Should the Brisbane South Branch of TFPQ be closed?

[Bruce_Bogtrotter]

there you go Wal, from the horses mouth..won't get a better answer than that.
BB

[kc]

Following is a post from another thread but for the benifit of Wally and any others who are looking at Ausfish from a Western Australian perspective and have been following the WA "debate" about forming a TFPWA this post is equally relavent.

The Qld peak bodies and lobby groups could just as easily be Recfish WA and the aglers alliance formed by Ben Patrick at Halco.


Grant makes a good fist of this and it is important to demonstrate just how “we” fit into the picture, or at least how we see ourselves fitting in.

The involvement of organised and co-ordinated lobbying in the fisheries and environmental management is taking a leaf from the environmental lobby.
Just as the various arms or “pieces of the pie” of the environmental lobby are “apolitical”, groups such as the Wilderness Society, WWF, Queensland Conservation Council, National Parks Association and AMCS, so too should MBAA remain apolitical (to a degree).

What the greens have, within their broad church of lobby groups, is a political arm. A group whose job is to gather votes and trade politically for a better deal (and access for the lobby groups)
It is the job of the varied arms of the environmentalist to do the work, lodge the submissions, sit on the various industry councils and advisory boards, not the political wing. You will notice on any advisory board there are no representatives of the political system but most certainly representatives of the various lobby groups who are in turn supported by the influence of the votes gathered by their political wing.

Some may have noticed the “square up” which occurred after the last Federal election when the funding to many and varied environmental lobby groups was cut. The influence of the political wing, the Greens, was no longer as important.

So, as we evolve and learn the lessons of 25 years of environmental activism and political influence where are “we”

In our “pie” we have QSIA, Sunfish, Sunfish NQ, Recfish and now, most certainly MBAA.
We have TFPQ, which has now demonstrated, both federally and at a state level, that it can muster 7% of the vote.
TFPQ has, in the last 3 years, tried to be all things. It has written the submissions, sat on the panels and tried to be lobbyists. All we should be doing is working on maximising votes, which in turn empower the lobby groups.
In political circles we have had very significant results in areas which are of little interest to average fishos and little interest to the lobby groups. Things like the changing of the law in respect of mandatory criminal convictions for fishing offences and the structural adjustment payouts to businesses affected by rezonings.

It was described to me at the start of all “this” that ultimately, and to use the exact analogy. This is a bit like a BBQ. The peak bodies and lobbyists are the BBQ plate. They do the work, they, to some degree get the headlines and the kudos and the party is the fire underneath. The more heat (votes) we can provide the better the plate can do its job.

Personally, I am delighted to see MBAA taking the lead on the Bay. They have a good cross section of representation. A well respected chair in Bruce Alvey and, I would like to think, some understanding of the level of influence they have being linked to the growing political activism of the fishing industry.

Had TFPQ not been active would Andrew Laming have started the ball rolling with MBAA in the first place? Would we have the current profile of fishing and the bays rezoning? Would fishing be news? Take as a case in point the boat rally. MBAA did all the work, we did our bit getting politics (and politicians) involved…they bring the press and TFPQ gets their head on every TV station (even though they interviewed others) and the rezoning issue is news.

Look at Traveston Dam….the local Dam Busters do the work and organising, Bob Brown shows up with the media circus, Dam Busters get the publicity and images and Bob Brown does the sound bites for TV. That’s how it works!!!

As has been pointed out. We are in this together. The whole, rec pro thing will be a debate which never goes away and I am sure there is often disagreements within the broad church of the environmental lobby but this has not stopped them being enormously effective, at our expense.
TFPQ can stand by its policy statement since day 1. We oppose any form of fishing which is unsustainable.

There are going to be disagreements, head buts and growing pains along the way……..for sure, but as at right now, the fishing “movement” is a whole lot different to what it was 3 years ago when the reef was rezoned and public input into the process ignored.
This will not happen in the Bay.

Support MBAA as the peak body representing your rights on the Bay and, far more importantly working on the inside.
No such opportunity ever existed when the reef was rezoned. The environmental lobby had a ring side seat but fishing was absolutely excluded.

TFPQ will do its bit come election time. We will again gather enough votes to determine who wins the last Senate seat in Qld and this in turn empowers the fishing industry and it’s lobbyists. If we have learnt one thing it is to lobby without offering something in return is really just begging. Votes are the only thing that matters to a politician. It is not about right, wrong, just or fair. It is about votes and staying in power.

KC

[PADDLES]

sorry wal, didn't mean 'wake up' to sound insulting.

no way i could answer your question, but kc looks to have done a good job and has also answered some of the questions in my mind as to what tfpq has achieved.

[Wally]

Thanks KC for the reply, The one thing that has me against the TFP is the rules and policies that they have, and from a fair few posts over a few sites I gather sometimes they don't fit with the QLD TFP either, which has me worried

and here

Wally I have read the entire 483 post "discussion" on the WA site. I understand your position and have to say, I have been "disappointed" at the comments made at times by Bob. Part of the reason the Fishing Party, in Qld, has a "strained" relationship with TFP federally is the attitude of the federal "executive" but I am not going down this road.

what may be good for Bob in pretty NSW isn't going to fit in with a coast line that stretches 14,000km ( WA), which is why I asked him if we could have our own policies. his answer to that was as long as they fit in with the guild lines of the TFP take what you wish out of that

The silly part about it KC is he doesn't realize that their are a lot of doers over here and are willing to help out, but some of his remarks have put them on the back foot, and they aren't rushing in, to give this a push, and certainly I for one can see why, I keep asking how many members he has in WA but wont get a response, methinks the reason why is the above. remember to I did hand out flyers the last time this was banded around

From me looking in, it seems that yeah you have problems but at least you giving it a good shot, maybe someone from TFP should give you a little more credit where it is due hey

No worries paddles

Wally

[Hunta]

FRom the perspective of an outsider looking in - I certainly dont see the effects of a "strained" relationship of the Qld entity to the "mothership" of the NSW based entity. On the surface, they look like two separate organisations doing their own thing - but I guess both have the same basic intentions and philosophies?

I was pretty impressed - if what Derek says is true that TFP has managed to put up 20 candidates in the NSW State elections. I hope they do well for the sake of the fishing vote in general.

Anyway Wally maybe that is the way forward for your group? Run a separate organisation with links to TFP? but then again I dont know much about how all this works. Maybe KC can clarify?

Shirl

[kc]

Fair call Shirl.

It is clearly the case that TFPQ and TFPNSW have different views on some issues. We differ in our belief that a group based in NSW can be all things to all people. We believe that the deregistration of the party will be a watershed opportunity to rebuild and reshape at a federal level with a new structure, constitution and new roles and responsibilities and look forward to being part of this.

I know Wally and others got very uppity about some group on the other side of the country telling the WA guys what they may or may not be able to do in terms of policy but I do not believe this issue was properly explained.

I have to admit I can’t keep across issues in Qld and without the help of many people doing the hard yards, feeding in the info and ideas I would have no hope. Issues such as the zoning of Moreton Bay and issues on Fraser are prime examples and I have to acknowledge the work Shane has done in this regard.

What should be pointed out is any viewing to TFP policy will note it is all very motherhood stuff with very little one could complain about but also very little detail. It forms a simple broad church of direction and beliefs.
Look then at QLD policy and you will find it much more specific, regionalised and detailed but still working within the motherhood realm of “improving fishing”.

A case in point.

Policy

1. In respect of the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park and associated zoning framework, it is the policy of TFPQ that an overhaul of zonings implemented as at July 1st 2004 take place to lessen the burden on the recreational fishing community. Such overhaul to work within the framework of available evidence and opt for split reef systems rather than the current practice of whole reef green zones. That a clear distinction at legislative and enforcement level be recognised between the varied fisheries techniques used by recreational and commercial sectors and an adherence to the governing laws applicable to the GBR which both allow and encourage reasonable and sustainable use. As part of this review an increase in the number of Pink zones and directly contrasting reduction in Green zones in hard reef areas and other areas of particular and identifiable biological importance.

This is Qld specific policy, that still fits within the framework of TFP generally.

I would have expected that a TFPWA could and would come up with a whole range of region specific policies along these lines.

I know Wally has a bee up his &% about RFL’s and this has been an issue of debate across Ausfish many times. TFPQ opposes RFL’s but if members wanted that policy changed and put forward a motion for such at an AGM and it was adopted, then it would be changed. Our current beef about RFL’s is really to do with a further reason to not go fishing, not take it up in the first place. Everywhere RFL’s have been introduced, both participation and compliance has fallen. Personally I disagree with RFL’s but not on grandiose ideological terms about citizen’s rights etc . Just that they stop people from participating, stop kids starting and it is just another tax.

I felt a couple of times Wally that I should have stuck my head into the WA debate but it is just none of my business. Trying to run TFPQ is already overwhelming. It is up to you guys, if you want to make change, to get involved. Despite its shortcomings TFP and its various state branches are the first real attempt at political representation by any sporting “group”. It will only get better with time, get better with involvement of others and get better with a renewed and progressive direction at federal level.

I will say again, from my experience, more can be achieved through political activism than can ever be achieved by lobbying, petitions, submissions and peak bodies. I hope someone in WA picks up the ball (or poison chalice) and runs with it.

It is thankless, time consuming and the better halves end up thinking you have an on line girlfriend the amount of time it ends up taking up at night……but, at the end of the day, when we have a little win against the bastards, it’s as good as pulling a meter barra from a tight snag on 4kg.

The WA debate (s*&fisght) could have been handled better...so should the start of this particular thread. If you Wally want to take back to WA some of what can and has been achieved in QLD just email me on kc@whitsunday.net.au or give me a call on 0414 785 462. I am happy to provide the help but really can't do any of the work. It's just none of my business but I do know what you guys face in WA is very much the same issues as are faced across the country.

Get seriuos and give politcal activism a chance. What have you got to lose.....beside sleep, your wife and your hair ...sounds like you are already losing lots of your fishing!

Cheers mate

KC

[Gazza]

Wally walpamur , NO seperate RFL has e-v-e-r worked in W.A. e-v-e-r
Please explain??

RFW has less members than a votable party in w.a. , even if they pretend their the Peak Party, and should represent you.
Please explain??

The SEQ BRANCH should remain ,the difficult job of "who" leads that, with amplified support ,is to be decided....apparently

VOTE the candidate(s) in your electorate....if you choose

Gazza

[Owen]

Let me see.....
The elected officials of TFP deem it appropriate to discuss party business on an internet forum and I'm expected to believe they have the political nouse to represent my interests in parliament????
wake up to yourselves gentlemen.