What a waste

[Fitzy]

When I first heard that Barra existed in an Impoundment so far South I was actually shaking my head... ''That can't be right... they'll freeze to death!'' was my reaction.
Theo.

G'Day Theo. I see the same in many NT folks as in NQ. Many folks just dont know or havent openned a book to find out that barra do range as far south as Moreton Bay. Ern Grant described catching barra in Pummicestone Passage. The guy brave enough to call Ern a liar I'm yet to meet.

Occasional captures of wild barra by anglers & in trawl nets still happens here. Would probably get more if anglers actually targetted them. There are a few "in the know" fishos who are doing well on them in the Albert, Logan & Commera Rivers on the Gold Coast. I wont say any more on location

In a recent discussion with DPI&F staff they admitted that barra do range into Moreton Bay. however they are believed to be "vagrant" fish. It is yet to be established if there is any reproducing populations in Moreton Bay or the rivers that feed it Brisbane, Bremer, Caboolture, Albert, Logan, Coomera, Nerang, however historical & anecdotal evidence suggests the southern strain barra once did. Same as Jungle Perch were once common in SEQ, they are now rocking horse nuggets. In short we've killed them off with nets, clearing, weirs & polution.

Cheers,

Fitzy..

[aussiebasser]

Are the Barra not naturally occurring in the the Mary and Burrum rivers? I've heard of them as far south as the Logan River. If Lenthalls is on the Mary, I cannot see any reason to stop stocking them, as it is their natural location. A drought and very low temperatures are the cause of the kill, I can't see how a call to stop stocking a specie in its natural area could have any credence what so ever. An irrational knee jerk reaction is what the world seems to thrive on these days, let's not give the opponents of our pastime further ammunition.

To the Fraser Coast Stocking guys, keep up the excellent work, it is a thankless task, where the knockers always outnumber the helpers, yet they all seem to enjoy the fruits of your labours. How easy it must be at Lake Awoonga, with all the hard work done for you, no attending meetings, no trying to raise funds, no trying to attract new members, no giving your own time and $ to provide a decent fishery, no getting up at sparrow's to meet the delivery of fingerlings, you can just sit back have it all done for you, and criticise others.

[Randall]

Are the Barra not naturally occurring in the the Mary and Burrum rivers? I've heard of them as far south as the Logan River. If Lenthalls is on the Mary, I cannot see any reason to stop stocking them, as it is their natural location. A drought and very low temperatures are the cause of the kill, I can't see how a call to stop stocking a specie in its natural area could have any credence what so ever. An irrational knee jerk reaction is what the world seems to thrive on these days, let's not give the opponents of our pastime further ammunition.

To the Fraser Coast Stocking guys, keep up the excellent work, it is a thankless task, where the knockers always outnumber the helpers, yet they all seem to enjoy the fruits of your labours. How easy it must be at Lake Awoonga, with all the hard work done for you, no attending meetings, no trying to raise funds, no trying to attract new members, no giving your own time and $ to provide a decent fishery, no getting up at sparrow's to meet the delivery of fingerlings, you can just sit back have it all done for you, and criticise others.

Well said dale. Could`nt agree more mate.

Randall.

[Tropicaltrout]

Good thread very interesting I see valid points and fitzy is right aswell as pete. stocking groups work hard to build up these dams and as they become established many things occur especially with these prize fish we all love to catch.
The first thing that happens is that the stocking group get a population of fish then we catch one here and there, then some one get a big one that filters out to the public the more people come which in turn creates publicity for the area which starts a small but would say fruitful income to the locals of the area. which is importent for the local community. The stocking groups they put more fish in and thier dam builds a reputation and it goes smooth for years. all of a-sudden a bad winter and the water temp drops to the lowest point in years its a tragerdy but it will happen. The stocking groups who put the effort in are saddened but will bounce back and we as fishos need to support these guys so we will return and get our dream monster barra, but putting thier name on our licence as dam of choise or simply keep fishing thier regardless.

Thats my go cheers TT.

[shayned]

Good point TT, recently I've been involved in trying to raise funds for a fish stocking group and had to do a fair bit of research when trying to develop arguments to assist the process. One of the interesting tid bits that got dredged up is that for every dollar spent on fish stocking approx. $50.00 of extra spending related to fishing trips is generated for the economy of the areas surrounding the impoundment. A great outcome for some of these areas and all generated off of the efforts of committed volunteers.
IMHO when I first read the thread my initial reaction was, if you aren't getting involved and helping these stocking groups out, then pull your head in and let them get on with it and just be happy there are good fish available for you to chase where there wasn't any before. My two cents.

[Awoonga]

Dale where do l criticise others ???

[roydsy]

Are the Barra not naturally occurring in the the Mary and Burrum rivers? I've heard of them as far south as the Logan River. If Lenthalls is on the Mary, I cannot see any reason to stop stocking them, as it is their natural location. A drought and very low temperatures are the cause of the kill, I can't see how a call to stop stocking a specie in its natural area could have any credence what so ever. An irrational knee jerk reaction is what the world seems to thrive on these days, let's not give the opponents of our pastime further ammunition.

Firstly did you even read what was said by Awoonga.

Dam levels are too low at lenthals for the barra to escape the sudden temp changes. You liken the habitat of salt barra in the mary and susan to the lenthals impoundment barra. Can you honestly tell me that the barra stay and are found in the shallow estuaries during winter months and won't head for deep holes to ride out the cold snaps. If there are no deep holes at lenthals then where will they go, belly up I suspect.

To the Fraser Coast Stocking guys, keep up the excellent work, it is a thankless task, where the knockers always outnumber the helpers, yet they all seem to enjoy the fruits of your labours. How easy it must be at Lake Awoonga, with all the hard work done for you, no attending meetings, no trying to raise funds, no trying to attract new members, no giving your own time and $ to provide a decent fishery, no getting up at sparrow's to meet the delivery of fingerlings, you can just sit back have it all done for you, and criticise others.

People are not knocking their efforts, they are saying concentrate on what works best in that dam, bass. Putting money into a species that will die during cold snaps is not a good way to encourage more support for a fish stocking association. I would love the barra to be more prolific at lenthals but with shallow water prone to cold snaps it shaw does seem a waste.

[aussiebasser]

Dale where do l criticise others ???

I don't think I actually said you did, although your original post must have been trying to bait somebody, hence:

Three options here...Stop the stocking of barra or wait untill the dam fills before it stocked again or stock it with bass Whatever happens there its going to be a long road to recovery with the amount of fish lost..............................Let the debate begin......Trevor

An extremely simplistic solution has been reached by yourself. Only 3 options??? Surely we must step back and analyse the whole situation, and allow the Stocking Group to work with D P I & F as they are the bodies chartered with providing this service to anglers.

[aussiebasser]

Firstly did you even read what was said by Awoonga.

Dam levels are too low at lenthals for the barra to escape the sudden temp changes. You liken the habitat of salt barra in the mary and susan to the lenthals impoundment barra. Can you honestly tell me that the barra stay and are found in the shallow estuaries during winter months and won't head for deep holes to ride out the cold snaps. If there are no deep holes at lenthals then where will they go, belly up I suspect.



People are not knocking their efforts, they are saying concentrate on what works best in that dam, bass. Putting money into a species that will die during cold snaps is not a good way to encourage more support for a fish stocking association. I would love the barra to be more prolific at lenthals but with shallow water prone to cold snaps it shaw does seem a waste.

Roydsy, not sure that I've met you, but the following is listed regarding Australian Bass:

Distribution

Coastal rivers and streams along the Eastern seaboard from Tin Can Bay in Queensland, south through New South Wales and into eastern Victoria. Not recorded west of Wilson's Promontory.
Most prolific in the waters of remote streams in the far south coast of New South Wales and eastern Gippsland in Victoria.
Recent research has confirmed that Australian bass share a common gene pool, and consequently fisheries departments are now allowing more widespread use of commercially bred fish for stocking of farm dams etc, especially in Victoria.

and from the D P I site:

Being a freshwater and estuarine fish, the Australian bass ranges from the Mary River, Hervey Bay and Tin Can Bay regions of southern Queensland, through coastal rivers of New South Wales and into Victoria (Gippsland). Australian bass move out of freshwater into saline estuaries during midwinter to spawn. Many riverine populations are reduced in numbers, probably due to habitat loss and construction of dams and weirs that prevent upstream migration of post-spawning fish and (later) the fry. Many freshwater dams and weirs have been stocked with Australian bass and form the basis of a growing recreational fishery in these areas.

and this from the D P I site regarding Barramundi

Barramundi are warm water fish, being found in tropical coastal and freshwaters in northern Australia. Ranging from the Ashburton River in Western Australia to the Noosa River in Queensland, they move between freshwater and saltwater, during various stages of their lifecycle. Barramundi are found in estuaries and coastal waters during their breeding season. Larger fish are found in tidal waters where they feed on large banana prawns and surface fish such as garfish. They can be found at depths of around 40m

So, it's OK to stock Bass at their most Northern known natural habitat, but not to stock Barramundi north of their most Southern known natural habitat.

As I said, there is a drought, and an extremely cold winter happening which can cause problems.

[TinarooTriumph]

When I first heard that Barra existed in an >>> Impoundment <<< so far South I was actually shaking my head... ''That can't be right... they'll freeze to death!'' was my reaction. As I said, this winter has been a 'freak' of a thing... but with the way the weather is chopping and changing year by year (GW), who knows? - Maybe next year could be worse?

Theo.

Even though I have not seen as many years as some of you on this Forum, I have noticed a definite change in the weather patterns up here, and with the Low Water levels and current drought down South It sums things up. Extended Wet Seasons, aswell as Extended Winters here in FNQ over the last few years has thrown a spanner in the works for everyone (Farmers, Fishermen etc). Theres also Wind's and Direction... I won't go into that... abit out of my depth when it comes to that. Theres also Cyclone Larry...

Whilst down South, you guys havn't had a Wet Season in how long? No doubt you are enduring rediculously cold nights at present like us... possibly even worse? This Winter is a certain indicator of Cold Snaps to come in the future. Things/options might need to be looked at... not just for Lenthalls either!

Mother Nature has the last say in everything... there is no denying that! It is an unfortunate fact.

Theo.

[Tropicaltrout]

I bet they get more live stock down south when the drought is broken and the flood waters abate, re grow bananas after the cyclone come through why not put the fish back??

[banshee]

The amount of fishing pressure a stocked impoundment removes from the sometimes fragile wild population in the same area makes them (the impoundment) a very worthwhile execise inspite of the odd hickup.

[Fitzy]

Some great replies for both sides of the debate. By the healthy replies it shows the passion & enthusiasm among fishing fraternity. More replies to come Im sure.

I guess that when we interfere with nature by stocking fish into lakes we are bound to have some hick-ups.

Now if we didnt have to interfere with nature by putting a few gazillion tonnes of rock, earth & concrete across rivers we would need to stock fish in the first place .....

There's probably a proverb or some sort of irony to be drawn from that.

On the success of bass in SEQ lakes. Yep, they do pretty good in most locations. However of all the common fish stocked in SEQ bass are the most expensive & have the slowest growth rates & are most likely to over the wall in a flood event. They are however the most easily caught, but that makes them more susceptible to exploitation and slowest to recover from any disaster (cardboard box bass comps included).
A 50 cm bass is in the order of 10 years old. A barra can get that in around a year in optimal conditions.

When the wise folks on the SIP committee decided to change the already successful allocation formula, they effectively have pitted stocking group against stocking group to gain the most ticks on the form in order to get more money.
I warned them at the time but they didnt listen. The effective outcome is that some groups are looking for way to draw crowds from "outside" the local area or gain the preferance tick. If having a location with barra in it gains them more $$ to advance their stocking funds, good on them. Dont blame them, blame the bloody fiddlers who changed the SIP & yet still claim to represent anglers & stocking groups across Qld . GRRRRRR I'm still annoyed about that one!!!

Bass are in every bloody lake, dam, weir, puddle, creek & river from Cania & Monduran south. I cant for the life of me see why Joe Average would want to drive 4 hours from Brisbane to go catch a bass at Lenthalls when he's going to drive away from the trophy bass lakes of Somerset & Wivenhoe among many others.
Big fish get folks excited. While bass are a fantastic fish, they just dont get folks driving thousands of kms to catch them like folks do for barra. I've only ever seen someone from Darwin drive to SEQ to catch a bass twice. A rare in any case. However if you take note of the Victorian & NSW licence plates on the cars & trailers at Awoonga, Monduran, Faust etc you will see a healthy representation among the Smart State plates.

It all adds up to a greater picture.

The return for every barra stocked is around $50, bass & yellowbelly return around a third of that. If I was the local tourism boss bloke,, I know what species I would be wanting my investment $$ going into.

Cheers,

Fitz..

After thought. From personal observations from travels far & wide, I've noticed very few northerns tend to support fish stocking of barra much further south than their own Latitude. I heard the NT minister for fisheries at last years Barra Nationals on the Daly River absolutely lambast Qld's barra stocking program, called it "fishing in a barrel". We must be hurting him in the hip pocket for public performances like that!!! Geez, ot one stage there were those in FNQ who supported the barra ban on Faust some years ago. Anyone else remember that idiotic situation??
Same deal goes for southerners who argue the call on bass being stocked north of their range (Noosa River). I guess its human nature to stop the "other" guy pissing in your puddle.
But while the translocation book is still being selectively thrown out the window, Im happy to support any work that provides sustainable fishing practices.
This Mason/Dixon mentality is of a load of crap IMHO.

GF

[Fitzy]

>>> Impoundment <<<

Theo.

Touche Theo.


Fitz..

[Lovey80]

Wow guys very interesting reading. As I have never fished impoundments for either Bass or Barra I can't comment yet. Can those of you that are enlightened to know tell me the in's and outs of fishing in impoundments. ie I heard talk of motor size caps if so what dams and sizes???? Are the rules for size of fish taken different to that of natural Barra/Bass???? For example if a Barra was caught and it was truely a trophy fish due to it's size would it be legal to take as it has no breeding capabilities?? Not that I intent to take massive Barra if caught but any info for an impoundment newbie would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers Chris

P.S. Would there be any dilemas with the stocking people taking the larger breeders and putting them in salt water once caught from an impoundment???