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Thread: Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party (AFLP) - Application For Registration

  1. #46

    Re: Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party (AFLP) - Application For Registration

    Thanks Derek

    It's a wonder you haven't been included in the T Team.
    Shane or Mitch I'm the one with the walking stick when you tag.

    Further to Derek's comments and posts one might take note on the TFPQ web home page.

    Derek missed this one as being the press that went out to the printed media as mentioned in my post >

    Wednesday, July 25, 2007

    NEWS ITEM


    TFP IS CALLING FOR SUITABLE CANDIDATES FOR FEDERAL ELECTION.



    Now that the political party re-registration process is in the final stages and is listed in the Australian Government Gazette (s136) The Fishing Party is on the hunt for candidates to contest the Federal Election.

    The party is seeking two suitable Senate candidates for each state and territory, also wanting candidates in as many House of Representative electorate seats as possible to give ‘Fishing and recreational interests’ a political voice.

    Robert Smith the party chairman admitted it is a big step to take but 25% of the population is reported to dangle a line either for sport or recreation. “Just the rec fishing side of things generates $3 billion to the nations economy giving the states $300 million to share in GST revenue”, “We want to make sure that that revenue is used appropriately and get a fair return to those taxpayers without the need for extra commitments such as fishing licenses or levies” Mr. Smith said.

    Water quality and quantity, fair public water access, better facilities, sensible sustainable resource management are the priority of any party success at Federal level.
    “At least an elected TFP candidate in either house is able to have the party interest debated along with votes being influential in determining outcomes” Mr. Smith said. The Fishing Party vote has already shown results of what can happen in seats such as Port Stephens in NSW where our vote changed the seat.

    For further details;
    Contact Bob Smith at above party addresses.


    Bob Smith
    Last edited by RASA; 06-08-2007 at 08:46 PM.

  2. #47

    Re: Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party (AFLP) - Application For Registration

    Quote Originally Posted by RASA View Post
    Thanks Derek

    It's a wonder you haven't been included in the T Team.
    Shane or Mitch I'm the one with the walking stick when you tag.

    Further to Derek's comments and posts one might take note on the TFPQ web home page.

    Derek missed this one as being the press that went out to the printed media as mentioned in my post >

    Wednesday, July 25, 2007

    NEWS ITEM


    TFP IS CALLING FOR SUITABLE CANDIDATES FOR FEDERAL ELECTION.




    Now that the political party re-registration process is in the final stages and is listed in the Australian Government Gazette (s136) The Fishing Party is on the hunt for candidates to contest the Federal Election.

    The party is seeking two suitable Senate candidates for each state and territory, also wanting candidates in as many House of Representative electorate seats as possible to give ‘Fishing and recreational interests’ a political voice.

    Robert Smith the party chairman admitted it is a big step to take but 25% of the population is reported to dangle a line either for sport or recreation. “Just the rec fishing side of things generates $3 billion to the nations economy giving the states $300 million to share in GST revenue”, “We want to make sure that that revenue is used appropriately and get a fair return to those taxpayers without the need for extra commitments such as fishing licenses or levies” Mr. Smith said.

    Water quality and quantity, fair public water access, better facilities, sensible sustainable resource management are the priority of any party success at Federal level.
    “At least an elected TFP candidate in either house is able to have the party interest debated along with votes being influential in determining outcomes” Mr. Smith said. The Fishing Party vote has already shown results of what can happen in seats such as Port Stephens in NSW where our vote changed the seat.

    For further details;
    Contact Bob Smith at above party addresses.


    Bob Smith
    Didn't find this on TFPQ home page but it is on TFP home page.


    Derek

  3. #48

    Re: Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party (AFLP) - Application For Registration

    well..what hope of anything productive coming out of anything from this debacle...certainly appears that too many egos have gotten in the way...and all gone pear shaped...any chance of winning anything in any election is now a pipe dream..might as well just go fishing...complete waste of time with this so called "political" party.

  4. #49

    Re: Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party (AFLP) - Application For Registration

    Sorry Derek

    I was referring to the description of TFPQ on their web page.



    Bob Smith

  5. #50

    Re: Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party (AFLP) - Application For Registration

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Bullock View Post
    Well my research shows Bob is right on at least one point. People did join The Fishing Party (TFP) under the Federal Registration of Party Members. Even though The Fishing Party (Qld) (TFPQ) website states:



    the link takes you to a form that is for Federal Registration of Party Members under the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC). It is not for registration under the Electoral Commission of Queensland (ECQ).

    Seems it is worded very poorly to me. People could have been mislead into believing they were joining TFPQ whereas they were in fact joining TFP.

    That being the case, unless the AFLP can come up with 500 members they haven't much hope of getting registered.

    Also looking at recent refusal decisions and the reasons for them by the AEC one would conclude that the word Fishing which is already registered to TFPNSW is likely to stop the registration as will AFLP being very similar to ALP.


    Derek
    i must admit that i thought i was joining the TFPQ , not the TFP when i filled out the form. Who really noticed that the Q was missing on the couple of times that TFP was mentioned, especially when cheques were made out to TPPQ. I am glad, because of all the crap on here that i never sent it in
    I suppose if people really are disillusioned they should send in their resignations right now, vote with your feet..

    mmmmm maybe The anglers party Qld TAPQ can't be confused with any of the others..

    bottom line.. who really cares now anyway...
    it doesn't matter who you vote for, a politician always wins!

  6. #51

    Re: Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party (AFLP) - Application For Registration

    I could be wrong about the ECQ but thats immaterial. All members belong to the Federal Party as I see it.

    Politics sux hey.


    Derek

  7. #52

    Re: Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party (AFLP) - Application For Registration

    Dr's position is just about how I feel too.

    It is a tragedy this has had to become a public slanging match...but...the alternative was to let TFPQ die a slow quiet death and too much work has gone into it by too many to let that happen. Better a S%$#t fight than no fight at all and DR won't be the only one not joining if this goes the way it well may and the Qld members cease to have a say in how and who within the state.

    So...on to sermantics.

    Are "we" myself included..TFP members (of the wholely NSW based and controlled orgainsation) or TFPQ members, joining TFPQ and paying money into TFPQ using an AEC form which clearly directs money to the Qld organisation?? Buggered if I know what the law will say but I can, hand on heart, say I think the members are Qld members and as such owners of the Qld party which can then choose to change its name to anything it wants.

    While Bob's rant is wordy what it never answers is the big issue,

    Why should a mob based in NSW tell "us" who our senate candidate"s" will be?

    The voters, who voted for "us" last time should have the opportunity of doing so again without confusion....not likely.

    As Bob is happy to quote from some emails, here are a few I sent but he never bothered to answer...maybe now he has joined the debate he might like to do so here.




    Good morning Robert and hope the Christmas/New Year treated you well.

    It has been raised on a number of occassions the need to have a national AGM.

    I would propose, subject to input from John and his team in Victoria, as well as your own executive that this be arranged as early as March.

    Circumstances across Australia with the rapidly escalating progress of MPA's and subsequent No Take Areas have positioned the party nationally with increasing support and an increased potential to muster the support of industry.
    This is clearly indicated by the shift in the position of AFTA and BIA and the attendance of Doug Joyner as a speaker at the ECOfishers meetings in Narooma and Bateman's Bay.

    As you are aware I have personally travelled to Sydney for a meeting with John Dunphy & the AFTA board, primarily to discuss industry support and help enhance our ability to make a serious challenge at the next election. We have also had meeting with the BIAQ board and believe enough evidence now exists to convince industry of the very real and co-coordinated efforts of the green lobby to severely reduce the popularity of recreational fishing.
    Circumstances are finally giving NSW a real issue, not dissimilar to the closure to the Great Barrier Reef, which ignited TFPQ in the first instance.

    A difficulty in dealing with any of industry is that we each go as a separate state, rather than a national body.

    While, nominally, the NSW branch "is" the National Body it is not representitive of the other states interests views and issues as each state works independently on state issues with little or no knowledge nor regard for other states issues.

    I would like to propose a national executive made up of members from each state. An overarching national constitution be adopted and with a prime responsibility of ratifying policy and election strategy and more importantly fundraising and budget allocations. TFPQ could and to some degree has gone down its own path in this regard but it does the party no good if each individual state then runs its own fundraising race and approaches the same companies for funding. It makes us look very uncoordinated and unprofessional.

    The potential to raise sufficient industry support exists but will not happen if we continue to present ourselves as secular state interest groups rather than a united national body with direction and national control.

    I look forward to your thoughts.



    AND


    Dear Robert,

    Thankyou for the copy of the TFP constitution and while I recognise a number of alterations and changes to this document it still gives some serious concerns as to the future relationship between TFP and TFPQ as we move forward.

    As discussed with you as far back as March 2004 I could not, in good conscience, work with a constitution so devoid of detail and obviously open to interpretation and this was the very reason the Qld branch drafted its own constitution before it started.

    We are now investigating the process of registering with the Qld Electoral Commission, which would allow us to stand in state elections and as such know the federal constitution will come under media scrutiny as part of this process. It is just too full of holes!

    While the TFPQ constitution adopted at our first AGM in September 2005 is by no means complex, it does cover the basis of fair election, spells out the process for internal procedures, membership rights, proxy voting, candidates selection, meeting structure and timeframes…..none of which are covered in the federal constitution.

    By way of example, how is or who changes the current federal constitution? Is it the executive? If so can they change this to a document more detailed and similar to the Qld model?

    Who is the current federal committee? When were they elected? By whom? Did members of the party (outside NSW) get notification of the meeting? Could they vote? Could they vote by proxy?

    I am not trying to make trouble, just position this organization for a major fundraising drive and can not, in light of past experience, go to industry with this kind of structure.

    If we register in Qld how do I answer questions pertaining to our federal structure and constitution?

    We cannot go to another federal election with this constitution and the sooner it is changed the better. It also needs to sperate the federal executive from the NSW executive.

    Robert I know you have a lot on the go now with a pending NSW election but this HAS to be fixed, it just has to.
    All the work done to this point will amount to nothing if it is not.

    I am attending a meeting in Brisbane Tuesday 7th February to form another Qld branch of the party. This will take us to 5 operational branches, Cairns, Whitsunday, Hervey Bay, Brisbane North and now Brisbane South with Townsville also looking to form an active branch of the Qld organization.
    Our numbers and media profile are growing and our political influence is most certainly well recognised.
    It would be tragic to waste this opportunity to move the organization forward on a national level, particularly now that recreational fishers in NSW have a cause to rally behind and Vic has had such success & profile with the Port Philip Bay dredging issue.

    If you are short of time or manpower I can have some of our team draft a federal constitution, which overarches the various state ones.

    Please Robert, fix this.



    Kevin Collins
    Chairman
    TFP (Qld)

    AND

    Does this mean TFPQ can/should register separately with the AEC?? This is not our advice because TFP is already registered. It would require a name change and that becomes an issue for our own internal constitution and can be changed at an AGM (which is due any time after March)....a pity given the time invested in the current name. Similarly TFP Vic would also to change its name to register separately with the AEC.

    At present we can register with the Qld Electoral commission as TFP (Qld) but can not register with the AEC as a separate entity, with a separate constitution, because TFP is already registered.

    Do you have someone who can give legal advice on electoral act issues?

    With respect your snipe about "me knowing better" is pretty harsh, we have been at this less than 2 years and the only election we have had during that period was a federal one. We are now, some 16 months out, going through the process of state registration because it is timely to do so. There was not much sense in directing time, effort and resources to a state election which you

    "did try and steer you in that direction right from the start and I wonder why it has taken so long to realise the State Election significance importance."

    When we have not actually even had one.

    I also do not understand the reluctance to having a more detailed constitution. It rang alarm bells with both myself and other foundation members straight away. Surely the party wants to attract people of energy, talent and hopefully, profile and these type of people, particularly if they have experience in the business world, would struggle with the constitution, just as we have done.

    I take it from sections of your letter that we in fact have no federal executive "when the Federal Executive was finally initiated" & "setting up the final federal executive structure" etc. Surely this and your ideas for a state by state voting structure are the very sort of things that should be included in a constitution or if not, you mention a set of by-laws. This is the first mention of these. Do we have any?

    Please clarify for me that TFP has in fact no federal executive. Dealing with the AEC are via the NSW branch.
    The NSW branch has registered a constitution with the AEC on behalf of all states as TFP which allows all states, regardless of state registration, to stand candidates in federal elections.
    Individual states can, upon gaining sufficient membership & fulfilling the obligations of its own state EC apply for state registration and stand candidates in state elections but CAN NOT register with the AEC because they are, by way of the lodgement by NSW, already registered and bound by the constitution as submitted to and accepted by the AEC.

    I trust you see my dilemma.

    We are bound, at a federal level, by the constitution you have already lodged and this is not a constitution we could, with any degree of professionalism, work within. Either it can be changed or TFPQ has to change its name and identity. Surely changing the constitution is easier and better for the party as a whole than having a divorce with all the negative publicity this will cause.

    This is easy to fix if there is a will to fix it. If however there is no will to fix it then clearly this is an example of why industry does not support the party when and as it should. This should be about the best interests of political representation of recreational fishing, not about individuals.

    Regards

    Kevin Collins
    Chairman
    The Fishing Party (Qld)






    & yes!!! There are lots more similar examples of TFPQ trying to get this mess fixed "in house" but all to no avail.

    It's now an open wound with Bob & his team happily plodding along and happy to see 3 years efforts go down the gurgler rather than deal with the root cause.

    Here in Qld sits an organisation which has made a difference, can make an even bigger difference and yet, they would rather see it destroyed than "lose control". Unbelievable.

    I remember my one and only meeting with Bob some years ago when I quizzed him about the party structure and how, on earth, he could operate under a chairman for life role with no voting rights or input allowed from members.
    His response was that he "didn't want to allow any trouble makers to get control of the party". Never dreamt at the time that "I" was going to be chief trouble maker...NEWS FLASH Bob....I don't want control of the party...I want that to be under the control, of the members.

    Talk of the "Federal" party is pure poppycock...the NSW party and federal party are one and the same.....same crew...same secret mens business..same paraniod fear that we are out to get them and same MO........no member input allowed, no state input allowed and they will tell us what's damn well good for us.

    The public bloodl-etting is not a good look but Ausfish witnessed the birth of TFPQ so should be privy to any death and know how it came about. When and if you have a chance to vote, at least you will know the background.

    I do have to say that one of the reasons we have not sent out membership renewals (many of which are now due) is the current scenario was always a possibility we had considered and we, in good concience could not go collecting membership fees if it was all going to go pear shaped.

    I should also add that while I don't support some of the posts made here used to draw Bob & Shane into the debate I understand their intent and they have done what I have not been able to do......get them involved.

    This no doubt still has a way to go yet but again the question remains.

    Why should a NSW based organisation nominate, select and campaign in our state when we have track record of doing it ourselves VERY effectively and have a 1200 members orgaisation more then capable of looking after our own interests?

    This is about person egos and personal gain. The best interests of the recreational fishing community and industry would be served by allowing TFPQ to determine what is best for Qld.

    Those who look over our shoulders must love this and love the probable outcome...one less threat to the cosy staus quo of the political syatem and rather than have to deal with us at the election...they can just enjoy wtaching us slelf destruct.


    & on a brighter note...I've got the morning off and I'm going fishing

    KC

  8. #53

    Re: Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party (AFLP) - Application For Registration

    Can someone tell me how I can resign from TFP whilst retaining my TFPQ membership???

    Adam
    p.s. Bob... If I am indeed a TFP member then can I please formally request a copy of the TFP constitution? As a member I presume you have my delivery details.


  9. #54

    Re: Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party (AFLP) - Application For Registration

    what a bloody mess. I joined TFP/TFPQ (whatever) around 3 years ago to try to help make a difference. I hope this is not the end. I still have some fight left in me. I hope there is a TFP candidate in the senate at the Fedaral election who I can vote for.

    As for you Adam, wipe behind those ears of yours and stop calling the kettle black. You are a has been who never was. It is the ultimate in hypocracy for you to be criticising others who have put so much time, effort and money into the cause.

    Jeremy
    Last edited by Jeremy; 07-08-2007 at 11:11 AM.
    "The underlying spirit of angling is that the skill of the angler is pitted against the instinct and strength of the fish and the latter is entitled to an even chance for it's life."
    (Quotation from the rules of the Tuna Club Avalon, Santa Catalina, U.S.A.)

    Apathy is the enemy

  10. #55

    Re: Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party (AFLP) - Application For Registration

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post

    As for you Adam, wipe behind those ears of yours and stop calling the kettle black. You are a has been who never was. It is the ultimate in hypocracy for you to be criticising others who have put so much time, effort and money into the cause.

    Jeremy

    OR what Jeremy??? You going to threaten me with violence AGAIN???

    I will request a face to face meeting so we can sort this out as men.

    Jeremy

    apathy is the enemy

    www.brisbanesportfishingclub.com.au
    Last edited by Jeremy : 27-02-2007 at 12:11 PM.
    Good way to contribute to a worthwhile debate mate! WELL DONE!!

    Now lets get back to the real issues - KC made some valid points and I want to see what Bob has to say about it! The resolution of this issue will determine what happens to Fishing representation in Qld - so now that the two protagonists have entered the arena lets hear what they have to say.

    Adam
    Last edited by Adamy; 07-08-2007 at 11:27 PM.


  11. #56

    Re: Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party (AFLP) - Application For Registration

    If I am indeed a TFP member then can I please formally request a copy of the TFP constitution? As a member I presume you have my delivery details.
    If they have one it hasn't been published that I am aware of, neither is it available on their website

    what a bloody mess. I joined TFP/TFPQ (whatever) around 3 years ago to try to help make a difference. I hope this is not the end. I still have some fight left in me. I hope there is a TFP candidate in the senate at the Fedaral election who I can vote for.
    When/if TFP get registered at a Federal level they should have candidates at the next election. They have already called for nominees. You better hope that Johnny Howard doesnt call an early election though.

    KC made some valid points and I want to see what Bob has to say about it! The resolution of this issue will determine what happens to Fishing representation in Qld - so now that the two protagonists have entered the arena lets here what they have to say.
    I think Bob has already said it if you read his response properly. TFP when/if they get registered are going it alone. They have already called for nominees for positions. Mind you, there is no guarantee they will get registered.

    Interesting point that someone may have an answer to - the TFP have objected to the registration of the AFLP. Has the AFLP, or those wanting to get it off the ground, objected to the Federal registration of TFP.

  12. #57

    Re: Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party (AFLP) - Application For Registration

    To Bob Smith:

    Do you have any idea of concerns regarding rec fishos in any part of Qld let alone all of it???

    If and when you select candidate/s...what will their platform be based on ??

  13. #58

    Re: Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party (AFLP) - Application For Registration

    Quote Originally Posted by RASA View Post


    Dicko Post
    “They struggle for even basic credibility on their own turf.”

    Dicko, you have not got a clue!

    Bob, maybe not in your eyes, that's your call.

    I do tend to have a rather simplistic view of where I donate funds to or lean my vote towards.

    The way I see it, in politics or lobbying, initially you have to sell yourself and your ideas to gain public support for the ideals you stand for. If the public or businesses have the same ideals and are suitably impressed by the organisation, the people involved and the direction they are traveling they'll donate financially, or come on board as helpers.

    More importantly they'll vote in your direction.

    I, nor any of my clueless southern based friends have been convinced of those qualities enough to put our hand in our pocket for the The Fishing Party Federally (or is it the fishing party NSW ? I'm also getting confused).

    I like the work KC & the gang have been doing in QLD & the credibility are slowly gaining, considering they are volunteers and operating on a shoestring. Communication could be better, but information is slowly unfolding as to the struggles with their long term direction.


    I was hesitant in joining up with TFP QLD because of the name tie in with your southern based Fishing Party. I can see now my gut feelings were correct.

    The QLD constitution is quite readily available and transparent in it's workings and executive make up, It's even on your site as well.

    Considering you are now claiming me as a member of "Your" federal fishing party, and the points raised by KC re the workings of "your" Fishing Party, can you direct me to "our" (?) constitution on your web site please ?

    alternatively, by email to gonefishingtoday (at) hotmail.com

    I can't lay my hand on my membership card or number at the moment, but here is a copy of the introduction letter from TFP QLD.
    Last edited by Dicko; 07-08-2007 at 03:18 PM.

  14. #59

    Re: Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party (AFLP) - Application For Registration

    So let me see if I have this right.
    TFPQ was humming along quite nicely, thank you very much KC,
    branches were formed including one on the Brisbane south side,
    some members of the south side branch did not agree with what was happening,
    a big blue erupts,
    the south side branch falls over,
    this has ramifications on other branches and members,
    a public slanging match endures for weeks with no winners,
    TFPQ sees the need to break free from the not so helpful TFP(NSW),
    the disenchanted few from the south side branch join forces with the NSW crew to get their own agenda,
    another slanging match begins,
    other political parties watch on and rub their collective hands together,
    TFPQ is blocked from breaking free,
    then...........
    I suspect...........
    existing TFPQ members get the $h!ts and leave en masse,
    these disenchanted members vote for, well anyone,
    TFP gets flogged at the next election due to lack of credibility,
    no one wins,
    nobody gets to become a politician, just tired, frustrated and blameful.
    What was it all about at the begining?
    Oh that's right, fishing and the common family man.
    then............
    I suspect............
    It was all for nothing.
    Anyway, thanks KC for trying. See you on the bowling green.
    Tim

  15. #60

    Re: Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party (AFLP) - Application For Registration

    Unfortunately, that seems to be a fairly accurate synopsis Tim

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