Tackling metreys in the sticks

[Big_Ren]

I have been seriously thinking of going the whole hog and getting the Erskine carbontex drag upgrades for my baitcasters.

It got me thinking about the way we approach tackling some of the bigger barra in the heavier timber and lantana of impoundments like Monduran and Faust.

The odds are definitely in a bigger barra's favour if he smashes your offering in amongst the timber and with one head shake he is back in the thick of his snag. It doesn't give us much chance even fishing as heavy as 50 mainline and 80 leader and reaction times have to be super responsive.

To date the only strategy we have been able to employ (and still with the odds stacked in favour of our quarry ) is to use fully locked up drags with added thumb pressure on the spool. This technique does not give much quarter to anything and often leads to spectacular bust offs, pulled leaders, bent trebles etc. But the adrenaline hit is still fun though

Just trying to tap into the thoughts of others to see what else works.

Cheers
Paul

[the_matrix]

Paul,
Locked drag (carbontex) super fast response, owners, 50lb braid, 80lb leader, knots that DONT fail,
pull like shit flat out. Get the fish's head up, they are stuffed then. High rod angles, try and get them to jump. If you let them dictate terms they will, even 60cm fish...........bust you up like cotton.
Rod and reel very important for timber combat..............what you have is about the best you can get!
Jas

[Big_Ren]

Jas

Great advice...we have been fishing lower rod angles to stop the fish jumping and at the same time, avoid the possibility of high sticking breakages....might have to compromise to lift the angle.....then I can only blame my knots huh....

As you might suspect, we fish 50/80 in the sticks with a Bimini double, braid to leader knot or improved albright (this is the weakest link I believe), leader runs from level wind to just past rod tip (standard) and perfection loop to lure (or a uni knot if we are fishing plastics). Hardware is also upgraded to ST-66 owners (#1 or #2 front and rear trebles) and halco 4xx splits.

We try to keep things as simple as we can but at the end of the day, many things can go wrong in the timber....our attitude is always gold though (beats the hell out of trolling doesn't it).

Cheers
Paul

[the_matrix]

Paul,
There are times when high sticking will help you. You'd be surprised how hard you can pull on them sticks, providing the angle does not become too acute.
I fish low rod angles too, and do my best to get the fish not to jump, but in heavy cover a jumping fish is one thats easier to get to the net. Big energy dump each time thay get air, as well as panic and confusion. Head is up as well.
If a fish gets to the base of the snag, sometimes its only a metre from it, your in deep trouble. By highsticking, assisting the fish to panic and rise is a fish that is not in control of its destiny, and a much higher chance to get to the net.

I dont use a bimini or double, havent for 12months or so. Slim beauty straight to the leader. Im yet to see that Knot give, and does away with time consuming bimini's (unless your Hodgie and can tie one in 30 seconds......shit he's bloody good!) and less knots makes good sense. You may be happy to stay with what you are doing, no drama's.
Its fun either way, although Im not a fan of losing fish, and dont accept it as readily as I used to. hehe must be gettn old. Theres always an answer in a bust off, a way to minimise repeat occurance.
Simple is good mate, its a simple thing we are trying achieve.
Catch up soon.
Jas

[BR65]

This technique does not give much quarter to anything and often leads to spectacular bust offs, pulled leaders, bent trebles etc. But the adrenaline hit is still fun though


Big Ren, thats why we love it mate.

cheers
Brian

[eotbmg]

Paul
Mate you know my thoughts on the Erskine upgrades. My curado is now a serious barra reel with a serious amount of stopping power. As Jason has pointed out your gear is the best you can get. I reckon the time will come when that big girl jumps on your lure and you will have everything in your favour and there it will be- a massive barra to remember always. Your chances at Awoonga how i have been fishing in the weed are hugely higher to casting lures into the snags at either Awoonga or Monduran. So i reckon you need to put the odds in your favour!!!! Hopefully that weekend we are at Monduran we will see some big fish come aboard-and all of us will have a big fish to brag about.
Cheers
Ben

[Big_Ren]

Jas.....yep I might have to just pull like shit to get their heads up (and get the boys to keep their sunnies on in case a lure comes whipping out of a barra's mouth towards them )..I will have to change my fighting angle, cause we are sometimes almost fishing with our tips in or near the water...we probably don't work the hard bodies as vigorously as you do, but there is still a fair twitch, twitch, twitch and pause happening.

Aside from rod angle, I think one of the biggest factors influencing the outcome in a timber battle is simply reaction time...I have been guilty in the past of "giving" to the fish for just a fraction of a second (thinking it's a snag I have driven my lure into and trying to float it over)....instead of "giving it" to the fish......as I often say...doubt leads to hesitation, hesitation leads to failure.....have no doubt, there will be no hesitation and you will not fail....

This all may sound complicated but when I am on the water I am having a ball and keeping it as simple as I can.

Ben....the Erskine upgrades will be happening, even to the Black Sheep First I have to get me some of them Pop Eye Arms . Monduran can be such a tough place to fish at times especially on those Oh No moments where you just lose concentration for a sec and get slammed. Looking forward to 1000 casts a day again.

Cheers
Paul

[McCod]

Metreys in the sticks....My favorite subject Yes the carbontex washers are great and perform well by them selfs, But they perform even better if the steel friction discs are modified a bit . The plates are not flat but are concaved as they are usually punched out of a sheet of metal . An option is to lap both side the steel discs with some 600 grain sand paper on a pane of glass with a circular motion until the whole thing is scratched ..... If you do it already then you will know how untrue the plates are straight out of the box .this will improve drag pressure as well as smoothness. I run mainly Daiwa CVZ 203's for heavy timber @ Monduran with carbontex or perfection drag washers. Recently upgraded from 50 lb to 60 lb braid, And as for leaders..... give em not an inch!! Been using doubled 150lb braid or plaited very thick 50lb braid as leaders for over a year now with no leader failures. This is the best leader set up I've found so far . I guess one day it will fail but its heaps tougher than mono leaders. Still using the lower rod angles as i think you need to be pulling the fish towards the boat and not the sky. I can see the high rod angle has some merit in some cases but i'm not convinced yet that its the way to go on meter fish in heavy timber. I am willing to give the high sticking ago one day if i can retrain the brain

Cheers Les

[the_matrix]

Hey Paul,
Like Ive said earlier mate, go with what you know. Im offering some insight on other methods but take from it what you wish.
High rod angles are used to get the fish's head up, once you achieve that you can go from the hip. Its hard to explain the exact tecnique I use, Ive done it that many times that I sort of go into autopilot, split seconds are crucial.
I too use the rod tip very close to the waterline, however, when I get struck I lstrike in an upwards motion hard, pump and wind like hell, to try to get the fish's head up. Then I go back to the hip.
Its about dictating terms, thinking back where some of the fish I have pulled out of just bullshit territory, where highsticking assisted the fish being out of control and jumping, which made the capture.
Head down, gosh as you all know fish as small as 600 will stich you up. Im also using fairly deep lures too, so they are already one step ahead.
Short bursts of power........not much else like it.
Jas

[Big_Ren]

Les

I have a few options in the timber.....a Chronarch 100 BSV on 50, a Luna 253 on 50 or a Black Sheep 300 on 80. I will probably get the Erskine upgrade on all of them I think. Les, are you saying the Erskine upgrade will need some fine-tuning work when I get the reels back? I'm also very curious in your leader set-up....

I have made a few twisted leaders up myself (Erskine style) but still don't trust using snaps (even the Halco crosslock h/d ones). Are you running a double at all? How are you connecting your plaited leader to it....and how long is your plait? And is your final connection a snap or knot or loop. Sorry for so many questions but this intrigues me......are you not worried about the spook factor coming into play instead of using a low vis fluorocarbon leader to the lure? Any advice greatly appreciated.

Jas

I'm an information soak so any new method in the arsenal has to be better than having no other cards to play on the table I get what you mean now though. All good stuff I am going to put into practice in two weeks....one step at a time I guess but hopefully will form into a natural habit for me.

Top class information so far...thanks heaps.

Paul

[McCod]

Yeah Paul i usually still do a double.... mostly a 70 turn bimini of around 20 cm long. I hand twist aprox 2.5 meters or more of 150lb power pro into a double then just tie a granny knot at the end , I then attach the leader to main line double via cats paw splice i think its called.... the same way you would attach a Knotted Dog type leader “loop end to double”. And if plaiting 3 ply thicker 50,60 lb or even 3ply 35lb Fireline XDS works OK! You fold aprox 2 meters of it in half then get a single piece the same length and tie a granny knot about 2 centimeters from the loop end then start plaiting until you've had enough or when ya run out of line to plait then tie off the end via a good old granny knot this leader can then be attached via the same method as above. The 3 ply method was what i used to test the idea before i went the whole hog and got some 150lb Power Pro. The stuff is great for tying single straight to rubbers .You can attach it to the lure what ever way you want! I still use #6 cross lock snaps that i get out of the USA a fair bit but will sometimes attach via a loop knot if using the same lure all day or tying on to something like a small bibbed rip bait “Bomber type minnow” . If using the cross locks i put on a new one every day. If ya gunna attach via a loop knot or something similar then cut the loop knot when changing lures that way the leader will not untwist. As for presentation for barra..... i don't think it's an issue as they just seem to just stay focused on what they are going to eat. 150lb braid is like as thick as 30lb mono and even doubled is fairly thin and you get a better action out of the lure than you do with heavy mono.And regarding the lapping of the steel washers...... If they are not lapped they will not work as good!! Jack will do it for you if your sending the reels to him I'm sure.


Cheers Les

[Big_Ren]

Many thanks Les, there's some quality information to digest there I run a 70 turn bimini myself but usually about twice the length of yours. I take it that the granny knot you putting in the end of the hand twisted double is being used as your cats paw connection to the double.

But in my mind you've still got two free tag ends twisted at the lure end?? Not sure how this connects to the lure. I'll give it a try over the weekend and it might all come together.

If you happen to be fishing Monduran anytime between 21st and 24th March, we'll be there, so let us know if you'd like a beer while we're there. We'll be camping in the park at this stage. I trust that the Skeeter is still going great guns.

Cheers
Paul

[Bad_Bazza]

Hi Les,
Some very intersting info there mate. I have been looking for another direction after having a beast at Awoonga get through an 80 lb Erskine style leader with about 25 cm of twist at the bottom set up in the same way as shown in a previous thread on the site.
The fish chewed through the twisted section.
It jumped 7 times with plenty of greyhounding in between times and was beleiving that I had things under control when the bust off occurred.
**** happens !

Regards
Bad_Bazza

[the_matrix]

Bad Bazza,
No matter what anyone tells you, there is no leader material available that is 100% Barra proof. They are incredibly hard on the buisness end (as you know).
Ive used braids (120lb Platypus) as leader as well and still got chewed off. A good friend who once swore by it, who also guides now doesnt.

I dont use twisted leaders, but I know plenty of bloody good anglers that use them EVERY day, and the twisted leaders give them the "most" success. I know others that put as much time in and use single 80.
What Im saying is dont give up on it if its the first breakage you have had, particuarily if the same system has landed you 50 others. It may have been where you hooked your fish was the place you least wanted to (where the most damage could occur). Thats just bad luck more than anything.

I have been using tie-able wire for the past 12 months. I thought it was as close to perfect as I would get. Last night I got cut off by a big wild fish. First bust off I have had in over 12 months! And I do fish a lot.
I still think what I am using is the best of what I have tried in the past, by a country mile. I have confidence in it, Les has confidence in Braid, Matty Coleman has confidence in twisted, as does Lindsay Dobe and a ton of others.
Dont be lulled into thinking a particular one will be the answer to all your problems.

Jaw pressure is an amazing thing, and does incredible damage to hooks, leaders and split rings. Just remember, once you start using serious leader material, make sure everything else is up to scratch. The shock will be transfered down the line and source out the weakest link. Thats a certainty.
Good luck with it.
Jas

[Feral]

80lb leader is getting very thick, anyone tried wire instead?