down, or something.
I know there is little that our doctors can do to treat it, but I believe him, a very earthy guy who just doesn't talk crap.
Will find out more when I see him next, and get the full story.
Most interested Tully
O.K. everyone I haven't forgotten my promise to ask my mate about this, but he has been overseas for a while. Just caught up with him today. He can't identify the name of the plant they use in Vanuatu, at least not in English anyway. He just knows what it looks like.
But he did say that the other method they use to tell if fish is safe to eat, is to simply cut a small piece off ( raw )and throw it on the ground. If the ants eat it, it's O.K., if they won't touch it, people don't eat it.
Last edited by tully; 17-04-2008 at 07:16 PM.
Originally Posted by tully
But he did say that the other method they use to tell if fish is safe to eat, is to simply cut a small piece off ( raw )and throw it on the ground. If the ants eat it, it's O.K., if they won't touch it, people don't eat it.
Well I can tell ya do that at ya own risk!!! Bloody ants were crawlin all over me whne I was cuttin up m y fish.. which was loaded with Ciga
Garry
Retired Honda Master Tech
Ha Ha, yes Garry. I should have included a disclaimer in that useless bit of info
Maybe Pacific Island ants are smarter than ours.
Back to the drawing board.
Last edited by tully; 17-04-2008 at 07:59 PM.
dont know about the ants but my old man always tried a piece of the raw spanish or reef fish on the cat and if he didnt eat it then we didnt,,, he reckoned it was a sure fire test for cig
I caught a 34 kilo spanish up at hervey bay and we tried it on the cat and he wouldnt eat it and he normally loves fish ,,,, so we used it for crab bait
OK crew...from a former pro fisherman here is the juice I have to share.
cigga starts from the small critters that the smaller fish feed on around the reefs.
bigger fish feed on them and so on and so....until the larger fish have such a build up of the poison in their system that it becomes a problem to us.
you cannot tell if a fish has it unless you test it before you eat it , which means sending off samples to a lab and freezing you fish and waiting for the results to be returned. (so there go's fresh fish)
ANY fish that is reasonably large for it's species IS a risk...eg..spanish over 10kg , coral trout over 8kg ect...ect..get the picture , I even got sick from eating nobby snapper so go figure.
you may eat 50 large fish and not get it but then all of a sudden you come down with it.....why??? ..because you have built up a load in your system and it kicks in.....the straw that broke the camels back syndrome.
areas are not such a problem as fish will travell through the same areas year after year if the feeding is good...so that may have something to do with noosa and hervey areas...good feeding grounds...good fishing....dynamite looking for a lit match....lol.
hope this snippet helps you lot try and avoid copping a dose of cigga as it is NOT fun to get.
years ago when I was pro reef fishing we were not allowed to take any fish over 20kg back to the mothership....but now they have dropped that size somewhat to try and eliminate the cigga risk.
happy fishing.
pickers
hi all, my old granddad used to tell me (reef) anything longer than your arm can cause u harm. when i fish the reef i will let go BIG fish including macks. i was told that little reef fish get it from eating coral & than the predators eat the little reef fish & so on. any BIG reef fish can get it, but no probs eating a big trout or mack from around the islands.
ron.
reels screamin aboard Hyper- Active
Just caught a big spaniard (maxed out the 25kg scale before it was 3/4 off the ground) yesterday in Hervey Bay (at 16mile ledge if anyone;s interested) Tried about 4 mouthfuls strait off the barbie when we finished filleting it. No symptoms at all early or now - 24hrs later. DO you think I could assume it's free of ciga or would I need to eat more to get a symtoms. Safe or not - what does the Ausfish 'hive mind' think?
Dont know 16mile ledge, but if its up platypus way, but i wouldn't eat it & at that size i probably wouldnt regardless.. Leigh
Don't bother with it. Not worth the risk.
Send to me for checking, preferably crumbed.
only around 10m from elliot headsDont know 16mile ledge, but if its up platypus way
Hi, here is a description that I got off the web:
Ciguatera is a food bourne illness caused by eating certain reef fish whose flesh is contaminated with toxins originally produced by dinoflagellates such as Gambierdiscus toxicus which live in tropical and subtropical waters. These dinoflagellates adhere to coral, algae and seaweed, where they are eaten by herbivorius fish who in turn are eaten by larger carnivorous fish. In this way the toxins move up the food chain and bioaccumilate. According to Dr. McBoomlis Gambierdiscus toxicus is the primary dinoflagellate responsible for the production of a number of similar toxins that cause ciguatera. These toxins include ciguatoxin, maitotoxin, scaritoxin and palytoxin. Predator species near the top of the food chain in tropical and subtropical waters, such as barracudas, snapper, moray eels, parrotfishes, groupers, triggerfishes and amberjacks, are most likely to cause ciguatera poisoning, although many other species cause occasional outbreaks of toxicity. Ciguatoxin is odourless, tasteless and very heat-resistant, so ciguatoxin-laden fish cannot be detoxified by cooking/freezing. The symptoms can last from weeks to years, and in extreme cases as long as 20 years, often leading to long-term disability. Most people do recover slowly over time. Often patients recover, but symptoms then reappear. Such relapses can be triggered by consumption of nuts, seeds, alchohol, fish or fish-containing products, chicken or eggs, or by exposure to fumes such as those of bleach and other chemicals. Exercise is also a possible trigger.
Some people can eat suspect fish for decades, slowly accumilating the toxin before being hit and some will get it out of a single meal. I got ciguatera at the end of 1999, might have been an accumilated effect but no way to tell, I had a piece of Queen fish from the Hervey Bay area which was labled as "Fillet of reef fish" in the supermarket. That tipped me over and hit me about 4 hours later, occasionally get mild reminders every now and then depending on what I eat. Knocked me around for about 5 months. Thai food is out for me as they use a lot of fish sauce in their recipes. Had two reminders so far from different restaurants so not going back to try for a third.
Generally don't eat fish now, except for the odd "flake" when I go down to Melbourne but that is from School shark caught in cold victorian waters.
Cheers
Ed.
Good read this thread.
I have eaten quite a few big Spaniards and trout - I will think twice next time
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