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Thread: oxygenised bait

  1. #16

    Re: oxygenised bait

    Well in all seriousness, and not saying oxygen won't work..but I'd go the ammonia neutraliser before I bothered with oxygen.
    I know what you mean about fish breeders packing fish in oxygen enriched bags for shipment, it's just as common here. But that's an altogether different situation to the standard bait tank, and in that way it makes enormous help.
    but as far as I know, ammonia is the single deadliest enemy of fish, and the technology has been around for ages to do this, although I haven't ever bothered with it, it's been for sale at aquariums for ages. I assume it works..as I've been in conversations with other fish breeders who speak of it as if there's no question, and seem perplexed I have no experience with it, so it must be popuar. It's not going to get rid of all ammonia, but I reckon it'll help. It wouldn't be all that expensive would it?
    ammonia fairly builds up when fish stress, so it all makes good sense.

    cheers
    rob
    Last edited by robyoung2; 14-02-2007 at 12:41 AM.

  2. #17

    Re: oxygenised bait

    Ammonia acts a strong irritant, especially to the gills. Prolonged exposure to sub-lethal levels can lead to skin and gill hyperplasia . Gill hyperplasia is a condition in which the secondary gill lamellae swell and thicken, restricting the water flow over the gill filaments. This can result in respiratory problems and stress.
    Fish response to ammonia are similar to those to any other form of irritation, i.e. flashing and rubbing against solid objects.

    Yeah.. I would go for the ammonia neutralizer.
    _______________
    Does fish ever retaliate?
    http://joran-fishingtips.blogspot.com

  3. #18

    Re: oxygenised bait

    hmm, interestinger and interestinger.

    I actually have two different products in my garage that I used with limited success for keeping herring alive when land based jacking. One is an ammonia lock type product and the other a 'conditioner' I think. I just can't be bothered going out to the garage and rooting around to find them.

    It is something that I would be interested in using for a better mortality rate when gathering herring as the ones that stay in the cast net for a microsecond to long (that is don't fall out straight into the bucket) seem to cark it. I'd just be interested to see if the oxygen increased the percentages of mortality there.

    Also this 'supercharging' of otherwise healthy and active bait to make them mega active. If they actually get more wiggle in them from oxygen it would be interesting to see what happens to a yacka when it hits the water.

  4. #19

    Re: oxygenised bait

    IMO increasing O2 will allow you to increase the density at which you stock the tank and possibly reduce the stress of the live bait at lower stocking densities. How this transfers to improved catches one can only guess. Someone may have mentioned this also, that O2 will oxidise the toxic ammonia NH3 to non toxic nitrate NO3 therefore allowing you to keep your bait for longer periods without water exchanges. If you are in a boat, why not use all that water on the outside of the boat with one big sucker of a pump if you want to keep bait at higher densities. You could even add a venturie (not sure of spelling) to increase the O2 content of the water. Lugging O2 bottles around seems unecessary and dangerous.

  5. #20

    Re: oxygenised bait

    The percentage difference between dissolved oxygen from pumped aeration and pumping 100% pure oxygen through an aerator into the water is miniscule on a measured scale. (We are talking ppm quantities here.)
    It does make a difference to the bio-availabillity of dissolved oxygen in the water though, which is basically the answer that you are after. More oxygen is available to the fish = less stress and whatever other benefits that are claimed.

    You have the dough - then by all means go for this system.

    As a safety professional in a facillity where we handle major amounts of oxygen, a small word of caution.

    Oil auto ignites in an oxygen enriched atmosphere.

    Make sure that your oxygen piping connections are tight and not contaminated by any kind of hydrocarbon. That will include things like not using silicone to get a gas tight seal on the piped connections etc.

    Have fun with the gadgets

    Wessel

  6. #21

    Re: oxygenised bait

    think I'll go for some ammolock too. My last livies died in half an hour becasue I set the pump on for 5 mins and turned it off cos its so noisy.duh. I meant to turn it back on, but forgot. So adding a timer as well should be the best solution for me.

    I dont reckon the fancy toys are worth the money. Let us kow how you go with it tho mooks.

    How does ammonia come about? Do the fish expel it?

    cheers
    Andrew

  7. #22

    Re: oxygenised bait

    I've always used a spoon full of coffee in the tank. Gets the livies going like the clappers .

  8. #23

    Re: oxygenised bait

    I think it's a big no no on the oxygen being used in the boat . Mainly because when you stop at the shop and someone steals your oxygen cylinder you'd be partly responsible for creating yet one more boating related oxygen thief and we all know that there is too many out there already .

  9. #24

    Re: oxygenised bait

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_F View Post
    IMO increasing O2 will allow you to increase the density at which you stock the tank and possibly reduce the stress of the live bait at lower stocking densities. How this transfers to improved catches one can only guess. Someone may have mentioned this also, that O2 will oxidise the toxic ammonia NH3 to non toxic nitrate NO3 therefore allowing you to keep your bait for longer periods without water exchanges. If you are in a boat, why not use all that water on the outside of the boat with one big sucker of a pump if you want to keep bait at higher densities. You could even add a venturie (not sure of spelling) to increase the O2 content of the water. Lugging O2 bottles around seems unecessary and dangerous.
    This is true, ideally you would have frequent or even continuous water changes, preferably by a pump from outside the boat as mentioned above. With aquariums where water changes are less frequent, an ammonia neutralizer combined with aeration to move the surface water (which results in higher levels of dissolved oxygen) are needed. I am not an expert, but since the waters surface is the really only place gas exchange takes place, I am not certain that moving the water with pure oxygen through an aerator will result in any higher oxygen content in an open air environment. For the most part, whatever you can do to move or break the waters surface (ie: aerator/pump/fountain) will work to promote oxygen exchange. Since you are not trying to keep an actual aquarium but only trying to extend the lifespan of some overstocked bait by literally a few hours in extremely non-ideal conditions Ammo-Lock should be all you really need. If you are able to conveniently change the water now and then when it starts looking bad and/or getting too warm...even better. Just remember to add the Ammo-Lock to the new water. If you can add to that an appropriate sized aquarium aerator or water pump to move the water around you will be doing more for your bait than most people do for their aquariums.

    However, doing these things will just make your fish more comfortable and cause them to behave more as a fish normally would. You can get "mega-active" fish (for a very short while at least) by allowing the ammonia to build up to a point where it causes physical stress and starts freaking them out. Then they die.
    Last edited by bordeaaj; 15-02-2007 at 02:45 PM.

  10. #25

    Re: oxygenised bait

    Quote Originally Posted by themooks View Post
    Dear Gunna, piss off, love Mark!!

    Dear CQ_Freshie,

    Thanks for the explanation. Contrary to popular belief though I am actually a bit clever myself and know most of that. The bit about oxygen being a flammable gas may have been technically incorrect but as you would be carrying a bottle of compressed oxygen next to a container of fuel and possibly oil and other nasties I said this to stop people giving me the safety lecture. I was just trying to save a few words.

    Regarding the oxygenisation. If you read the site they are getting pretty techo here and measuring dissolved O2 in PPM. They say that you cannot super saturate seawater with oxygen using any standard live well system that pumps in fresh water or uses an aerator. They then show a diagram of a meter measuring DO (dissolved oxygen) with a standard livewell system and then their system.

    Read the link here and get back to me http://www.oxyedge-chum.com/supercharging.htm it's quite interesting.
    what is the problem with that ???

  11. #26

    Re: oxygenised bait

    would be carrying a bottle of compressed oxygen next to a container of fuel and possibly oil and other nasties

    Themooks was probably saying that tongue in cheek at the time.

    Unfortunately my sense of civil duty made me make a comment that oil auto ignites in an oxygen enriched environment. A fact which mooks is more than aware of I am sure..... but to be on the safe side I made the comment just in case he was not quite aware of it.

    Wessel

  12. #27

    Re: oxygenised bait

    wessel..a bit of oxygen and oil is not a problem...put it under pressure and KABOOM....some bloke working on a trawler fridge system up north a few years back found out the hard way...instead of pressure testing the system with nitrogen he decided to use oxygen...fair bit of pressure...oil in the compressor...it exploded...took half his head with it...a lesson for all.

  13. #28

    Re: oxygenised bait

    Few years back I was working on a vehicle rescue. Driver seriously hurt and the fire guys did a roof flip for us.
    While busy stabilising the patient we got to the point where we could remove him from his seat. I was sitting on the dashboard of the car at that point in charge of his airway. For the move out of the vehicle we briefly removed the oxygen mask of his face in order to have less wires and tubes to contend with. I placed the mask behind me, basically directing the oxygen flow over some warm engine oil....... it literally was seconds after that the engine bay caught fire. (100% pure oxygen onto hot oil = fire)

    Talk about a rapid exit......

    The current industry safety flash doing the rounds around here is of a mechanical guy who was working on a leaking valve stem on an oxygen plant. The gloves he was wearing was oil impregnated, the oxygen escaping from the valve stem was enough to cause auto ignition of the gloves. He was lucky not to have lost his fingers, but he will need major surgery to repair the damage to his hands.

    Oxygen is great stuff and people should not be scared of it. Just know that there are certain rules when you want to play with it. Especially when you want to install in below deck in a boat.

    Wessel

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