Leader help please

[MagicRik]

ok im not sure where to start with this question really, i pretty much need help or advice on which is the best type of leader to use, the best way of attaching it to the line..knots, crimping etc...How do i attach a leader to a lure ... same as attaching a line?

[szopen]

I had a look at your question a few times.
As there was no response so far I gathered enough courage to try a reply.

It is a very wide subject with a lot of personal. sometimes contradictory opinions.

My point of view:

Leaders fall into two basic categories:

1. Leaders weaker than the main line
2. Leaders stronger than the main line.

Alhough most of leader discussions on the Ausfish center on the second category it can not be forgotten that the leaders idea originated from the first one.

A bit more details.

Category 1.

You would use a leader weaker than your fishing line if:
a. You want the rig to break at the leader not to loose a main line and possibly rest of the rig.
b. You need a thinner (weaker) leader to make your bait presentation to fish a little less obvious/visible.

Category 2.
You would use a leader stronger than the main line if:
a. For one of the many reasons possible you use a main line that can not stand up to the task.
b. Somebody has convinced you to do so. ::)

In this category possible reasons would include:
- abrasion resistance, this could be a wire leader for toothy creatures, thick mono/fluorocarbon leader for fishing in rocky area/oyster beds/targeting fish with abrasive exterior and so on.
- in some situations with the main line strength good for handling a fish at longer ranges a much stronger leader would be needed to handle fish close to the boat/shore where you can tighten the drag or use hands to get the fish closer or out of water (billfish fishing comes to mind)

I know that this all sounds very general but it is a very general question.

What do I do?

Category 1.
Loop to loop connection, figure 8 knot at both sides.

Category 2.
As I prefer to keep things simple:
- Uni to uni knot if I the main line is braid and I want a wind on leader (a leader main line connection where I want to be able to wind on the leader through the guides on a rod) and the diameter of both main line and leader are not too different. I do not use this very often.
- If I do not attempt a wind on leader (most situations) I would use a sviwel on the end of leader and than use uni knot to connect braid or trilene knot to connect mono/fluorocarbon, for wire leaders I crimp the wire to the sviwel and than main line as above.

As to the various knots and detailed rigs try going through the posts on the tackle and saltwater sections, there were some good pictures and links provided.

A quick google of the: "fishing knots" helps as well, one of the results below with a fair bit of knots described.

http://www.netknots.com/html/fishing_knots.html

[MagicRik]

Thanks szopen, i was not sure if i was doing it right i use a 12lb leader to my 9lb main and connect ithem with a swivel and two uni knots :-/

[MagicRik]

i forgot something, i was thinking of using the wire leaders that are all ready to go out of the packet............any input on those?

[szopen]

MagicRik,

Regarding the first question.
12lb leader to 9lb main line.
It all depends on what are you actually chasing.
As I have written above if you are trying to make your bait presentation more disguised one and you chasing smaller fish (Category 1 situation) use a leader thinner (weaker) than your main line.
If you are after leader strength at the last few meters of line use a stronger one.

For the actual 9/12lb set up I would not bother with a stronger leader at all as the breaking strength difference between 9 and 12 lb lines is not significant if you take into consideration the amount of knots (which always weaken the line) that you have to use.
Simply saying more knots more weaker points between you and the fish.
If you want to use a 9lb main line to chase bigger fish I would either tie the line directly to the lure/hook or use a weaker (thinner mono/fluorocarbon leader) to make sure that if you snagged or hit by an unstoppable the leader (or the main line knot) will break and your main line will be fine.

With the second question on use of ready made wire leaders out of the packet and connection through a sviwel and a two uni knots.

As far as my limited fishing experience goes I have seen ready made wire leaders with a sviver on one end and a split ring or some other sort of quick connection on the other side (or none whatsever as is the case with wolfram leaders in Europe where you have to add your own bits and pieces).
If I was to use a leader like this I would use a uni knot if main line was braid or trilene knot if main line was mono.

Now lets get back to my real fishing a bit as this mught be more helpful than lots of theories.

I use a few set ups and the thinking behind them is gathered from fishing and observing fishing in quite a few places around the world. I can not say that this is the best way only that it works for me.

1. Fishing using a pole type rod witha delicate float, Something that would be called coarse fishing in UK. Main line 3-5lb, loop to loop connected leader from 1 to 3lb based on how actively fish are feeding (less active thinner) and how do they fight (if you loose 2-3 fish in a row with leader knot breaking go up in leader strength). This is what I would use when targeting smaller fish (up to 4lb) like roach/bream in Europe or tilapia in Asia.

2. Stronger outfit. Rod with a reel and 6-8lb main line. Loop to loop connected leader 4-6lb. Used for bait fishing (usually of the bottom with a running sinker). In Europe this would be for large freshwater bream, carp in Asia freshwater carp, grasscarp or small catfish.

3. Lure or soft plastics set up. Same reel as above with 6-8lb main line connected directly to the lure.

(Set ups 2 and 3 are on a baitcaster with mono or a spin reel with the same mono)

4. Spin reel with 30lb PowerPro braid (same reel as above just spare spool used). This used with braid tied directly to lure/bait or if toothy creatures are targeted tied with uni knot to wire leader sviwel.
Used for pike, salmon, steelhead in Europe, large catfish in Asia, light saltwater fishing everywhere. Last 2 meters of braid painted black with marker pen.

5. Large trolling reels with 50lb PowerPro braid for salt water trolling, jigging, bottom bashing. Leader varies.
- 30-50-70 lb wire
- 20-30-40-65lb fluorocarbon.
Leader strenth depending on fish feeding activity.
All wire crimped.
Rarely ready shop bought leader used.
Wire if after toothy ones, fluorocarbon if the action is slow or no bite offs experienced.
Leader length around 1 metre, Wire leader paited black with a marker pen.

[rajawolf]

I have been trying out the twist and melt wire leaders...they seem very strong...

I have had a bucket of water weighing around 18kg hanging on to a 13 kg wire leader now for a week...

I dont know what pressure a fish will apply on a hit....but u can buy this leader in bigger or smaller kg strengh.

[fishingnottake]

geez raja that's a long haul fight you're preparing for there, have you tried lifting the bucket slightly and just dropping it?

[thelonegranger]

Magikrik, drop a quick message to us regarding the species your chasing and in what environment, SZOPEN has a pretty bloody thorough knowledge on line and traces, I reckon if you name your target, he'll nail your question.

To SZOPEN, mate, top response to this fella, You are a credit to the game in taking time to explain to a fellow angler. Cheers ;D :-*

[thelonegranger]

Magikrik, drop a quick message to us regarding the species your chasing and in what environment, SZOPEN has a pretty bloody thorough knowledge on line and traces, I reckon if you name your target, he'll nail your question.

To SZOPEN, mate, top response to this fella, You are a credit to the game in taking time to explain to a fellow angler. Cheers ;D :-*

[rajawolf]

Ash,

not game to drop the bucket...it might break.

Besides I cant lift 18 kg :P

[revs57]

Yeah I agree with TLR...Well done szopen - great article and complete response - should be writing for a fishing mag ;)...this is what ausfish is really about I reckon ;D

cheers

Rhys

[szopen]

Well thanks boys,

I think I'm blushing.

I did try to make a point that there are many reasons to choose a leader for various situations.
From what I read on this site the most popular aproach in your part of the world is a heavy mono or fluoro tied to a lighter line usually as a wind on leader..

This will work well in some situations but it is not the only way.

I will use the opportunity to make a couple more remarks.

1. If there is no obvious need for a leder do not use one. A very good example is SP or lure fishing with strong braid as a main line. I just tie the line directly to the eye of the bait (use marker pen to paint last 1-2m black) and that is it. If you are snagged in majority of situations it will result in hook straightening and no loss of line.
2. One of the most important things regarding the rig you use is to know (or at least have a good idea) where is the weakest point and where it will break.
3. A very good, simple and effective way to test your rigs/leaders/knots is to use a before mentioned bucket. Procedure follows:

- get yourself a big bucket

- find a way to attach tested piece to something really solid in a place where water spill will not damage the carpet or get into some electrical installation

- hang the empty bucket on the rig (if the rig does not break at this point you are half way there ;))

- ensure that your feet (kids/dogs/other valuables) are not under the bucket

- use a small 1L container to fill the big bucket adding 1L every time (remember or note every container added).

- when the rig breaks just check how many litres of water have you added and this will give you the rig strength in kg

- clean the mess

All best done in conditions above freezing.
;D

[bidkev]

Brilliant replies szopen.

Don't think we'll have any worries regarding above freezing conditions though ;D

chgeers

kev