Flathead bites and recognising the damn things...

[Render]

I was sitting on the banks of the Tweed river the other day, feeding squid to the fish and watching the world go by. Literally, as the Tweed is still full of most of the world's debris and mud. You see some interesting things in the flow, these days. Only last week, I had the blue bejaysus scared out of me when a floating log nudged my wading knees, doing a fine impression of a large croc. I barely had time to holler "Croikey, mate! Lookee here!", before executing the world's first human vertical takeoff and course change in mid-air. I felt a bit foolish when my vantage point from the top of a tree, on a hill, several miles away, revealed the 'croc' to be but a floating log, but I can look back on it and laugh now.

But I digress. I'm on the banks of the Tweed, as you'll recall. Along came a young lad with a bike, a spinning rod and a wee dog. He sat down beside me and began to pass the time of day. What a wonderful thing youth is. You never need a reason to plonk down and begin yaddering when you're 12 years of age. Days of gold, indeed. The kid had a small diving lure on the end of his rod and so I was a little suspicious of his motives. These agents of Howard and his nefarious Lure Tax are everywhere and you can't be too careful. But, he made no attempt to convince me of the merits of lure fishing, so I gradually began to trust him.

He asked me what I was after and how I was going about it. 10 minutes later, he stopped laughing enough to point out some of the errors of my angling ways.
"What a fine kid", I thought, as I kicked him off the pier and into the river.
"Floats well, too".

Nay, I jest, fine compatriots of the virtual waterways of the interweb. I actually ended up giving him a reel-full of 8lb line to replace the 25lb line he had on his rod. Some of his tips made a lot of sense and will no doubt help to catch a few finned fiends. However, there was one wee point he wasn't altogether clear enough on and I was wondering if any of you upstanding, noble pillars of the community might shed some light on them?

Put simply - how do you recognise a flathead bite?

Now, the lad told me to retrieve the bait slowly and feel for weight on the line. Sound advice, but let me be frank, gents. I'd have trouble distinguishing between a flathead's weight on the line and say... someone parking a bus on my foot. I'm slow that way. The kid never told me when to strike if you feel the pull. Quite often, the retrieve stops and the rod bends slightly. How do I know what's a snag and what's a lizard? And how long do I wait before trying a strike? I've stood there like a twat with a slightly bent rod for fully 5 minutes before.

And what do holes in the sand mean? There's a bank near me that's dotted with depressions in the sand. Am I right in thinking these are lizard bunkers?

Thanks for such sundry advice as you see fit to chuck a chap, gents! I'll e-mail a photo of $50 by way of reward to anyone who replies :)

Cheers,

R

[mackmauler]

Flathead hook themselves if you use lures ;D have you caught a stingray yet? that might be the divot taker ;)

[Render]

You're... one of them, Mack! :o

They're everywhere! Fleeee!

Nahhh, haven't caught a ray yet. Seen plenty under the bridge, though. There's one in particular that's made it his hobby to follow me and my attempts every time I hit the banks. I swear he looks at the baits I drop in front of him and marks them out of 10 for effort. Then he laughs and swims off.

That's very close to this beach I speak of, so they might well be ray-holes. Thing is, the beach is a very shallow sand flat that borders on a couple of gutters next to weed banks where schools of bait-fish play gaily. Isn't that supposed to be classic flathead territory?

Cheers,

R

[mackmauler]

Should be flatties there, you mustn't be holding your mouth right ;D squidgies in pink is what you need :P

[Render]

See... I was right... he is one of them! See how he subtly steers it around to sales pitches for Government-supporting lure sales??

Have any of you lot been fishing with him?? I bet he always hangs close to your ear and mutters stuff like "buy lurrreeess... luurreeeessss", whenever you're busy playing a fish you caught on good honest bait.

Yeah, well... I'm on to you and your subliminal shennanigans, Mackmauler, matey. And if you need further evidence - try this: 'Mackmauler' is a direct anagram of 'Men In Black', if you add a few letters and take some away. It's a conspiracy, I swear.

::)

So, Mack... you reckon pink squidgies? What about the ones that come with the video pack someone else was talking about here? The $21 Woolworths one. They're pink. Will they do?

And I get the same sort of 'is it a snag, is it a fish' type of thing happening when I give in to the propaganda and try squidgies. Any hints on that, bloke?

Cheers,

E

[Big_Kev]

Buy some soft plastics shaped like a little fish and some jig heads.
They come in packs of about 5 for the same price as one lure.
Flatthead just love the pink ones.
Try throwing them around the sand banks, the lizards will face up the currrent waiting for the small fish to swim past.
And yes I have been fishing with the mack, and he does know how to catch a feed.
He will also show you how to construct your own lures in order to help you outsmart abott and costello.
Happy fishing render. cheers Reel Hard. http://www.ausfish.com.au/chat/images/smilies/cwm2.gif http://www.ausfish.com.au/chat/images/smilies/cwm2.gif

[wombat45]

Try my way number 2\0 Bream hook strip of Chicken Breast and you will hook up for sure.
Hooking Wombat. ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D

[bugman]

Render,

If, like me, your scepticism is not dulled by the masses throwing good money at wrecking our Current Account Deficit on small rubber things, you can still catch good flathead on bait.

Couple of things needed small fish or fish shaped bait, an outgoing tide, long-sensitive rod, patience.

My favourites baits are FRESH whitebait, hardyheads, mullet fillets cut into long strips, or pillies cut in half on a diagnal. I rig the whitbait-hardyheads on a long shank hook through the eye and back down the body with a loop knot over the head. For the pilles and mullet strip I use two 4x0's or 3x0's ganged, depending on size. I have about 1 metre of trace to the smallest sinker I can use to keep the bait on the bottom. Somtimes I just squeeze a small splitshot on.

Technique is simple, cast up current and slowly bring the bait back to you using a move - stop technique. Best for this is having the rod out to your side and pulling back behind you then moving it forward and slowly winding in the slack. As you're moving the rod - fell for the slightest bump - that's what it is a bump. A snag will make the rod come to a halt but a flathead will actually feel like a small bite. (A 63 cm flatty I caught recently gave a bump that was smaller than the small whiting I was catching just before). After you feel a bump -Stop - count to 7 slowly - giving the flaty enough time to roll the bait around in its mouth and possibly swallow it. Then lift the rod smoothly and begin to wind - if he's on you'll know.

I really does take some time to destinguish the bump but the more you do it - the more you will - give it a go - and good to see someone is trying to keep the baitfishing tradition alive.

Bugman

[mackmauler]

Render, Bugmans method there is very similar to how you can use the soft rubber squidgies, Id bet they are the same ones that come with a video pack, however you shouldn't need any more coaching now ;D As for sizes, in the shallow area I fish the ones around 5cm long with a small jig weight work the best, cast around sand and you shouldn't get many false starts ;)

[Render]

Gentlemen,

You are princes among men, toffs & gents and all-round good eggs (as far as you Amphibians go, anway ;) )

Many thanks for the advice... that's what I wanted from the word go.

As promised, here's the $50:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3db38b3127cce88006f1d0e960000001610

Don't spend it all on the Howard Tax, will ya? ::)

BTW, to give you a Tuesday laugh, here's a pic of the lures I have in my box:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3db38b3127cce88006f128fa90000001610

The Squidgies are #3 Gary Glitters in 65mm size. The jighead is a 1/2 Starsky and Hutch squidgies one. The pink thingies are about 50mm and I bought them mainly for the jigheads. They were the same price for 5 fully rigged with as 4 plain old lead jigheads of the same size. Call me Mr Shonky ;)

The long eel things and the green double tail came with the tackle box I bought. Probably about as much use for catching fish as workboots are to an Aussie ;D

Cheers blokes

R

(Bugman: we stand many and strong, brother! Come the revolution, those bait & soap fearing plastic agents of the Howard Tax will be first against the wall! They'll probably turn and face it, but hey... old habits die hard ;D)

[Big_Kev]

They look like they will do just fine.
If you look hard you will see the tax stamp on the corner.
See he got you in the end.
And we have you guys to blame for inventing tax anyhow.
Cheers Kev

[predator]

hi...

I would have thrown a 3/0 long shank hook into the little
dog's back,with a trailing set of gangs along its tail and when it started to yelp and swimming in circles....you'd know the flathead are a biting, so give it a good yank........ :o :o

;D ;D ;D :'(

[Render]

Halle-bleedin'-lluejah!

And lo - throughout the land there was much rejoicing. The fatted calves were put to the block, schools were closed and the sheep in New Zealand were especially nervous.

Render finally catches something on a plastic! Praise de lawd and hide de silver!

Yep folks, using a cunning combination of the tips in this here very thread-ette and the pink thingies in the pic in this here very thread-ette that Kev said would do (cheers bloke), I managed to bank two small flathead. Small as in 'actually, squire, I think the lure's bigger than the fish'. But... they were honest to gawd flatties caught on honest to gawd plackies.

Does this mean the Arch-Sceptic is now a convert? Hmmm... not quite yet. Y'see, I caught a 40cm flathead from the selfsame spot using an ocky leg... good ol' fashioned bait. And, there were some suspicious looking bubbles round the spot where I caught the mini-flatties on the lure. Mackmauler... do you own a set of scuba gear?? ::)

Might have been three flatties on the lure, save for a bizzarre twist of fate. I cast the old lure out and something took it in a big fashion. A second later there was an almighty splash on the surface. Whatever I was reeling in felt a decent size, so naturally I assumed this might be the 50 cm legal flattie I need to allay my suspicions re the Howard tax. As I reeled in, there was a foot-long garfish wrapped round the line, halfway out. I can only assume my line must have got tangled up with him on the cast that the 100cm flathead took. No sooner had I seen this than he wriggled, the line went 'tinnnnngggg!!' and parted company with itself where the garfish was and vanished off into the wet stuff, tugged by the 150cm flathead on the other end. Bugger!!! How's that for freaky? Losing my first 200cm flathead to a garfish! It was 250cm, too!!!

Oh, and Predator... I am absolutely disgusted and horrified by your suggestion I insert hooks into an innocent dog and use it for bait. That's not even funny, mate.

How could you suggest using a poor dog in this way when everyone knows live kittens make the best bait ;) ;D :P

Nice, evil sense of humour there, mate... love it!

Cheers,

R

[Dominator]

Howard's got you. ;D ;D ;D

Cheers,

Dominator

[Big_Muddie]

Render,

You weren't a Goon understudy by chance? Your humour is remarkably similar to Neddy Seagoon et al. ;D

[landy1]

Hey Render,
now that youve mastered the art of plastics :-X
Youll have to start chasing flatties on fly ;D
cheers
Michael

[Big_Kev]

Hate to say I told you so.
Kev

[Render]

Render,

You weren't a Goon understudy by chance? #Your humour is remarkably similar to Neddy Seagoon et al. #;D



Eccles, I do not like those words what is writted on this bit of paper here!

Sapristi Knockoes! How did you guess?

Yes, it has to be said I am something of an afficiando of Messrs Milligan, Sellars, Secombe and Bentine. Also Monty Python and any of that ilk and brand of humour rings the Render bells. Fishing trips on the boat back in England had to be seen to be believed:

One of the lads falls in the water, cue-ing the time-honoured chorus of "He's fallen in the wa-ter!".

Out he climbs, dripping wet... "Gad, that water's taller than me"... "It's older, that's why, Neddie!". Ahhh, golden days you just want to punch in the teeth!

Actually, for you to compare my humble rantings with the strokes of pure genius that was Milligan and Sellars is quite possibly the biggest compliment I've ever been paid. Genuine thanks, Mudster!

By the way... how the heck did you know of an old-as-the-hills, British radio show?? That show must have finished nigh on 40 years ago and I wasn't aware it made it Down Here!

And now... Max Ellington!

Dom: Don't speak too soon, mate... I haven't heard from Mack yet about his Scuba gear!!

Landy: I'm far from mastering the art of plackies. Catching them whilst flying is a little advanced yet #::)

And Kev... there's a simple cure for hating to say 'I told you so' - don't say 'I told you so'! They were tiny flatties and I suspect my technique needs a lot of work, so early days still!

Oh, BTW... the Greeks and Phoenicians invented tax... we just invented your whole country #:P #;D #;)

Cheers you sarky mob!

R

[SteveCan]

Hi Render,

The goons play radio national at 5.00am most weekdays. (or it used to - haven't caught it in a while)

God Bless the Auntie BC.

Cheers
Steve.

[Big_Muddie]

Render,

The Goons, although gone, will never be forgotten by me - they will never be surpassed for original, wacky, insane humour. Like Steve said, they were on the ABC here - and just last week I got from my local library, a video of their 50th Anniversary show - pure genius!

I have been searching for their scripts for ages - even though they are just words, any of us who know and love them can hear their voices in our minds. I am also trying to revive some long pickled brain cells wherein is stored a long gone reference to a series of audio tapes of the (almost) complete works of the Goons. One day!

It wasn't hard to pick that you were potentially an afficionado of their works - stands out to another fan like the proverbial!

Have a good one!

[Render]

Steve and Muddie:

Thanks for that! Looks like the 5am Goon Shows have finished for now :-[

However, I found a couple of sites you'll like...

http://www.alphalink.com.au/~robertd/GoonShow.html

http://www.residents.com/Goons/

The first one is an Aussie fan site which has samples and MP3s of full shows! BTW, if you type 'goon show scripts' into Google, many hundreds of pages come up. Also, to my certain knowledge, the tapes of the scripts were all available on the BBC / EMI lable back in England just before I left about 4 months ago, so you might be able to find a good record shop could order them for you :)

And back to the fishies...

Well, I was sitting on the end of that jetty downstream of Boyds Bay Bridge. Don't know if you know the one... it's next to the fire station, just up the road from the Interstate Aggie Inspection place. The water was frustratingly clear and you could see huge shoals of bream swimming around. It was an interesting experience being able to see the fish. When I dropped bits of bait in, they'd swim warily round it and then one would dart in and grab it with the side of his mouth. Put a hook in the bait and it's a different story. Not one even came near it. Must be a lesson in hiding tackle there somewhere!

There were 4 or 5 really big bream prowling around, too. I mean huge. Naturally, they'd bolt at the slightest suggestion of fishing tackle, which is probably why they got so big in the first place. I had a go at casting a lure out and the results were interesting. I used those pink things above... as the lure came back into clearer water, I could see gangs of quite large bream following it with interest, yet not enough interest to have a bite. Probably me and my technique: I'd imagine an experienced breambo would know a few moves that would tempt them into a bite! I'm quite keen on hooking into a really big bream. If the fight you get from the little blokes is anything to go by, a biggun would be a real treat!

Cheers,

R

[Paul_C]

Render,

If you can see the Bream following your lure, stop winding. More often than not they will pick it up off the bottom, don't strike immediately if they do, give them a little line and then set the hook. I haven't put a bait in the water for around three years, and have fished lures exclusively in that time. I have probably caught more fish in the last 3 yrs than I did in the last 20 yrs. Don't give up on the plastics, they are HOT.

Regards
Paul Cade

[Render]

Hmmm... plackies are hot... I keep hearing that. I have to confess I caught a near-legal flattie on a Gazzer Glitter squidgie tonight at a spot just down from that jetty. Still no answer from Mackmauler about his scuba gear so I'm keeping an open mind ;)

It just seems a little frustrating when you spend ages casting and retreiving with nary a scooby as to whether you're making a dead drink flog horse water or not. At what point do you say "sod it" and reach for the bait or a hand grenade??

Paul, your tips about the bream are well taken, but I think these ones that hang around the jetty are attending a special school in bait avoidance. The large ones I speak of are the teachers, teaching the nippers how to recognise hooks and how to breath underwater whilst rolling around on their backs, bellylaughing.

There are literally thousands of fish of all species and sizes to be clearly seen around the jetty, and dozens of hopeful anglers wetting lines, but I have honestly yet to see a single fish taken from that jetty. I can go a hundred yards either side of it, lob in a bait and it's bitten to peices. Go to the jetty and you can wait in the middle of a massive school of fish without even a single picker bite for hours! Bloody fish!

Anyway, I will Percy Vere with the plackies... might get some of those BB Tomato core or Killer Tomato squidgies I hear so much about. Anyone got any recommendations? Also, what are these Mangrove Jacks I hear folk talking of in hushed tones??

Cheers all!

R

BTW, Wombat... I meant to say earlier that chook casaba is a great bait... I just find it gives up the ghost to pickers too easily :(

[Paul_C]

Render,

About a fortnight ago, I made a trip to the mouth of the Brisbane River, and in a couple of hours landed over 20 Bream, the successful plastic was a Slider 2" Crappie Grub in the Muscadine colour, rigged on a 1/16 oz jig head, mind you that was from my boat, but all were caught around jetty's, pontoons or rock walls. I intend having a little more fun with them this saturday. I forgot to mention that you really need to fish light, with a light drag. [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

Regards
Paul Cade

[mackmauler]

Render, no I don't have a scuba tank :o here is a picture of a "jack" its getting a bit cold for them now in the river, this one ate a manns 20, thats an artificial by the way ;)

[mackmauler]

Here is another "jack" showing a colour varience.

[Patto]

don't know about the tips - there secondary to the entertainment I got reading this post. best post i read :) ;) :D

[Render]

Mack, that's just showing off # >:(

So tell me, mate... they looky pricey... how much a kg did they set u back in Woolies? #;D I love the sneaky way you've taken them to the river bank and planted a lure in the mouth... Himmler would have been proud of a bit of propaganda like that! #;) #:P

Actually, when you said they'd taken a Man's 20, I had fearful visions of a terrible misadventure some poor bloke had whilst skinny-dipping! I hear the average Aussie is about 20mm or so - easy for a Jack to mistake for a beachworm dinner ;) ;D

hehehe, nice brace of Jacks there, Mack! That's some good fishin'and no mistake. What's the fuss about them... I was talking to a couple of fishos on the Tweed about how hard Bream scrap when you hook 'em and they started going right on about these here Jacks. Me, I've never even seen one, let alone hooked up to one, so I'll take their word for it! Do they even exist in the Tweed? Come to that, does anything other than small bream and small flatties exist in the Tweed?!

Cheers,

R

BTW, thanks for the kind words, Patto!

[MangroveJase]

Render,
On the northern bank of the Tweed, viewable from and just north of the bridge, there is great bream spot. You will notice when looking across from the Tweed side the other bank is lined with trees, with a rocky bank. On the rising tide of an evening, the 'bigguns' move in with force. A good basic berley, and white pillies with no weight, floated across the now covered rocky shore has produced some exceptional specimens for me on many occassions. At this time of year it can be a hot bite. Just remember bream are a naturally weary species, so clear water, noise etc, will spook the keepers always. This spot is quiet usually with no other fisho's around. It is well worth a bash.

Onya

MJ

[desertfisher]

If you think this is funny Patto,, check out "pom being a moron" a bit earlier in the list of topics. This silly bugger is like a one man circus ;D or a one man goon show, if you like. He should make an excellent fisherman as soon as he gets his sea legs, as he gets plenty of bites from this virtual jetty. ::). We have a Pommy mechanic at work who now lives in Queerland (Coochiemudlo Island I think) , who I would swear is this bloke's brother (Useless fisherman, attracts controversial conversation, loves the goons, and can't spell for shite ;D ). Keep up the good work Render,, it only makes me want to come out of the desert and go fishing :'(.

[Render]

MJ - cheers for the heads-up. I know the area you speak of, but I'm not completely clear what part you mean... check your PM! I'll post pics if I score a decent bream. Only thing is, I hear a legal-size bream may be over 30 years old. Makes me feel a bit rotten knocking one on the nut just for a dinner :-[

Desert... cheers for that... uhm, I think ;D. Yeah, I'm keeping up the good work as far as I can... when you say 'desert' where do you mean? BTW, ALL Brits attract controversial conversation... it's what we do best ::)

Suppose I'd better tell u how I got on fishing wise. Well, I had another odd catch. It was a legal flathead on... flathead trachea! There's a new bait for ya! I had the head of the last flattie I caught in the berley pot, ready to go into my livebait net when the bream head in it got picked to bits. The fishies were not biting on the ocky legs I was using so i had a look at the head to see if I could cut a bait from it. The trachea looked promising, if not a bit gory, so on the hook it went. I lobbed out and before I could sit down, there was a big tug on the line! Reeled in and there was another legal flattie!

"You cannibalistic sod... that might have been your mother in law", I said as I clobbered it with my US Marines K-Bar shiv.
"It was", he croaked... "It was worth it to finally bite the old cow's jugular out!"
Anyway, he was yummy and a couple of bream also came home with me. (I still phone one of them, and we're having a drink on Friday ;) )

Flathead... they're pretty crap, aren't they? The ones I've hooked haven't had much by way of fight in them. After the initial run, they just lie there, like a Frenchwoman. Frankly, I've hooked seaweed that's given a better account of itself. Oh well - they're yummy and I still want to catch them.

Cheers,

R