Monduran Barra - Etiquette

[udlman]

Will Awoonga and Monduran end up like Tinaroo if some of the larger fish weren't removed. I have heard from rellies up there that Tinaroo isn't being stocked much anymore because the large barra are eating the smaller ones.

Last year up at Awoonga the Ranger was telling us to remove the large fish from the dam, He was getting quite peeved at us when were telling him we were releasing them.

Brad.

[the_matrix]

Last year up at Awoonga the Ranger was telling us to remove the large fish from the dam, He was getting quite peeved at us when were telling him we were releasing them.
Brad.

I'd like to know which ranger, I know the rangers at Awoonga and they are fisherman like us................who respect catch and release.

Tinaroo has had a stigma about big fish eating little fish.
Its not proven.
The problem with Tinaroo is they stopped stocking it regularly, hence the gap in year classes.
The Barra bash has not helped the cause.
Removal of big fish has hurt the fishery, not helped it.
The stocking effort has not slowed at Tinaroo, infact its ramped up, and larger fingerlings are being released to help with survivability issues.
Prior to the nets, the dam wall overflow lost numbers of barra which did not help the cause.

Its hard to compare Tinaroo with Awoonga and Monduran.
The biomass at Awoonga has always been an eye opener, so predation is going to be less of a problem.
Monduran bait stock is also impressive, and it seems to me Monduran have the healthiest (fattest) fish going around at present but it does work in cycles.

Each impoundment is different.
Cheers
Jas

[Mak579]

The stocking effort has not slowed at Tinaroo, infact its ramped up, and larger fingerlings are being released to help with survivability issues.

I spoke with a few locals involved in stocking up there a couple of years ago (2005), as Jas said they have had survivability issues with the fingerlings. The main issue with the stocking of 50mm fingerlings (or there abouts) survival was attributed to a few things. Bird life was a big factor (the amount of Bird Life at Tinaroo is amazing), as well as predatation from larger fishes including mouth almighty, barra etc. and of course the current human culture of the cull. ( in one day I destroyed 11 set lines intended for barra!)

The addition of the larger fingerlings is showing up to be the right move with these fish being consistently caught since being introduced. Each year they continue to grow and with the continuation of these larger fingerlings being introduced it's sure to be a great reward for everyone involved and can only get better!

Matt C

[TinarooTriumph]

Big fish eat little fish. That's just nature. It's going to happen regardless of species.

TinarooTriumph. - It's not all doom and gloom by mixing Jacks with Barra. I fish Salt fairly often & have pulled both Jacks & Barra off the same snag within minutes. They live pretty well together once they're of size. Why would it be different in the fresh ?

Any pics of these 65 to 80 cm Jacks ?

Yes, BIG fish eat little Fish. In an Impoundment fishery it is the case, but things can be controlled. How Stocking Groups etc go about that is their own duty. Shame they only see one point of view, and thats their own.

How many 60/80cm Jacks have you seen caught in Estuaries? I havn't seen many.
How many Barra have you seen caught in Offshore Reefs? I have seen none!

Put the two together in an Impoundment where they are Impounded and you've got yourself a dogfight. Currently it is a pretty even class fishery, but the real big Tinaroo Barra which everyone drops their jaws too have almost dissapeared. The Dam is being over-run with smaller fish... look at the ABT this year... the average size of fish caught was the lowest amount on the whole tour, and this is Tinaroo we are talking about. 37 Barra caught in the Barra Bash (yay to that though), and yet everyone I talked seemed to catch quite alot of smaller fish in the 40/50cm mark. Sounds like a good future for the place, but when you have 4000 or so Jack in the place, all with a bit of size on them and the Stocking Group wanting to throw in more Jack... looks like Tinaroo will be teeming with Red and not the famous Silver.

Sorry no pic's of the Jacks... I havnt caught one yet. Plenty on the wall at Atherton B&T and places down at Cairns (Northern Angler).

Theo

[Magella]

Eleven or so years ago we first started stocking Monduran with barra. Every time we stocked fingerlings,the so called experts and ANSA club members[who look after fish stocking around Bundaberg] would start up a big media hype in the local papers, tv and radio saying that it is not worth supporting MASA and stocking the Lake as all the catfish would eat the fingerlings and it was a waste of money. Well all I can say is that these experts were right about that, as Monduran is a total failure as a barra fishery, So from past experences I don't listen to much to them.

Cheers Ffoxie

[Dicko]

Yes, BIG fish eat little Fish. In an Impoundment fishery it is the case, but things can be controlled. How Stocking Groups etc go about that is their own duty. Shame they only see one point of view, and thats their own.

How many 60/80cm Jacks have you seen caught in Estuaries? I havn't seen many.

60 would be regarded as the top size for an estuary jack

How many Barra have you seen caught in Offshore Reefs? I have seen none!

Depends on how far off shore you talking

It's a moot point, I'm still not convinced mixing Jacks & Barra in an impoundment is a big enough problem to wipe out the large barra. In the wild they deal with Jacks, Crocs, Sharks etc.

My comment about big fish eating little fish wasn't a negative. It's not just impoundments, it happens every day in the wild as well. Most fish species in their natural breeding cycle throw off an incredible number of offspring. This is to make allowance for most ending up keeping the food chain happening. Leaving about 5%* to reach maturity. (*Source: December 2007 PROMASS).

Sure a few barra may get munched on. I'd say Baby jacks would be fair game for Barra too.

Nature seems to work out a good survival ratio. That's the art the stocking groups are aiming to replicate.


*(PROMASS = Pulled Right out My ....)

[Lenny41]

Looking through these pages I am envious to say the least. I've only gotten into the barra scene recently and after 2 trips to Mondy flicking lures from dawn till dusk for days I am yet to hook up let alone land one. That said I intend to maintain the rage and continue the hunt.

[Boomi Boy]

Nature seems to work out a good survival ratio. That's the art the stocking groups are aiming to replicate.


*(PROMASS = Pulled Right out My ....)

Dicko, respectfully, nature didn,t do much of a job with balance with rabbits, canetoads, european carp, etc.

Theo (Tinaroo Triumph) is one of the most impressive young men I have ever met. He lives and breathes Tinaroo and any comments he makes on that impoundment are well worth listening to.

[TonyM]

Dicko, respectfully, nature didn,t do much of a job with balance with rabbits, canetoads, european carp, etc.

Theo (Tinaroo Triumph) is one of the most impressive young men I have ever met. He lives and breathes Tinaroo and any comments he makes on that impoundment are well worth listening to.

Nature was doing allright with those species - it wasn't until good old homo sapien relocated them from there native environment that things got stuffed up big time

[Dicko]

Dicko, respectfully, nature didn,t do much of a job with balance with rabbits, canetoads, european carp, etc.

Theo (Tinaroo Triumph) is one of the most impressive young men I have ever met. He lives and breathes Tinaroo and any comments he makes on that impoundment are well worth listening to.

Im not having a go at Theo, just tossing around thoughts. As he is.

I would like to see some research, either way.

I don;t see the point you make about introduced species such as canetoads & carp.

My point about nature looking after itself is in relation to how many offspring most animals produce to ensure a survival rate. A female barra releases 3 to 6 million eggs. You can bet your butt each one of them doesnt grow up to full size or we;d have wall to wall barra in every river. not that that would be a bad thing

Comparing to a stocked impoundment, it is the stocking groups that are in effect balancing how many and or what size fingerlings to stock to get an adequate long term survival rate. Tinaroo has been up & down in this regard. It's also refelcted on as bit of a learning centre for the rest of the stocked dams.

I don't think the Jacks are to blame for the current lack of big barra up there.

The survival rate for barra in the wild is very slim, impoundments may be better. I cant see how side by side stocking with jacks would alter that any more than in the wild, where there is bucketloads more predators.

[Boomi Boy]

Nature was doing allright with those species - it wasn't until good old homo sapien relocated them from there native environment that things got stuffed up big time

Exactly my point, its good old homo sapiens putting Jacks (and barra) into places they would never be otherwise, the are as alien as any other introduced species.
There are some that reckon barra stockings have created problems/changes to fisheries they were happier with before the barra.
I release every barra I catch in the trophy dams, but this changes in a favourite river of mine where barra never were, but enter over the wall from a stocked impoundment. The barra have decimated the fishing for the indigenous species, and people who have fished their all their lives now talk about the good old days, before the barra.

[Boomi Boy]

I would like to see some research, either way.

I don;t see the point you make about introduced species such as canetoads & carp.

.

Introducing barra and jacks to places they NEVER were is similar to canetoads and carp, they wipe out the indigenous species by predation and competition.
On a recent 10,000km trip round qld I fished a lot of differant waters. My most enjoyable days were catching lots of fish, sooties, catties, etc (99% released) not catching big barra after 1000 casts. Ok, so I,m a mug fisho, and one of our barra gurus could explain why they only need 100 casts but the point remains.
Barra stockings change fisheries. I,m not going name places for my own reasons, but the best fishing I had was at an unstocked impoundment where every day I got heaps of the indigenous fish, I will be going back. I also went to Faust, Tinaroo and Awoonga, they are not on my wish list.
One place, a section of the Dawson River I went to, previously had large self replacing populations of both nthn yellas and saratoga. The local stocking group, great blokes, have, with the best of intentions, stocked barra. There were never ever barra there before. The yellas are now as rare as hens teeth and the sarra inconspicuous. They already had the best sportsfish in Australia, IMO, in good numbers, but introduced the barra anyway, why??? Bigger is not always better!

[TonyM]

I agree with you Boomi that there is nothing better than fishing for a native species in it's natural habitat. The trouble is that we seem to have a habit of destroying that very habitat by placing dams/wiers in the way of spawning fish.

You raise a very good point in relation to stocking species that are non-endemic to an area. That certainly could cause problems and in my experience stocking groups try to avoid causing these issues - I believe the DPI is also against stocking fish non-endemic to a system. Although the "midnight stocking group" doesn't seem to have such qualms....

I'm not familiar with the Dawson River (one day if I'm lucky) so can't comment on that - bummer to hear about any Toga population copping a caning though :-(

[Boomi Boy]

I'm not familiar with the Dawson River (one day if I'm lucky) (

Here is a link from Fitzys great site.

http://www.sweetwaterfishing.com.au/DawsonRiver.htm

As far as the DPI is concerned, its more about where the river ends. There were NEVER barra on the Atherton Tablelands(Tinaroo), let alone jacks!!!!!!, but the rivers do meet barra/jack waters eventually. Same deal with Moondarra, etc.
Not to sure about the DPI approved trout release in Tinaroo???

[TinarooTriumph]

Dicko,

Thanks for your input. Always happy to see what genuine people have to say.

In regards to your comment 'I dont think the Jacks are too blame for the current lack of big Barra up there'. They have not had any bearing on things to date -give it the next few years and time will tell. As far as I see things, the situation Tinaroo will be faced with e.g. alot of runt Barra V Big Jacks is a situation which i don't think many people have witnessed before. I don't think its a situation anyone wants to see the result too either. I just thank the lord that there arn't anymore Jack in their... 4000 is plenty. Reason why they threw them in was to see how well they do and if they would work in places down South. Yep... they worked alright... their survival rate is better then Barra and they have reached and will continue on an impressive growth rate. Now what? Where to now? Lets see what happens... but I have a feeling things will more then likely get grim.

You want the reason behind the lack of big Barra in Tinaroo? Tour guides, Barra Bash's, Stocking Group and the general public in the area that love to kill any animal that breathes.

Theo