EXPORT OF LIVE FISH

[angelena]

curious on others opinion of live fish export. I personally think that the other countries are getting the best quality fish and we're left with 2nd grade fish.(not that i buy fish from the shops any way) Also if were sending our breeding stock over there whats stopping them from putting a small percentage in ponds and breeding the fish them selves?

[Kerry]

They are getting the best quality fish as they are prepared to pay the top $$'s.

It's not that we are left with 2nd grade (as such) it's just that where the market is aligned.

Most (not all) fish shop type fish (fish and chips type) isn't even 2nd grade as it tends to be imported from overseas.

Cheers, Kerry.

[jaybee]

On a brighter note if we let sea cage farms in moreton bay, all the diseased fish (nutrients, antibiotics etc) they breed will go overseas, but then it will wreck the bay. I love sea mullet roe, you cant buy it here anymore, the fish are sexed on the beach and put into an appropriate esky, the yanks pay upwards of sixty a kilo for it, we can get the rejects, all broken and discoloured for around 38 a kilo, like my sister did from raptis last year and ended up very sick, wont say anymore.
cheers.
joe.

[stevedemon]

Hi Angelena
As and ex-Butcher you are right it is the same as the Quality of the meat here we only see the Second Grade in which most Quality Butchers sell as top grade meat the reason for this is that the oversea markets pays more but like anything that goes oversea's it is not the Farmer or the Grazier that ripes the rewards it is the middle man and the Government and so it is with the exporting of our natural resoucers

There is a saying
That man will not be happy till he kills the last fish;
Cuts down the last tree;
Kills the last Animal;
and destroys the Earth completely
then and only then will man realize that he can not eat the money that he has made by then it is to late

Cheers ;D ;D
Steve :P

[Scottie]

Steve, it sounds as if you're a bit of an alarmist. I heard that saying about 25 years ago, and there's still plenty of fish, animals, and trees. And here in the states the air and water keep getting cleaner thanks to the combination of regs and technology. Mother earth will be just fine, with or without us.

Scottie

[dazza]

Hi Scottie,
Mate I would have to disagree with you. I live on Cape York. Right at the top of the pointy bit of Australia. This is supposedly a pristine wilderness that is untouched. How wrong we are.
Let me give a few examples that I have observed.
The amount of rubbish that is washing up on our beaches is amazing. Apart from the bottles, tins, discarded nets etc we also have industrial waste. Tonnes of rubber which has had thongs stamped out of it, bundles of nylon bags, rusting 44 gal drums.
At the camping spots are dozens of 44 gal drums that tourists bring up with fuel in them and leave behind when empty.
Indigenous fishermen waiting for turltes to walk up the beach to nest, wait for the turtle to lay its eggs, grab the turtle and the eggs.
Mining that is taking place in Papua New Guinea is starting to affect the water quality in the Torres Strait
I could go on and on, the earth is not in good shape and we are slowly choking it to death
Cheers from paradise :'( :'(
Dazza

[Vern_Veitch]

I agree with Dazza. We have 400 reefs along our coast in a supposed world heritage area (the Great Barrier Reef) at high risk, many of them already dead.
Look at the oil spill in Spain.
Our seas in many areas are treated as giant rubbish dumps. Out of site, out of mind.
Technology and education has the potential to win this back and save some of these ecosystems but we are fighting against those who do not care and think money is more important.
Vern

[Scottie]

Guys, I'm not saying there aren't problems that need to be addressed, just that the earth will find a way to take care of itself even if we mess it up. As for all the crap that's happening in your neck of the woods (Cape York), it's time for you to go after the polluters and poachers. (It's interesting to note that the worst pollution in todays world tends to come from the third world, non-democratic nations, not the freedom loving capitalistic ones). And I'm certainly not suggesting Australia is one of those nations, but you have plenty of them to the north. While oil spills are an awful thing, the sea has a way of cleaning them up much faster than the scientific community ever thought possible. Remember the Exxon Valdez? The scientific community was amazed at how quickly the earth/sea dealt with it. Please don't get me wrong, I dislike garbage and excessive pollution as much as you. I also happen to think that it is a bit arrogant of people to think that humans can destroy the earth. Being the giant living organism that mother earth is, when she gets tired of us she'll kick our sorry a$$es right off this planet. Or at the very least, significantly reduce our numbers. Plague, volcanoes, earthquakes, ice, and just about anything else she can throw at us during a renewal process.That you can count on.
Vern, the money that is generated in the capitalist nations of the world is the same money that can help cure these problems through education, legislation, and science & technology. These of course, are my opinions only.

Cheers, Scottie

[banshee]

Hey Scottie,mate do you still believe in the tooth fairy too ?

[Scottie]

Hey Banshee, why don't you debate me instead of attack me with that tooth fairy crap. But for the record, yes, I do believe in the tooth fairy.

Scottie

[banshee]

"The earth will find a way to take take care of it self even if we mess it
up"....."While oil spills are an awful
thing,the sea has a way of cleaning them up much faster than the scientific community ever thought possible." Taken out of context?.....
I think not.Your first statement is pure drivel (Bullshit) it defies comment.I can however see merit in your second statement,should mother earth get all her feathered and furry
aquatic freinds to swim through it,she
can clean it up 1 kilo at a time.Mate
I'm sorry for taking the piss out of you
but your comments left me gobsmacked.Never mind though your in for a real treat.....santa is coming.

[Scottie]

Banshee, you're still attacking me. Why would my first statement defy comment? Can't get your mind 'round it? The earth cleaning itself up? It actually happens, pally. My bottom line is that humans can only do temporary damage to the earth. In the end; earth wins.
As for Santa, it means nothing to me, I'm a Jew. And as a Jew, I'm used to being attacked. Got more, pally?

Scottie

[banshee]

Your comments lack fact.You do not
even supply anecdotal evidence to back your pie in the sky claims.At best
your comments reveal a missinformed
view,at worst I see your comments as
foolish.I am afraid you have said nothing to convince me otherwise.I have nothing more to say on the mater.

[angelena]

sh## i just posted under my girlfriends name

yeah it sux how our best fish are sent over seas. i think if you want to eat fish you should have to catch it your self.
and im sorry guys but i have to agree with the yank. the earth is 46,000,000 (i think thats the right amount of zeros, 46 mil) years old and we are but 40,000yr old. thats 0.08%. you can rest asured that even if we cover the earth in a nuclear winter, it will be but a short hiccup for the planet. global warming (weather or not we are the cause) is not a new issue. it is not the planet that is in danger. it is its inhabidants (us). the earth will outlive us, guaranteed

mick

[banshee]

Mick,The earth is actualy a lot older than you claim.A look through Australian National University and other uni sites will show that it is an
excepted fact that life began on this
planet 3,800 million years ago, in what is known as the Archaen Period.
The cells occuring then are the same
as the cells that compose every living
being that inhabits the earth today,us included.So I put to you that we have infact evolved over this same period of time.Another undisputed fact,is that our sun will becom what is known as a red giant some time in the next 50 to 200 million years.With most of the solar
systems life spent the argument of
rejuvination is mute.The end can never justify the means.I know I said
I would shut up......sorry.

[jaybee]

Hi all
well carbon dating has been proven unsuccessful by a Christian scientist, the man buried some bones from a butcher and after 7 years took them to a reputable scientist for carbon dating, they came back as being 300,000 thousand years old. :-X after saying that i beleive the earth can rejuvenate, however it will not be as quick if man doesnt intervene to clean his mess up. Another question if we desended from apes, why then are there still apes around ???

[Vern_Veitch]

I've heard this story before about it does not matter if we keep on polluting because time will heal all.
My question is how long do you all intend to be around. Can you wait for a few thousand years for mother nature to fix it up. Does it really matter if we take the last fish a in a few milleniums they will be back?
It is pretty hard to take the last fish, but not real hard to destroy the last wetland in a catchment or pollute the last healthy creek. So we lose a few catchments, does it really matter?
It may not matter to some of you but it matters to me. I want to live a healthy and enjoyable life, and I want my children and their children to do the same.
And for all intents and purposes, the old Indian saying is spot on because that is how it will be as we know it.
Let's keep it in perspective and our inability to live for centuries is a part of that.
Vern

[banshee]

Jay Bee,I find the term christian scientist to be a contradiction of terms,a christian by there very being
believes that god created Adam,took
his rib, and created Eve.A scientist
dose not.The ape thing is best answered in Darwin's paper on genetic
selection.Given that I am wrong and
you are right,simplisticly speaking you should have absolutly no problem with me coming to your area and taking every fish I can kill,by what ever means possible.Am I right,if not why? Could it be that what we have
now is precious and should not be lost

[jaybee]

I agree on the last part given what we have now is precious and should not be lost, as for Christian scientists, Christians work every where, some are born again, was working in a field and give their lives to Jesus. but still carry on the work in Gods faith, that is why he did what he did. Remember this, going to church every Sunday does not make you a Christian no more then going to Mcdonalds every sunday for breakfast will make you a big mac.

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

... Could it be that what we have now is precious and should not be lost

we should really say "what we are PART OF is precious and WE would be lost without it"

even the converted still have a deep seated psychology we own the world -myself included. Hopefully the thinking is changing.

... and gentleman, it is a well understood protocol on chatboards that the first man to refer to a ficticous character or Hitler in a debate has lost said debate regardless of the quality of his/her arguement.

Lets keep it friendly & talk issues #;)

seeyainthesurf,
chris

[angelena]

BANSHEE. #not sure of the exact dates and times it was just a flash back from school, oh well i was just a few thousand mill out ;D. im all for saving what weve got because we depend on it for our survival. soon we will realise its not a matter of consevation and saving baby fur seals but it is life and death for our species (not the planet)

oops am still under missus's name

mick

[jaybee]

Chris you miss quoted me :-[ , they were not my words but banshees I was only agreeing with him. I accept your apology tho. :P Being a Christian I live on the planet as a part of it not an owner I am not materialistic, so you shouldnt assume. ;D and it is a friendly debate, i dont see anyone having a go at each other just friendly banter airing ones views and opions to which we are all entitled.
cheers
joe.

[jaybee]

Hey Angelena aka mick,,have you worked out what gender you are yet..mmmmm another debate ROFLMAO... ;D

[Steve_Ooi]

While some may believe that the earth will bounce back after #human interaction.
It’s much harder to convince the Dodo, Tasmanian Tiger, #and Passenger Pigeon this.

[jaybee]

hey steve i had a dodo but the wheel fell off :-[ :-[ :-[

[mick]

whats the one thing money cant buy?


a dinosuar (quote homer)

jaybee. it feels great to back in my own body again. if you need proof of my gender, i will sit on the scanner and email you the pics ;D ;D that should keep you warm on those long cold nights ay. lol

[jaybee]

Excuse me for not taking you up on your offer mick, but i think you'll understand, i can handle the long cold nights tyvm.

[banshee]

Chris,until I can sight said protocols
and rules I will not concede to having
violated them.As I did not use facts
or quotes from the tooth fairy or santa
thier introduction can only be viewed
as a tool used to bring on an unguarded responce.Jay bee's character was anecdotal and provided
he was not used in a closing statement(not open to rebuttal)is also
acceptable in the normal realms of
debate.As for the my quote your quote thing,I think Willy Shakespear
summed it up when he wrote "A rose by any other name is but a rose..."

P.S. I did not log of yesterday,dose that cause problems ?

[mick]

jaybee
please excuse my ignorance and fill me in, as to the meaning of ROFLMAO and TYVM.

[jaybee]

Okie mick
ROFLMAO= Rolling On Floor Laughing My Arse Off.

TYVM= Thank You Very Much.

cheers.

[Volvo]

http://www.ausfish.com.au/chat/images/smilies/cwm6.gifDid someone miss a turn somewhere along the drive here??, me thought the original question asked was "Should live Trout be exported??".
roflmao.
As for the planet or mother nature i think she will put a stop to us doin her to much harm before we get too far...Like yez said she's been around a lot longer.
Cheers

[kc]

I,m glad someone said it! I thought it was a debate about live trout exports too.

Here's a few figures. Before the live trout tarde the commercial catch of coral trout was steady for years at about 1400 tonnes and "we" could afford to buy the stuff at local fish shops and restaurants. Since the live trade started the catch rate and effort has increased dramatically and the catch last year (2001) was 2098 tonnes, the majority of which was exported. The 2002 figures have not yet been released but they are above 2001 figures.

If the live trout trade was abolished the domestic demand would stabilise catch rates back to around 1400 tonnes but this is not going to happen in a free market economy so we are stuck with the live trout trade.

There is some bright news. The QLd fisheries issued investment warning in (I believe 1998) about stopping future investment by the professional ranks in this fishery. This warning was largely ignored. There are currently 1200 commercial licenses endorsed to catch coral reef fin fish (trout) but this is now being reviewed (and they are seriuos) to reduce licenses back to those numbers which dervive the bulk of there income from the fishery (about 330) and all other license holders will be subject to recreational bags limits (in other words no point fishing for trout, particularly live trout).

The new 330 boat fleet will then have a quota of 1400 tonnes. It is probable that this 1400 tonnes will all be exported and trout will totally dissapear from the domestic market, along with WA crayfish, Abalone, southern bluefin tuna and the like which all feeds export markets which have already rooted there own fishery and now find it easier to buy ours.

The end result of all this means the live trout trade will continue but overall commecial catch rates have effectively been reduced by almost half. Recreational bag limits will be down from 10 to 8 (no problem) but no one will be able to buy coral trout in Australia....just means more people will have to take up fishin'
Based on these catch rates about 1 million less trout will be taken off the reef every year and that has got to be good news. The pro's are whining like broken diffs but they were warned about this twice. Australia is not the fish monger to the world and it is about time the pro lobby realised this. If they just fished for the domestic market catch rates would be reduced by supply and demand forces, prices would come down and we would not have to eat the imported fish farm crap that is served in most fish shops and restaurants these days.
Yes some people would lose jobs and personally I have no problem with compensation. The Government issued too many licenses let them pay the price to fix it..if it cost me another cent a litre on fuel I couldn't give a sh#@.

I for one absolutely applaud the government for having the balls to take on the pro lobby, with spotties and trout the 2 most notable successes already. The Labour party in Queensland is actually getting its head around our fisheries problems and doing something about it......and the National party is siding with the pro's. I think it will be a bloody long time before we see them back in power.

KC