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saundy
03-04-2002, 05:27 AM
A NEW GROUP OF KEEN FISHOS HAVE GOT TOGETHER, AND FORMED AGROUP TO STOCK BARRA INTO THE TIN CAN BAY AREA. GREAT IDEA AND COULD BE A WINNER, IF THE AREA IS DECLARED A REC ONLY FISHING AREA AS THE RECECENT PETITION HAS REQUESTED. I DOUBT VERY MUCH IF A LOT OF REC FISHERS WILL PAY TO ENHANCE THE STOCK WHERE THE PROS CAN HARVEST IT. OR AM I JUST BEING PARANOID? http://www.ausfish.com.au/chat/images/smilies/cwm16.gif ??? ???

Fitzy
03-04-2002, 06:05 AM
Hi Saundy,
You might have a job in front of you getting permission to do that.
Some bright spark drew a line on the map at Maryborough & decided that no barra go south of here. QFS also seem reluctant to allow stocking of wild waters with fish these days. A recent application to stock some water around Tiaro (from memory) with barra was rejected.
I can give you some tips on how to go about things if you'd like. Send me a private message if you want some tips.

Cheers,

Fitzy..

Simon
03-04-2002, 01:00 PM
Would be great if it gets up off the ground.

If you get stuck try this http://www.ausfish.com.au/chat/images/smilies/cwm40.gif
Its a different line of thought that isn't as silly as it first sounds.
Get the pros involved from the beginning, http://www.ausfish.com.au/chat/images/smilies/cwm24.gif there are so many of them in that area they could use another fish to harvest. they won't catch all of them and they (the commercial sector) have the bucks to get the numbers stocked into what would be a viable industry (for them to begin with). As a result many years down the track due to its proximity to SEQ etc. huge numbers of people come to Tin Can, Rainbow and the Great Sandy Strait for that matter to fish, thus causing a big boom to the areas economy and employment. Of course the area as is happening already shall eventually become over harvested and the booming economy based purely by this time on the rec fisher and associated activities is under threat so you lobby all the local businesses etc. to have the commercial fishing heavily restricted to operate only in certain areas using restricted methods and the whole thing moves from strengh to strength.

Sorry got a bit carried away but it was a lovely dream, for me anyway, but it could work couldn't it ?

Cheers

Simon http://www.ausfish.com.au/chat/images/smilies/cwm9.gif

saundy
04-04-2002, 06:05 AM
Sorry about that. I must have given the wrong impression with my message. I do NOT support this stocking, purely on the fact that I resent fund raising and paying to supplement a pros income. They say they have it organised and it is going to happen. It is suported by Cooloola Shire Council [ who did not support the ROFA for the Straits] and the Rainbow Beach Tackle shop owner is the secretary[he would not support the Recreational Only Fishing Only proposition either] As for the pros funding anything, there would be more chance of me dating Elle than that ever happening. http://www.ausfish.com.au/chat/images/smilies/cwm16.gif

Vern_Veitch
04-04-2002, 03:52 PM
Ever heard of cane toads? Barra can be just as bad if stocked in the wrong catchment. DPI have a policy of not stocking fish that are not native to a catchment for a very good reason - it can destroy the native fishery.
If we get to the stage that our fisheries are so badly managed that we have to stock open healthy catchments then we have a bit to worry about.
I have no concerns with stocking impoundments but that is a put and take fishery. Stocking will never replace the productivity of a healthy system and if it is an open system, we could be introducing a predator that is not wanted or a disease that might devestate the fishery.
Let's keep a bit of balance in this stocking issue.
Vern

lordy
05-04-2002, 10:29 AM
Ever heard of cane toads? Barra can be just as bad if stocked in the wrong catchment. DPI have a policy of not stocking fish that are not native to a catchment for a very good reason - it can destroy the native fishery.
If we get to the stage that our fisheries are so badly managed that we have to stock open healthy catchments then we have a bit to worry about.
I have no concerns with stocking impoundments but that is a put and take fishery. Stocking will never replace the productivity of a healthy system and if it is an open system, we could be introducing a predator that is not wanted or a disease that might devestate the fishery.
Let's keep a bit of balance in this stocking issue.
Vern

Fisheries seem to have one-eyed stocking protocols. They are quite happy to sock fish into areas they never were when it suits them, then turn around object to other stockings in identical situations. Jacks in NQ dams are OK, but Jacks in SEQ dams aren't? Silver perch & yellow belly & murray & mary cod getting transplanted all over coastal SEQ? Silver perch stocked in to the Bremer river?

Jack_Lives_Here
05-04-2002, 12:36 PM
Yeh I gotta agree with you there Vern. If the species doesn't exist naturally then there is reason for it - It's outside it's tolerances.
I know I wouldn't be buying my tackle from that fella - he must have a gold mine elsewhere that he relies on his income from. ;D ;D

All the best
Dave

Fitzy
05-04-2002, 12:51 PM
This is getting right off the original topic but here goes anyway.
[hr]
You're dead right Lordy.
There's been mountains of translocations in Qld both before & after this almight "Translocation Policy" came into affect.
Let's look at some examples:
-Saratoga (southern)
-Sooty Grunter
-Bass
-Yellowbelly (Murray/Darling strain)
-Yellowbelly (Fitzroy strain)
-Silver Perch
-Sleepy Cod
-Murray cod
-Mary River Cod
-Barramundi
-Spangled Perch
-Lungfish
-Barcoo Grunter


Almost every popular freshwater species of fish in Qld has been translocated both before & after this "all powerful Translocation Policy".
It's selective application takes credability away from those that support & endorse it. I personally don't support it OR endorse it in its current form.
If we were to start the whole stocking movement from scratch now, you would find it IMPOSSIBLE to stock any fish, anywhere.
In impoundment situations where we previously had no viable recreational fisheries, we have created them in a put, grow & take situation. There is a significant social & ecconomic value attached to these fisheries as well as potential environmental benefits from the stocking of native fish in once barren lakes.

Are we to let Tilapia & Carp take over our waterways while our govt spends a measley $50 000 on noxious fish in Qld while Fire Ants get $123 MILLION? >:(
We have the power to take the battle to these aquatic invaders in the form of rec fishing & the stocking of predator fish species (which have a significant value in themselves) to
eat the pests. Why not use that power & show the bean counters with a bad attitude to angling a thing or two on how its done?

I'm not for a monent advocating the stocking of every fish far and wide. But a realistic approach is needed. To say YES to all of the above mentioned translocations & then say no for no good reason is rather questionable.

We also need to ask ourselves; is this as good as it gets? ???

I think not.......

Vern_Veitch
05-04-2002, 05:03 PM
Barra are not the answer to tilapia or any other noxious fish. We have more tilapia in Townsville and Cairns than you can poke a stick at and barra live happily beside them without putting a dent in the population. I'll stick with my previous comments - if we have to stock an open system we have either stuffed the habitat which will probably end up killing most of the stocked fish or we have got our fishery management horribly wrong.
One healthy barra can throw millions of eggs with about 1 to 2% survival. If they were meant to be there and able to thrive in that environment, they would. Barra might well eat out the bass population if stocked into and area they are not native to but bass are. I wonder whether anyone would be too happy about that?
An open water stocking of the Maroochy River proved to be an economic waste of money even after a large fish kill.
Stocking is great in impoundments but let's not keep on making the same mistakes of the past simply because we did it in the past.
A wise man learns from the mistakes of others,
a smart man learns from his own mistakes,
what do they call someone who doesn't learn?
Vern

Fitzy
05-04-2002, 06:31 PM
:D
Hi Vern,
I think the same as you. I'm not keen for any stocking of fish into breeding population (river situation). This should be used only as a last resort to save a species.
The thrust of where I was going I guess, is Recretional Freshwater Fisheries & in particular the barra in Big W debate. It's a manmade waterway & based upon info from fisheries persons, a large percentage of barra going thru the flood gates (in a flood situation which happens on average 1 in 7 years) would be killed. And the remainder have zero chance of breeding because they cannot breed (apparently too cold) in the Brisbane system. There's also historical evidence that barra were once found in that system & a bit further south of there as well. There's no Junglies in that system either, yet everyone takes it as being read that they are an endemic species. I even heard one "expert" tell me that Lungfish are native to the Brisso system. What a croc of .......

Again I ask; "is this as good as it gets?" If we've reached the pinnacle of what we can do with our stocked waterways, then my work is done.
Responsible Fishieres development with performance indicators in place is what I'm on about. If theres a problem with this scenario, fine, stop stocking them & they're gone in short order.

Again I agree with you cliche about leaning, I got a book full of em here. We'll never learn if we don't try however. The defeatist attitude from a small, yet influential minority is rather negative. These "glass is half empty" folks are only too eager to clamber for the precautionary principle because knowlege is lacking. Well what the hell is our research dollars going on? I'll tell ya, the commercial sector. We've got Hutcho trying to work on Big Eyes & Junglies yet he has to go cap in hand to every other committee to get some measley scraps after the hounds have had their fill. I bet if there was a commercial buck on the line the money'd be a rollin' in.
A kick up the Rs is needed. (not refering to you Vern)

To this end the support of various representative bodies would be helpful & appreciated. If not, then the risk is run of further alienation with constituents. Do we not do what we do as a representative of the anglers? Or are we here to TELL them what they want & need?


Cheers,

Fitzy..
[hr]

There's none so blind as those who won't open their eyes.

lordy
06-04-2002, 11:01 AM
Fitzy, fish stocking representatives should be agruing for ANY improvement in angling in an area. Are barra native to the Tinaroo area of the Atherton Tablelands, are jacks? There is an opportunity to improve angling in this area with the exploitation of Wivenhoe dam through its ability to safely take these fish. I can't agree more with Vern when it comes to keeping a river or natural waterway free of introduced species where its is healthy and breeding, if that stocking threatens those populations.

But Wivenhoe has some advantages:

1. its an impoundment where nothing but gar, spanglies, tilapia, catfish and banded grunter seem to breed successfull. Not a lot of endemic natives in that lot.

2. Fish like Tarpon, Jack, (JP possibly extinct), and trevally etc are endemic to the lower river system, so escapees won't be a problem. Barra possibly existed there at some time.

3. The proposed species need salt water to breed so they are prefectly safe to stock as they can NOT become pest species. If the did they would head to the salt, where they would meet others of the species.

4. Most of the fish in the Brisbane river below the dam are stocked. Yellow and silvers aren't even endemic natives! Catfish are in plaque proportions. There isn't a resident endemic population of breeding fish (Mt Crosby weir) to disturb even if they could be disturbed. Only the bass are native to that section. Most of these bass are escapees from Wivenhoe or the result of stockings. Its debately if any of the orginal Bris Rvr bass gene pool is intact anyway.

In essense its a clean slate. Lots of the proposed species already have a place in the system. Only Barra are imports, and an import that can't cause harm anything is perfectly acceptable to me.

Vern_Veitch
06-04-2002, 03:11 PM
My concerns relate to stocking open healthy systems such as Tin Can Bay - the original discussion item.
I see no problem in stocking Wivenhoe or any other artificial waterway so long as the risk of escapees is next to zero. When we create an artificial environment, I see no harm in experimenting within identified and agreed parameters.
Seems to me we are all saying the same thing.
Vern

saundy
07-04-2002, 06:38 AM
Hi Guys,
When I first made contact with these people talking about stocking the Barra, I sent them a copy of the report on the stocking experiment in the Maroochy River. They were undeterd. There is a small popolation of Barra in a couple of spots. Luckily not everyone knows about them and those that do practice catch and release. They are getting a bit educated now and a lot harder to catch. I was told by a pro{a good one who is genuinly interested in sustainable fishery] that the barra were hatchery fish that were released illegaly.
I agree with you Vern if the habitat was good enough we should not have to put fish in any open/wild environment. http://www.ausfish.com.au/chat/images/smilies/cwm16.gif