Barra leader systems

[Awoonga]

Leaders .......yes twisted, wire, long short...or twisted braid...been there done that..gone back to 80lb single at Awoonga..cant see the point now we only have weed beds....

[Pistol_P]

These leader systems sound great. Will have to learn how to do these. Do you guys know of any instructions with pics, yes I like pics lol, that are on the net to help dummies like me.
Thanks
Billyboy

Look on www.fishnet.com.au and go the library section.....or it may be just under Knots and rigs....cant remeber..?.....But they have a very good knots and rigs section and wind on leaders are explained with small diagrams.
It from Geoff Wilsons book.

Wind on leaders are very good and not that hard to make.
Even easier when shown.

Pete

Just got the link.
http://www.fishnet.com.au/knotsrigs/knotsrigs.html

[vet]

I have tried most leader systems, from 30 to 100lb mono and flurocarbon single leaders tied with albrights and also as wind on leaders, wire, knottable steel wire and full twisted leaders of 40 to 60lb. I originally used twisted 60lb mono and hardly ever lost a fish dt leader failure. Ben then convinced me that this reduced lure action too much and I would get more bites with single strand leader of 50lb tied with an albright. He is probably right during the day but too many fish were biting me off, so I went up to 80lb but the albright just won't go through the guides of my loomis crankbait so this brought the windon leader into play. This seemed to be fine but I just didn't like the big length of dacron going over the barras head so I scrapped this as well. I used slick rigs for a while last year and no leader system was good enough to prevent bite offs so I was forced into using wire for the slick rigs at night. This worked fine. I've gone back to hard bodies lately and returned to my original twisted leaders which again haven't let me down once and we have been catching big fish lately. It's funny how you go with the trends and stop using something that is working perfectly only to return to it after a while and find that it still works. happy new year, scott.

[The BeaR]

Hi All...Happy New Year!

As you may already realize, I use wind-on leaders for all my fishing now. The leaders for my Barra consist of 50lb cortland greenspot dacron and 80lb black magic leader. When making the dacron splice, I use a bit of dactac on the end of the splice before I pull it through itself, this stops the end from coming back out. I also whip finish the dacron to the mono, then I coat this with 480 loctite. I also put a little of this 480 loctite at the other end of the mono for a bit more security. The length of the dacron only needs to be about 7" in total and a leader length of what ever you are comfortable with.
I can wind this leader all the way on to the spool and does not detract from any of my casting distance. I join this by a simple loop to loop connection by using a very short bimini double, a 30 twist is quite sufficient. The loop that I end up with is usually about 3" in length.
The reason I started using the wind-ons was that we were simply looking for a much stronger leader connection. I used to join my knots using the albright connection but found with a good sized fish and a lengthy fight, the knot would eventually cut through and found it was always the weakest point.
The other good thing about this connection is that I use a loop connection to my lure and even though every time you change a lure it does shorten the leader, when the leader becomes too short, all you have to do is simply connect a new leader to the same double. Whereas with the knot connections, every time you re-tie you lose at least a foot and half of good braid. Sooner more than later, you have to respool your reel.
I also use these leader connections for all my offshore Snapper fishing and whatever else wants to have a go. Since I've been using these connections I don't have the failures like I used to when using knot connections.
These leaders are not hard to make and well worth the little bit of time and effort.
To find out how to make these leaders, get your hands on Geoff Wilsons "Rigging braid, dacron and gel spun lines".
Good fishing to all for 2008

Eric&Deb...

[NAGG]

Hi All...Happy New Year!

As you may already realize, I use wind-on leaders for all my fishing now. The leaders for my Barra consist of 50lb cortland greenspot dacron and 80lb black magic leader. When making the dacron splice, I use a bit of dactac on the end of the splice before I pull it through itself, this stops the end from coming back out. I also whip finish the dacron to the mono, then I coat this with 480 loctite. I also put a little of this 480 loctite at the other end of the mono for a bit more security. The length of the dacron only needs to be about 7" in total and a leader length of what ever you are comfortable with.
I can wind this leader all the way on to the spool and does not detract from any of my casting distance. I join this by a simple loop to loop connection by using a very short bimini double, a 30 twist is quite sufficient. The loop that I end up with is usually about 3" in length.
The reason I started using the wind-ons was that we were simply looking for a much stronger leader connection. I used to join my knots using the albright connection but found with a good sized fish and a lengthy fight, the knot would eventually cut through and found it was always the weakest point.
The other good thing about this connection is that I use a loop connection to my lure and even though every time you change a lure it does shorten the leader, when the leader becomes too short, all you have to do is simply connect a new leader to the same double. Whereas with the knot connections, every time you re-tie you lose at least a foot and half of good braid. Sooner more than later, you have to respool your reel.
I also use these leader connections for all my offshore Snapper fishing and whatever else wants to have a go. Since I've been using these connections I don't have the failures like I used to when using knot connections.
These leaders are not hard to make and well worth the little bit of time and effort.
To find out how to make these leaders, get your hands on Geoff Wilsons "Rigging braid, dacron and gel spun lines".
Good fishing to all for 2008

Eric&Deb...

Thanks Eric ....... You see it the same way as I do ( though its untried for me on barra). I've never had one of my wind ons fail in the salt ....... specially when fishing for big Kings & Jews around tough reef/wrecks where lock ups are orders of the day!

Eric .... you just use a std loop to loop connection as opposed to a cats paw ???

Cheers
Nagg

[The BeaR]

Hi Nagg...

Sounds like you know where I'm coming from, you should give them a go on the Barra lakes as they work every bit as well, and yes I just use a straight loop to loop connection because I can't see anything else to get the buggers undone.LOL. I haven't had the connection give me any trouble, and I do fish very heavy drag settings.

Eric&Deb...

[Mak579]

Hey Guys,

There are many different leader arrangements out there now that are quite effective, I use several so can't tick any one of the boxes above.

Scott (Vet) makes a great point, match your leader to your lure presentation.

Last thing is to be confident in whatever setup you have, test it before you get on the water and give yourself every opportunity of catching your trophy fish!

Matt C

[black_sheep]

I have always used a 70 turn bimini to 80lb Penn 10X using an albright and finished off with a loop knot to the lure. All connections have always held and have never had a problem with bulky knots (we do use kevlar to make sure the albright pulls up snug) as this can be bulky if the knot is not fully pulled up. I still have had fish bust the 80lb leader (especially at Monduran and Faust) but that's timber fishing no matter what pound you use. I started to use twisted leaders at Awoonga for plastics but kept straightening the 80lb snaps on weed beds so changed back to straight 80lb.

Big Ren - You making it all too complicated and as Gazza would say, just tie on a bloody granny knot and go fishing . I also see that you or Eric have convinced Ben the oven mit man.

[black_sheep]

Just read this back and forgot to add the word 'gloves' after kevlar - sorry.

[Barraboy7]

Hi guys
I went thru this whole journey when I started chasing big Barra, Double or not, knot choice, leader config etc like I guess most serious people do when they approach this sport as the last thing you want is to be hooking that great fish and having your terminal ends letting you down.
After my questioning and exploring on this forum and thru direct contact, I discovered the diversity of choices settled on by different peope is considerable.

And I think fair enough to state that a good many systems work very well. I was surprised tho with contact with one of the most succesful and most published fishos on Awoonga, that a simplified or minimal approach with less complicated knots, leaders etc rarely let him down.

So I have now been for quite some time using this with my son and have never been let down yet.
No Bimini. No Double !! I tie 50lb single strand braid with a well tied Slim Beauty straight on to 60 or 80lb Black Magic. Never had a problem ever. Why do you need a double???
(Harro states that Biminis in Braid are far less strong and reliable and consistent then in mono.)
Also the more knots you tie the more likely the chance of failure. That piece of advice may be good for some, but I do understand some people have a great passion for detail and each to their own I say.
The only time I vary that is casting in timber and then I use an Erskines Twisted leader, with a strong Halco crosslock snap clip for the lure as advised.

No matter how strong barra are, Marlin they are not, and they will tire relativley quickly compared to many blue water species, like tuna and trevors which would pull a barra backwards all day. You just dont have to brick them with massive overkill in open water. I appreciate in timber its more tricky.
Great if you want to play with complicated leaders, but for learners reading I suggest most of this is far from necessary. Dont think you need to learn all this complicated approach to consistently catch barra.
Good knots, strong hooks and split rings, and ease up on the drag especially in open water will bring most barra beside the boat OK.
Thats not a criticism to all written above, just simply wanting to state there are a lot of very successful simple approaches as well.
Great thread Nagg.
Barraboy

[eotbmg]

Just read this back and forgot to add the word 'gloves' after kevlar - sorry.

Are you talking about gloves? or welding mitts???

[NAGG]

Hi guys
I went thru this whole journey when I started chasing big Barra, Double or not, knot choice, leader config etc like I guess most serious people do when they approach this sport as the last thing you want is to be hooking that great fish and having your terminal ends letting you down.
After my questioning and exploring on this forum and thru direct contact, I discovered the diversity of choices settled on by different peope is considerable.

And I think fair enough to state that a good many systems work very well. I was surprised tho with contact with one of the most succesful and most published fishos on Awoonga, that a simplified or minimal approach with less complicated knots, leaders etc rarely let him down.

So I have now been for quite some time using this with my son and have never been let down yet.
No Bimini. No Double !! I tie 50lb single strand braid with a well tied Slim Beauty straight on to 60 or 80lb Black Magic. Never had a problem ever. Why do you need a double???
(Harro states that Biminis in Braid are far less strong and reliable and consistent then in mono.)
Also the more knots you tie the more likely the chance of failure. That piece of advice may be good for some, but I do understand some people have a great passion for detail and each to their own I say.
The only time I vary that is casting in timber and then I use an Erskines Twisted leader, with a strong Halco crosslock snap clip for the lure as advised.

No matter how strong barra are, Marlin they are not, and they will tire relativley quickly compared to many blue water species, like tuna and trevors which would pull a barra backwards all day. You just dont have to brick them with massive overkill in open water. I appreciate in timber its more tricky.
Great if you want to play with complicated leaders, but for learners reading I suggest most of this is far from necessary. Dont think you need to learn all this complicated approach to consistently catch barra.
Good knots, strong hooks and split rings, and ease up on the drag especially in open water will bring most barra beside the boat OK.
Thats not a criticism to all written above, just simply wanting to state there are a lot of very successful simple approaches as well.
Great thread Nagg.
Barraboy

Barraboy ... you are probably quite correct in what you are saying..... Its the KISS approach!
The one area that I feel a little different about is the use of a bimini twist double! ..... My reasoning is that unlike many ... I dont like to use 50lb braid ( I'm a 20 & 30lb man) .... & my theory is that a double lay of braid in the knot spreads the footprint of the mainline over the mono .... reducing the ability of the thin braid from slicing through the mono. ( a thicker mainline ie 50lb .. would reduce the possibility)
Now with my going to a wind on .... The bimini twist is essential too
Nagg
Looking forward to eliminating that rattle of a big knot going through the guides

[Barraboy7]

Yes Nagg
I use 30lb as well as 50, and interestingly when you dont use a double you significantly reduce the size of the knot and hence reduce issues with the rattle thru the guides. Some knots do of course require a double which creates a loop.
However the Slim Beauty doesnt so you can minimise the knot size and it is an incredibly strong knot. (Slim Beauty can be tied with a doubled line or single strand)
I note Bushy uses none other than the Slom Beauty as well.
Barraboy

[TinarooTriumph]

BarraBoy - The single strand Braid approach with the Slim Beauty... do you do 5 turns foward and 4 turns back to the figure of 8 - how do you do it? I have read about 6 different ways of tying this bloody knot and I have my own way of doing it... 6 turns foward and then thread it straight back through the first descending wrap with a single strand of 30lb Bionic (love Bionic)... no turns back to the figure of 8, unlike everything else I have read. I have never really been able to tie it properly with the double and for a solid rainy, foul day I tried for about 4 hrs to tie it correctly! Thats when I thought bugger it I will stick with my Bimini to TD Leader Connection knot. The Slim Beauty is about the only knot that has really stuffed me up... can tie everything else with ease but it! Always stuck with the Tony Jones/Yucatan knot for quite some time, but the TD is so dam slim and looks pretty trick when you go to pull it together!

Cheers

Theo

[MORFIN]

Leathal Leaders , Best tied twisted leader I have ever used .
Top work Gleyndon.

PETE MATE