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Thread: Who Is Telling The Most Lies - And Who Is Going To Get Caught Out First

  1. #121

    Re: Who Is Telling The Most Lies - And Who Is Going To Get Caught Out First

    I know a woman who saved herself from an unknown intruder who had a knife by discharging a highshot then offering the next to the bloke who thought until then she was bluffing. This was in Centra QLD.

    Things like this did happen, we are not safer because of the lack of guns, some feel safer is all and they have the majority say, even if they are in the minority, it's the way it is.
    No people that have been disarmed by force in authority has ever survived it without much suffering. Some chineses history makes sober reading.

    History says everyone will pay for it, might be 50 years 100years, 200years but sooner or later without doubt, but until then, let's party

    cheers fnq



  2. #122

    Re: Who Is Telling The Most Lies - And Who Is Going To Get Caught Out First

    Last edited by mik01; 15-11-2007 at 06:15 PM. Reason: sorry - I swore!

  3. #123

    Re: Who Is Telling The Most Lies - And Who Is Going To Get Caught Out First

    our gun laws are modelled after Britain's. Their cops don't even carry them, yet I haven't seen the British people suffer at all for the lack of guns in their society.

    indeed, when you look at the real figures, you still cannot argue that the British colonies are far better off due to this policy of gun restriction - http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm

    I don't mind guns, yet semi and fully automatic weapons have no place in the hands of ordinary citizens. the thing to remember is that I can potentially outrun a single shot weapon even when hit, but a semi can pump me with lead before I can get away. makes sense right?

    no matter what side of the argument you are on, you can't disagree that some regulation is needed. otherwise we would all be allowed to drive tanks and have our own rockets - ok sounds silly, but where do you stop?

  4. #124

    Re: Who Is Telling The Most Lies - And Who Is Going To Get Caught Out First

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  5. #125

    Re: Who Is Telling The Most Lies - And Who Is Going To Get Caught Out First

    Watched an interesting show on Pay TV last week, called The Truth About Killing. The guy doing the documentry explained that in WW2 only 15% of US forces were willing to fire their guns at the enemy, even in self defence. (Not sure how they got those figures, you would assume that the 85% not firing would not have been around to ask).

    Went on to explain that even trained soldiers find it hard to point a gun at another human being and pull the trigger.

    Based on that, I doubt that many people, particularly women and the elderly would be capable of shooting a potential rapist, mugger etc. It's more likely that their attacker would disarm them and use their own weapon against them.

    I personally think the current gun laws are fine, even if they did result in me needing to part with some beautiful firearms.

  6. #126

    Re: Who Is Telling The Most Lies - And Who Is Going To Get Caught Out First

    Don't know that I really like the idea of a firearm for self defence but where they have carry laws the statistics prove crime drops but in any case as there is now less chance of being educated in handling correctly as kids I think it would be neccessarry to have training and permits unlike the LDP which was the policy in pinheads quote.
    Guess we all have unfounded fears of something like my wife who's scared of heights even behind a fence she won't walk near the edge of a cliff, crikey she's even scared of sailing with me, even after I called the boat 'Trust Me"
    Doesn't matter now we have the laws we have and thats it, it's not likely to change back but what we had wasn't the problem.
    Did anyone see them crazies on 60 minutes the other night, just imagine that mentality with guns on you tube.

  7. #127

    Re: Who Is Telling The Most Lies - And Who Is Going To Get Caught Out First

    Quote Originally Posted by tigermullet View Post
    Hey Reidy, fair suck of the old sav - we can only know what we learn from various reports. Yours included - and it may well be accurate. Much that I have read has remarked upon the supposed accuracy. I thought it was a valid assessment but not being a witness there is no way that I could be sure. Even being there does not lead to certainty - look at how often eye witness accounts have been proved to be inaccurate. Therefore my mind is still open to all possibilities.

    I have not owned any type of firearm since the early 70's and was not that keen a shooter before that.

    Why should Tasmanians take greater exception to any debate over this dreadful day? I thought that we were all Australians and nothing that I have said was meant or could be taken as an insult to Tasmanians.

    I still wish that the facts of the matter had been tested by the courts.

    As for my 'mentality'? I'll have to check with my wife - she just might agree with you.
    Good day Tiger mullet,
    If i have offended any body i am sorry.I also did not mean to imply that Tasmanians would be offended by this topic, if it read that way again i am sorry.
    Its just a touchy subject for myself,As i stated in my first post the couple next door witnessed the incident and are not the same people anymore.(Maybe the gun lobyists need to have a chat with them). I was in the US 2 weeks before telling people that Tasmania was a lovely place where people were happy and that violence was something we saw on the nightly news.Two weeks later i was wrong, so very very wrong.
    Again if anybody took any offence to my post i am sorry
    All the best
    Reidy
    Ps thanks for the check.May be i was becoming a tad emotional

  8. #128

    Re: Who Is Telling The Most Lies - And Who Is Going To Get Caught Out First

    Crafty Carp & Disorderly - I agree. It's lousy phrasing that paints the wrong picture.

    The original intent was the philosophy of self defence, and the rights we each have to exercise it, and not be persecuted by law or police.

    That and anything relating to self defence platform is not promoting that everybody carry a gun - that's ludicrous. Hell - just look at some of the arrogant, impatient and aggressive mongrels who drive cars - nobody would want them to have guns.

    Move to more practical examples - if YOU were being bashed, or raped, or your family or hard earned goods were under imminent threat by some human predator - what would you prefer to have in hand?
    a) A bible?
    b) The firearms regulations, specifying barrel lengths etc?
    c) The phone, then wait for 30 minutes or more for police to react and arrive - by which time you are likely dead, your wife raped and or dead?
    d) A gun, but with demonstrated proficiency - or else a gun is worse than nothing.

    I've been there and done that, and it's not nice. I wouldn't wish it on anybody - but having the means to counter illegal force, is the only way to stop the aggression.

    It's the entire principle behind national defence - personal defence differs only in scale, the principles are identical.

    Peter Cunningham

  9. #129

    Re: Who Is Telling The Most Lies - And Who Is Going To Get Caught Out First

    Quote Originally Posted by LINGUS View Post
    Crafty Carp & Disorderly - I agree. It's lousy phrasing that paints the wrong picture.

    The original intent was the philosophy of self defence, and the rights we each have to exercise it, and not be persecuted by law or police.

    That and anything relating to self defence platform is not promoting that everybody carry a gun - that's ludicrous. Hell - just look at some of the arrogant, impatient and aggressive mongrels who drive cars - nobody would want them to have guns.

    Move to more practical examples - if YOU were being bashed, or raped, or your family or hard earned goods were under imminent threat by some human predator - what would you prefer to have in hand?
    a) A bible?
    b) The firearms regulations, specifying barrel lengths etc?
    c) The phone, then wait for 30 minutes or more for police to react and arrive - by which time you are likely dead, your wife raped and or dead?
    d) A gun, but with demonstrated proficiency - or else a gun is worse than nothing.

    I've been there and done that, and it's not nice. I wouldn't wish it on anybody - but having the means to counter illegal force, is the only way to stop the aggression.

    It's the entire principle behind national defence - personal defence differs only in scale, the principles are identical.

    Peter Cunningham
    I think you are aggressive therefore I would have the right to blast away

  10. #130

    Re: Who Is Telling The Most Lies - And Who Is Going To Get Caught Out First

    Peter

    Since you appeared on Ausfish, I like a lot of others here have been looking at your website and your policies. You seem to have policies for many issues but I cannot find any in relation to Indigenous Australians.

    Does the LPD have any such policies and if not, why not?

  11. #131

    Re: Who Is Telling The Most Lies - And Who Is Going To Get Caught Out First

    Quote Originally Posted by reidy View Post
    Good day Tiger mullet,
    If i have offended any body i am sorry.I also did not mean to imply that Tasmanians would be offended by this topic, if it read that way again i am sorry.
    Its just a touchy subject for myself,As i stated in my first post the couple next door witnessed the incident and are not the same people anymore.(Maybe the gun lobyists need to have a chat with them). I was in the US 2 weeks before telling people that Tasmania was a lovely place where people were happy and that violence was something we saw on the nightly news.Two weeks later i was wrong, so very very wrong.
    Again if anybody took any offence to my post i am sorry
    All the best
    Reidy
    Ps thanks for the check.May be i was becoming a tad emotional

    That was a very gracious apology, Reidy. Thanks - it probably wasn't really necessary but I now have a better appreciation of your point of view and can understand a little of what you must feel about that day.

    Let's hope that nothing like it is ever repeated in Australia.

    In future I will probably not rush into assessments based on newspaper stories.

    Regards,

    TM.

  12. #132
    Ausfish Addict disorderly's Avatar
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    Re: Who Is Telling The Most Lies - And Who Is Going To Get Caught Out First

    Quote Originally Posted by PinHead View Post
    I think you are aggressive therefore I would have the right to blast away
    Its been an interesting thread and pinhead you have played the role of devils advocate to lingus's arguement well.
    The above statement however raises the most salient point of all.

    ie.
    When is it OK to raise arms against another person.
    How does one determine when shooting another person is justifiable.

    Indeed using a firearm for self defence possibly raises so many moral , personal and legal issues that in hindsight it may be very destructive for many people once the event is reconstructed and the issue of accountability is raised.

    Me I will continue to see the right to bear arms as a quandary but personally,legally or otherwise will certainly retain the option for my own family situation.
    I just hope never to be put in a situation where I need to make a snap decision to use this method of self defence but I sincerely hope the option is never taken away from me.

    Scott
    Last edited by disorderly; 16-11-2007 at 08:02 PM.

  13. #133

    Re: Who Is Telling The Most Lies - And Who Is Going To Get Caught Out First

    Scott..I was not playing devil's advocate with my comments about the LDP..they are delusional and nutters..read all their policies.

    As for guns..I do not own one nor need one for any purpose at all but I have no problem with those that have them for sporting use. I do have a problem with people buying guns thinking they need them for self defence purposes...that is another minefield in itself. As for the LDP stating that the age and infirmed need them for self defence..that would have to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read. Can see the headlines now...92 year old woman suffering from Alzheimers could have defended herself if she has remembered where she left her Uzi. I was also not joking about blasting away someone if I found them aggressive...what defines aggression...not merely a physical act but can also be a mental one...therefore my defence could be that he was being aggressive and threatening by his words aimed at me...things like that have been accepted in courts before...look at some of the cases where a woman has murdered her husband..have gained acquital due to mental anguish caused by the victim...way too many scenarios to allow open slather on guns for my peace of mind. ESPECIALLY with the LDP policy on drugs..add the two and you can guarantee mayhem. I reckon Derek could regale us with many a tale of what drugs has done to people and where they have ended up from them..

  14. #134
    Ausfish Addict disorderly's Avatar
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    Re: Who Is Telling The Most Lies - And Who Is Going To Get Caught Out First

    Well Pinhead ,

    I finally had a look at the LDP site and really didnt have to go much further than to see that Lisa Milat is a candidate for them.
    Nutters,yeah your right there,mate.
    I also agree with you about the problems of defining a situation whereby it may be justified to use a firearm or indeed any form of physical violence against others.
    It doesn't require a firearm to kill though.
    We saw the devestating affects on the Hookes family a year or 2 ago.
    Perhaps something as simple as a personality or ego clash combined with alcohol (perhaps your perceived aggression?)lead to the tragic death of David Hookes.
    I ,however grew up with guns around the house and they were used on a daily basis for pest eradication,sport and I guess it was always understood they were there in the unlikely event that they may one day be necessary for personal protection.
    Once you have had this (dare I say it .....)liberty its not a comforting thought that our government may choose to take that right away.

    Scott

  15. #135

    Re: Who Is Telling The Most Lies - And Who Is Going To Get Caught Out First

    I also grew up with guns around the house, used for hunting, pest eradication etc. But self defence?

    I think that a lot of people believe they would be willing to fire a gun at someone in self defence, but I doubt that many actually could - nutters aside. Besides, even if you did, you would have to live with the memory of killing someone for the rest of your life. From what I have seen, read and people I have spoken to, it's a lot harder than many may think.

    Guns make it easier for cowardly nutters to kill. Look at the school shootings in the US. Would these kids have killed anyone if they didn't have access to firearms? I am not against people owning guns, but only if there is a justifiable reason. Self defence I'm afraid is not one of them.

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