Ethanol and Outboards

[Kerry]

During this trial phase (starting 28th August, 2002) you will be able to purchase BP Unleaded with ethanol from the following sites:

Woody Point: BP Boulevarde - Cnr Donald St and Hornibrook Esp.
Loganholme: BP Shop Loganholme - 4080/4120 Pacific Highway
Springwood: BP Express Springwood - 3388 Pacific Hwy
Toowong: BP Toowong - Cnr Sherwood Rd and Jephson Rd
Aspley: BP Express Aspley - 1316 Gympie Road
Hamilton: BP Express Hamilton - 126 Kingsford Smith Drive



I suppose if anybody fills their boat up at the above stations then maybe ask the question about suitability/awareness for marine use, it's your call.

From BP Australia FAQ's on ethanol



Who cannot use BP Unleaded with ethanol?

Because of the water issues outlined in the above question, the following should not use this product;
· Ultralight aircraft and general aviation aircraft
· Marine craft (including outboard motors)
· Some motorcycles with fiberglass fuel tanks (see manufacturer)


And on top of that the Qld government want a "mandatory" 10% in ALL fuel, whose kidding who :o

Cheers, Kerry.

[MickSA]

G'day Kerry,

Been around here for a while by the look of it ;D

Yeah whats the thinking behind intoducing ethanol into the fuel anyway, cost saving excercise by the oil companies ???

[mick]

strait ethanol would be good

one for you
one for me
one for you
one for me

i would'nt get out of the gas station :P
but seriosly it sounds like they are trying to APPEAR to be cutting greenhouse emissions. 10% would be like painting over rust but would still impress the green voters.
in america it is legal to distil ethanol for use as fuel

[whiteman]

Ethanol is not taxed and it has political clout to help the poor starving sugar cane farmers. And it is supposed to burn cleaner. It also reduces power output.

If boaties start using it because the warning isn't adequate AND it causes problems, expect a major class action against BP.

[clutter]

Kerry,
Thanks for that information. I was aware that they were starting to introduce it in fuel but never once heard about the warnings about not using it in outboards etc. Pity the powers that be don't inform all on all the facts. Typical though.
Clutter

[Kerry]

Micksa, fancy finding you here ;D, let me guess ;)

Cost savings ??? umm not sure about that one but I did see somewhere that this blend would be more expensive but since it was "supposed" to be green then the expectation was that people would only be too happy to pay more than normal fuel :o.

That's one of the problem with the powers to be, they never let the facts get in the way of politics.

How long does anybody expect this stuff to be excise free ;D, what the government take a pay cut ;D

Cheers, Kerry.

[MickSA]

Yes well fancy that hey, was just getting a little bored and decided to get the surfboard out again in search and quite frankly stumbled in here.

Good to hear from you again :P

[Finnie]

So why exactly can't ethanol-based fuel be used in marine outboards???

Cheers,
Finnie

[Harrya]

Hi The reason that Ethanol is a problem .I quote T V News Channel Seven If you have any water in your fueltank the Ethanol blend will separate . and you will have major problems End quote.
Also was told it would be cheaper as no excise on Ethanol.
But also heard the next day that the Government would be putting on a excise if Ethanol was used.
But can you believe what you hear from the media ? Maybe we should get some information from B.P. . And government !!
Happy days Harrya.

[Scottie]

Hello from Chicago where ethanol is used in gasoline as an oxygenator at a rate of 10%. It's the most commonly used oxygenator for gas in the midwestern U.S., where there is a tremendous amount of corn grown. Yep, good ol' grain alcohol. According to the owners manual for my Johnson outboard, it's ok to use gas that has ethanol as long as it isn't greater than 10%. I've been using it for 3 years, and it runs just fine.

Scottie

[Kerry]

Scottie, I believe that's one of the problems confronting outboard manufacturers in which outboards are made/tuned to meet individual countries specific specifications especially regarding fuel quality.

Some outboard manufacturers over here still get to import gasket made from material that would never be allowed into the U.S especially California.

The interesting think here is that the actual oil company who makes this stuff is the one who is not recommending the blend for outboards and that's a real worry.

Cheers, Kerry.

[Scottie]

Kerry, I wouldn't think that 10% ethanol would hurt a gasket, regardless of the material used. But then again, I'm not an engineer. I know that Ford, GM, and Chrysler offer flexible fuel engines in certain models here in the US. As a matter of fact, my Chrysler mini van with a 3.3 liter V-6 engine is a flexible fuel engine. It also happens to be the most popular mini van/engine combo in the US. A flexible fuel engine allows you to use up to 85% ethanol, which is commonly available at certain gas stations, and is called E-85. I stopped using it because the fuel mileage is horrible, and the engine is hard to start in hot weather when using it. The only reason it's offered is because of a big push from America's farmers. But considering the fact that it gives you lousy fuel mileage, at a price only slightly lower than gas, and the hot weather starting problems, it's not worth it. Also, my mechanic told me that the materials that come in contact with the E-85 fuel are different than other engines, but they are still more likely to degrade at a greater rate as compared to using gas. Alcohol must be really tough on gaskets and such. BTW, my little Johnson 2 stroke outboard is no longer available because the tree huggers finally convinced the Environmental Protection Agency that they are evil. Damn greenies!

Scottie

[fatman]

I sent an Email to BP Australia and got their resonse:
QUESTION

I am writing in regards to ethanol based fuels.
Having just outlayed a substantial amount of money for a boat, I read that 10% ethanol fuels are not suitable for marine applications.
Q. Will there be a fuel available for boats and marine engines ?
Q. What damage (if any) could result from using ethanol fuel in a modern outboard or marine engine ?
Q. What modifications (if any) would have to be made so that an outboard engine could use 10% ethanol fuels ?
RESPONSE

Thank you for your inquiry.

There is no reason for concern, 10% ethanol fuel is restricted to a trial at
6 BP service stations using regular unleaded fuel. As long as you purchase
non ethanol containing fuel you should not have a problem, BP premium
unleaded and BP ultimate do not have ethanol added and these products will
not have ethanol added in the future. It is expected at this stage that the
trial will be a total success and the introduction of 10% ethanol in regular
unleaded will be rolled out to all BP metro service stations in Queensland.
As long as you exceed the minimum RON requirements of the marine craft, you
can be assured your craft will run well. The reason for not using ethanol
fuels in Marine craft is mainly to do with the fact that most manufacturers
of marine craft use fiberglass fuel tanks, these tanks are prone to attack
by alcohol containing fuels. To find out if your craft has a fiberglass tank
refer to owners manual or contact the manufacturer of the craft. The damage
to the craft will be contained to the fuel tank

Hope this answers your questions. If you would like further information
please do not hesitate to contact the BP fuels and lubricants technical
helpline on free call 1800 033 558.

Best regards

Ani Galassi
Technical Services Advisor
BP Australia
cheers
FATMAN