marlin damage

[tunaman]

I know a bloke who says he cuts the beaks off with a hacksaw and keeps it for a trophy! I got into a heated arguement with this bloke,
and he says they swim away with no problems at all.
Is this man killing these fish, and has anybody caught one without a
beak. Should this guy be reported for cruelty.



signed
tunaman :o

[straddie]

Heya Tunaman

If the guy isn't just full of P&W and winding you up then I think you will find the marlin will die a slow death from starvation or infection. Marlin aren't my thing but I believe they use the bill to stun prey before swallowing it. Doesn't sound much different from finning sharks to me except that they get to swim away rather than just drown.

You could try reporting him, I just don't know how serious authorities will take it or if they could do anything without supporting evidence.

[tunaman]

I will just let it go .Its my argument with him.And I should not have posted it.






signed tunaman :(

[Pointyfish]

Tunaman

I've caught a number of sailfish with broken off bills that still look healthy. I don't believe myself that billfish stun their prey with thier bill before swollowing it. Form the marlin I have seen hit pushers they generally just grab their prey.

I think alot of misconception comes from anglers watch a billfish coming up to swollow a bait and seeing its bill out of the water swiping side to side. If you watch carefully their bill is actually above the bait and their actually trying to swallow the bait with their mouth.

The swiping action comes from the billfish using its hole body to swim. Dr Peperell did a write up on this awhile ago in Bluewater.

As for the cutting off of bills I believe that straddie could likely be correct about fish dying of infection. I think you should replace the pineapple with the largest bill in his collection and see how much he likes it.

[tunaman]

LOL well said,and I dont think they hit the bait with the bill. I dont think
anyone knows the bills true purpose. Trophy hunting in this fashion
is cruel. but if the bill is cut off at the face of the fish it would surely
die?Idont know about that?I have seen a picture of a black marlin
with such a wound and it healed over nicely.



signed tnuaman :D

[BenDover]

A beak for a beak i say!!! ;D ;D ;D And i dont mean the 1 on his face... Imagine that as a trophy on marlins wall. I would have thought the bill was just for short bursts of high speed stability and maybe steering?

[thesimmos]

Tunaman,

I understand why you got in a heated arguement, I think any reasonable person would also.

It is good that you have thought about reporting him. If you do thats great, if you dont while it is not something I would hope someone would let go and ignore at least you know what he is doing is not right.

It is just disappointing to say the least that someone would do such a thing.

Humans eh?

Simmo

[tunaman]

Thesimmos that picture is a howler. Every time I look at it, I nearly
fall off my chair laughing my head off.COOL.
And as for the butcher, I will give it some thought.




signed tunaman :D

[Smithy]

They are most probably used for streamling, much like the points of the nose cones of jet fighters.

[jeffo]

i would have knoccked this bloke flat on his arse and walked away....no need for an argument....then maybe put a few bits and pieces in his fuel tank and a few holes in the bottom of his boat.

[tunaman]

Jeffo! On the night, it came close to a bit of biff, and putting holes and a
fuel tank full of sugar sounds good , but that wont teach the di-khead
anything.I will have to think of another way to tell him that this sort of
trophy hunting is NOT ON !





signed
tunaman

[seabug]

Hi Tunaman,

Hope you can sort the mongrel out.
Even if it takes a phone call

In Vic. they jail people for cruelty to dogs .


What's different to cutting fins off sharks..

Hope the Greenies do not get hold of this, they would have a field day.
And probably call for banning of marlin fishing

Regards
Seabug

[tunaman]

A ban on marlin fishing, NOWAY! I am as passionate about the enviroment as the next guy, but I know for a fact alot of beak fisherman tag and release and do the right thing. This one individual is not going to put a stop to that. If he doesnt pull up I will dob him in.


signed
tunaman

[F1SH_BOY]

does any one have a pic of a marilin with its beak removed?

[tunaman]

I just got off the phone to our friend ::) And the the first thing he said
was , are you calling to apologize! he allmost lit the fuse again.
I said go to aus fishing chat there is something you might find interesting
about marlin damage. after a chating for a while, we moved on.
He is not a bad bloke, he,s just a arrogant ######.

More money than brains.

And when you read this di-khead, I hope you wake up to your self!

signed tunaman >:(

[tunaman]

Sorry to the people of aus chat. I said in the beginning I should not
have posted it, This was the only way he might get the message without
dobbing him in.
:-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

[the_real_fishcrazy]

Your 'mate' sounds like an arrogant idiot. He clearly has no idea what tag and release is all about. I'd be pretty surprised if this blokes ever seen a marlin. Sounds like someone having a stir to me, its too stupid to be anything else.

Attached a picture of a marlin with a broken bill. The fish had been caught previously, it threw an old hook with 3ft of trace attached during the fight. I assume the bill damage occured at the same time.

http://fishcrazy.sgl.org.au/misc/brokenbill.jpg

[seabug]

"The term billfish encompasses two closely related families, the Istiophoridae: sailfish, spearfish, and marlins and the Xiphiidae, the swordfish. The term billfish is usually reserved for the istiophorids and call the only member of the family Xiphiidae, a swordfish. Both families of fish have members whose upper jaw is extremely elongated and narrow. These are all fast-swimming, aggressive fish in the open ocean with a tall dorsal fin and lunate (quarter moon shaped) tail. They have a unique circulatory system that keeps the warmth generated by their active swimming retained in the muscles. This makes their muscles slightly warmer than the surrounding water and gives them an advantage over the slower-moving, completely cold-blooded fishes. Most are tropical and subtropical in distribution but are often caught in temperate waters, especially in summer months.

They are among the oceans fastest swimmers. Sailfish have been clocked at a minimum of 70 MPH for short bursts and probably cruise at 20 to 30 MPH. The long bill is thought to be a cutwater which aids these fish in very fast swimming. It is also used to decimate schools of fish by thrashing it back and forth horizontally through the water and is thought to be used in "battles" with other bill fish. The lunate tail and narrow, keeled peduncle (area just before the tail) are also adaptations for fast swimming. Even the dorsal and pelvic fins of the sailfish fit into neat grooves on the body to prevent any unwanted drag. Although marlin may be somewhat slower than sailfish, and swordfish slower yet, "slower" in this case is still close to 40-50 MPH."

From, http://darter.ocps.net/classroom/klenk/Fish.htm

Seems the bill is a much needed part of a marlin

If this chap is cutting bills off with a hacksaw them mongrel is too nice a word >:( >:( >:( >:(

Regards
Seabug

[Lazybugger]

I can't recall what channel I saw the program on a few years back but I do recall seeing footage of a marlin using its bill to attack a bait ball. The beak was swung side to side at it swam through the ball. The marlin then turned around and picked up the dead and injured bait. In that situation you could see where the bill is more useful than a single set bait.

Evolution put the beak on there for a purpose. The guy is kidding himself to believe that you can remove something which is so specific to a species that evolution hasn't already determined provides that species a competitive advantage. Perhaps this guy is a God and has the right, but I think we can all agree, he is A god of di**heads.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers

[seabug]

"Sorry to the people of aus chat. I said in the beginning I should not
have posted it, This was the only way he might get the message without
dobbing him in."

Hi Tunaman

Apologies are not needed.
You are the one trying to do the right thing.
But I would hope that this was the last chance he gets to change his ways.

If he does'nt then RSPCA would clean him up.

Regards
Seabug

[djmac]

the documentary "the blue planet" shows a bait ball and a few stripes using their bill.

its a pretty awesome doco

[tunaman]

I was not going to say anymore, but I have been in this blokes house,
and he is bounty hunter. The frist thing you will see is , all the heads
of pigs, goats, foxies and gamefish, and wait untill he shows you his
gun collection. I used to be a shooter my self and gave it away 15years ago, and he gets a pat on the back for killing feral pests and says he
doesnt do the marlin thing anymore, I still dont beleve him totally.
He reminds me of the great white bounty hunter of southafrica,s past.
But I guest some of us old school blokes have the hardest times of getting with the new world.
and he is a mate!


signed tunaman

[Pointyfish]

I own a copy of 'Blue Planet' and the stripes arent using their bills to 'whack' bait. There are a number of dvds out now days that show billfish feeding under water such as Wanganella Banks dvd and a number of the inside sportfishing series and none of these show any evidence of billfish clubing bait.

[tunaman]

Pointyfish!
In all my time I have not seen a #beakie slam the bait with its beak.
I started with land based gamefishing back in 1982, and worked my way up just like a lot of people. Down the southcoast you have to crall befour you can walk! . And down the tubies or three graves or crocidilheads or beecroff,
or what about THE EVE,ES!
All pasted aside, I have cut my teeth on gamefishing a long time ago,
hooked three black marlin down there on the rocks and landed not one!
But to send out A big cow and young on a 14/0 gamehook with 1500
dollars worth of game gear and to hang on to one of these great beasts
is something else.
But knowone has shown me anything diffrent.
please come forward?



sign tunaman

[tunaman]

And let us not forget the subject! What is the beak for!?







signed tunaman

[Pointyfish]

Its for holding onto whilest removing your hooks!

[tunaman]

What the f--k are you talking about ?
We are talking about cutting the beaks of marlin. are we???????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????????
Yes I have held on to some good beaks in my time , allmost bean stabbed throught the chest by at least one, but to all of us that know
marlin can be dangerous, there is not need to be a trophy hunter.



signed tunaman

[Pointyfish]

Save your anger for your hacksaw mate.

[tunaman]

Save your anger on some spelling , my hacksaw mate has seen this!
and he is getting some sh-t over this.
P/S its a small world.





signed tunaman

[tunaman]

I think the point has been made
Now I will drink to all, and fall down!................YEs

[docroger]

We have seen a 100KG black using his bill to subdue a 10kg yellowfin 3-4 metres below our boat. The yellowfin was attached to our lure(5" Mackbait). When we brought the yellowfin aboard, both sides of him where ripped to shreds. We then put a skirted lure on another rod to which the marlin latched on to and subsequently was landed tagged and released. Very spectacular to see.

[Az]

the documentary "the blue planet" shows a bait ball and a few stripes using their bill.

its a pretty awesome doco

I've seen this aswell, and you do see them use their bill and come back to pick up the scraps

[tunaman]

Maybe its multi purpose!Nature has to put it there for something.
Maybe its for mating purposes as well? I will go down to the library
and have a look for the blue plant . I think I have seen it before,
but not sure.
Spoken by David Attenbrough. Hope I spelt his name right.



signed tunaman

[the_real_fishcrazy]

Despite popular belief marlin don't use their bill as a club. Basically any clubbing of fish or lures is incidental as the fish swims.
Marlin swim with their whole body...to move foward their bill has to sway from side to side, hence the swiping motion you may sometimes see as a marlin swims through a baitball or chases a lure. If you had a massive nose don't you think you'd bump your food with it while trying to eat?
All the footage I have seen in blue planet, the Wanganellas DVD and Blue Marlin of Ghana is pretty consistant with this. The closest thing I have seen to a marlin using its bill to feed is in blue planet where a marlin uses its bill to guide a half dead pilly into its mouth.
Docroger, you noted that the litte fin that got eaten by that black had been chewed up on both sides. Why? Because the marlin had the fin its mouth, hence the marks on BOTH sides of the fish.
Its easy to see how an aggressive strike can look like a bill whack but my experience is that they just want a mouthful of food as fast as possible. If they were chasing a school of fish it would be a pain to club fish, turn around and eat it, its far more practical to eat on the run.

[Grand_Marlin]

we had a striped marlin follow and then deliberately whack 3 lures in the spread - 1 after the other...

It was following the lures and was swimming dead straight in appearance, all lit up... swimming in what i would describe as a quivering motion
it would speed up and slow down as we sped up and slowed the boat ... it must have followed each lure for 15 seconds or more doing this.

after it was sick of following each lure, it just whacked it and knocked it flying. one lure on the long corner flew out over the line on the long rigger

It then turned and took the big lure off the short rigger.

I couldnt say it whacked the lures in a feeding state of mind, it seemed to be doing it as a taunt to the lure, just to say "not good enough for me .... WHACK"

Cheers

Pete

[tunaman]

Maybe strippies are the only ones that do?







signed tunaman :)

[the_real_fishcrazy]

Nope. The leader swatting people talk about can be drastically reduced or even completely stopped by improving lure presentation: short light leaders, good positioning of lures, good trolling direction.

[Smithy]

What I have heard and I don't know if this is factual, is that Stripies with the geometry of their heads can't actually see their prey for a split second with their mouths open hence the windscreen wipering. They are looking at the prey from the one side or the other and feeling for it to hit their mouths so they can then swallow it, not watching it go straight in like most other fish.

[tunaman]

I think in some cases, like the one on blue planet,small bait fish, at one
at a time for a big marlin would be pointless,and the strippies are useing their bills to knock them out. I beleve marlin are smart big fish, and presentation is everything, and if I was a marlin, I would use my
bill to check out something that wasnt swimming right. Just like us , we
pick things up and smell them before we eat it.So I beleve its a very usefull tool, in some cases.I saw a movie years ago called stallion of
the sea, and thats what got me hooked,and loved marlin ever since.


signedtunaman :)

[whykickacatalong]

G'day Tunaman. I am a RSPCA Inspector so was interested in this post. Seeming that you want to get the message through to this fella I thought I would post this info. I assume you are in QLD but they will have relivant legislation up there similar to this. If he is in NSW, feel free to contact me via PM and I will go and see him myself. I am certainly not a 'hug the animals' type of person but, as are most here I believe, am a person that believes in treating animals with respect. If they are to be killed, then do it clean and if to be released, do so in as quick and unstressful manner as possable.

The following comes from POCTA (Prevention Of Cruelty To Animals Act)

A fish falls into the catagory of animal.

Definitions
(1) In this Act, except in so far as the context or subject-matter otherwise indicates or requires:
animal means:
(a) a member of a vertebrate species including any:
(i) amphibian, or
(ii) bird, or
(iii) fish, or
(iv) mammal (other than a human being), or
(v) reptile, or
(b) a crustacean but only when at a building or place (such as a restaurant) where food is prepared or offered for consumption by retail sale in the building or place.

And by cutting off the bill he could be charged with a cruelty offence, which carries a fine of up to $5500 and/or 6mths jail and if the animal was shown to have died then he can face up to $22,000 fine and/or 2 years jail.

Part 2 Offences
5 Cruelty to animals
(1) A person shall not commit an act of cruelty upon an animal.
(2) A person in charge of an animal shall not authorise the commission of an act of cruelty upon the animal.
(3) A person in charge of an animal shall not fail at any time:
(a) to exercise reasonable care, control or supervision of an animal to prevent the commission of an act of cruelty upon the animal,
(b) where pain is being inflicted upon the animal, to take such reasonable steps as are necessary to alleviate the pain, or
(c) where it is necessary for the animal to be provided with veterinary treatment, whether or not over a period of time, to provide it with that treatment.
Maximum penalty: 250 penalty units in the case of a corporation and 50 penalty units or imprisonment for 6 months, or both, in the case of an individual.
6 Aggravated cruelty to animals
(1) A person shall not commit an act of aggravated cruelty upon an animal.
Maximum penalty: 1,000 penalty units in the case of a corporation and 200 penalty units or imprisonment for 2 years, or both, in the case of an individual.
(2) In any proceedings for an offence against subsection (1), the court before which the proceedings are being taken may:
(a) where it is not satisfied that the person accused of the offence is guilty of the offence, and
(b) where it is satisfied that that person is guilty of an offence against section 5 (1),
convict that person of an offence against section 5 (1).



If people want to shoot animals, spearfish, fish or likewise then thats fine, but anyone that makes a choice to inflict uneeded pain apon an animal for there own amusement really needs to take a look at themselves.

[tunaman]

Whykickacatalong thanks mate!
That was better than I hoped for.good one. And if I hear that he hasnt
changed his ways, you will be the first to know, but I think this post should do the trick.

thank you for your help.



signed tunaman :)

[whykickacatalong]

No problem. Hope that will show him the error of his ways.