Tailor, Heavy trace?

[Fisherman02]

hey fellas
i have heard the timeless saying that you will get more hits when using lighter traces but lose more fish, is there an exception to this rule for tailor? I have some plastic coated (black) 60lb snap wire traces and was wondering if i snap the gangs to the trace would the tailor mind?
cheers jack

[SteveCan]

In my humble opinion Jack - YES! the Tailor will mind.

This is a bit of a pet Peeve of mine - sure Tailor have sharp teeth that can cut mono leaders - but if you are fishing with a gang they almost never get near the trace. I said to Lindy two years ago - "Bugger it - I am going mono on the trace for tailor and if they start biting me off I will consider changing" ::) I am still using mono...

Typically for beach fishing tailor I use 6kg main and an 8kg trace - in the last two years I have caught more tailor than any other species and not once have I been bitten off by a tailor.

If I was going to use wire I would probably take a leaf out of the mackerel fiso's book and try something like this - Single or gang hook, 30LB stainless wire tied to 25lb mono leader. A bit more unobtrusive than your black coated wire & snaps...

That's if I was going to use wire - but I wouldn't... ;) #

Cheers
Steve

[Fisherman02]

hey steve
thanks mate will try that mono thing
cheers again
jack

[Wayne]

Jack , for beach fishing wire traces are comonly used for chasing big tailor (say over 2kg) and it is also preferred to use a two hook trace instead of ganged hooks and use flesh bait such as bonito or horse mackeral.
For average tailor that feed in schools (choppers under 2kg) mono traces, ganged hooks, and pillies are great. You will occasionally get bitten off however if you keep the bait moving towards the beach most hookups will occur on the bottom hook well away from the trace.
Then again if the choppers are thick it wouldn't matter if wire, mono or rope was used they will attack anything.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Wayne

[Fisherman02]

thanks wayne
well i would be mostly targeting smaller tailor, also whats the best tide for tailor is it high tide on the beach of course
I would mostly be targeting them on beaches on gold coast mostly main beach
cheers jack

[jaybee]

Tailor or mackerel my bro an i don't use wire at all anymore, the bite offs compared to fish to boat out way the use of wire. besides if a fish bites you off then it wasnt meant to be eh ;D
cheers.

[Wayne]

Jack, when fishing for tailor it is often best to have a good look at the beach before you start ( ie mid afternoon if fishing for a dusk burst or even better the day before). Look for a gutter that has a good entrance and a defined outer bank. I like casting into the white water and let the bait wash into the gutter.
From experience I have found the slack tides to be better in the surf (ie when there is a high low and a low high).The high tides near the new or full moons are too big and if there is a bit of southerly swell the sweep can be very anoying and at times unfishable.
Try to get some information on whether the tailor are biting at the Sand Pumping Jetty. If they are it is highly likely that the gutters adjacent Sea World and Narrow Neck are holding choppers especially for that afternoon burst. Better still take a boat go to South Straddie at say the Duck Ponds, walk across the island and avoid the crowd and fish there for the night.
Also I have found that if a good westerly or south westerly is blowing it doesn't matter what the tide is, it should be good for fishing. Usually the best fishing should occur once the water has broken the outer bank on the flood tide and on the early part of the ebb. Try not to fish alone as a group of anglers seemsto hold the choppers within casting distance.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Wayne

[Fisherman02]

thanks mate!!
with all that info up i should get some tailor mmmmmm
cheers jack

[gavsgonefishing]

I have never fished with wire when fishing in the surf or off the rocks, and from memory, even in the hot bite session, I have not lost a ganged rig. I fish with 6 kg main and about 300mm of 10kg leader ('cause the spool was sitting around looking lonely). I run the surf sinker on the leader to a snap on, where the gang of straight 5/0s sit. I have done extensive testing with the lead straight against the hook verses the lead sitting above the leader and have found no appreciable difference. The advantage of running lead staight to the hook is the extra distance you can peg.

I have several of the leaders pre made with the different size leads so you are not stuffing around trying to make another rig up when the fish are on.

After the sun has well and truly set, and the conditions are right, I change over to my heavy surf rod, and 10 kg main with 15kg ( sometimes 24kg) leader with a slab of tailor or mullet connected via 2 x stainless steel maruto 7/0's (from memory).There's no wire in between the hooks and bite offs are minimal.

I agree with what Wayne has said, especially the SW or W winds, they seem to feed aggressively. They don't seem to like the dirty water that the NEers bring in. look for deep holes or gutters and prefer to fish on the exit or opening in the deeper water. I fish mainly from about 4 to 5 days before the full and the new moon and up to or just after the moon. You will find that you will get a bite on the dusk period, then as the season progresses, you will get a bite on the tide change, well after when most people have gone home.

[NeilD]

Hi .
I have just bought some 20kg graphite knotable leader which is a polyethalene braided with stainless steel. It is very supple and can be albrighted to your leader or main line. I intend to use it to snood one hook above another with a few extra inches of trace joined to my leader. I reckon this will be great on jumbo tailor and still not worry a Jew if he happens along. Downside is I might spend all night playing with a big fella in a grey suit.
Cheers Neil

[Fisherman02]

and i heard that using swivels is a big no no is this still true when u r retrieving really slow or just chuck on a sinker and the hooks, just worried about all that line twist!
cheers jack

[aquarius]

Jack you can use SMALL BLACK SWIVELS but not the shinny brass ones as the tailor tend to hit them and cut the line.
Cheers Brent

[Fisherman02]

o ok
cheers

[sharkbait]

Jack - Ask nugget or go to one of his seminars at the boat show. As for my two bobs worth, I use a single 6/0 hook and one foot of 38lb single strand wire connected with a haywire twist/barrel roll and a small black crane swivel at the other end. add 6 or 7kg line and 6 - 10 ball sinker and deep water close to the beach, with an opening to the sea. Look for a horseshoe shaped gutter. also forget pillies, use mack tuna if you can get it and fish at night. Thread your mack strip right up onto the wire so that the knot is covered. If they are picky I use two ganged 5/0s on 20lb mono but have been bitten off many times.

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

jack,

the boys have already said this but briefly - if there is loads of light about & you want a bag of smaller size fish on gangs use a mono trace (I use 60lb Jinkai - it gives you half a chance if something bigger comes along)

For big tailor single hook, wire is a must - sharkbait nailed the bait in one - Macktuna. Big tailor don't frig around - they take what they want - it is a different form of fishing to using pillies - you are feeding the fish to get the hook in deep.

I reckon start off with gangs, pillies & mono traces. Once you are competent with catching them & fishing with your eyes closed target the bigger tailor at night. You will want a good apprenticeship when you connect to your first 3kg+ tailor.

You will never tire of the action & the serene quality of standing on a remote beach alone in the dead of night.


seeyainthesurf,

chris

[Fisherman02]

thanks mate so do u mean that i use a single hook with a whole pillie and wire?
cheers jack

[Wayne]

Jack.. use a single hook only with a piece of flesh not a whole pillie. Personally I prefer fresh bonito, horse mackeral or frigate mackeral. I agree with Chris that Mac Tuna is good but its tough skin makes getting the hook out too bloody hard especially if the dart have been picking at it. On a cold night my fingers are already numb enough.
Cheers
Wayne

[sharkbait]

Wayne - you got that right it is a bugger to get off the hook. I usually carry pliers just for that. mullet is a pain too.

Chris - you are dead on the mark about fishing the beach at night, there is something about it that just keeps you coming back for another night. love it.

[mackmauler]

Regards the mactuna, I like nothing better than using a mactuna for bait, gives me great satisfaction, don't be put off by the tough skin, get some stainless scissors and cut it off the hook, very quick and easy when you got 6 droppers that have been ravaged by pickers on the reef.

[Chuong]

Seeing that it's winter... should have an Ausfish tailor night. Then you gun tailor anglers can pass a few tips around.

[SteveCan]

I like all this Talk of Mac Tuna - We are heading to Moreton this weekend and I have a few kg's filleted and salted in the freezer. I haven't used it before as bait - but you can be sure I am keen to give it a go. They tell me Moreton fishes better at night anyways and with the moon on the wane it shouldnt' be too bright for them. I also had 100m of 14lb fireline so I bunged that on the Alvey - hoping it will increase my casting distance. Terminal rig will be 25LB mono trace onto 30LB stainless wire and a 7/0 chemically sharpened suicide. I was thinking of using two swivels on the mono to keep the sinker off the braid - any ideas on how long the trace should be? - I was thinking of a fairly short one of about 50 cm to maximise the casting distance. Suggestions?

As always, I am excited to try a new method (for me) and see how it goes - hopefully will have something to put in the fishing reports on Monday.

Cheers
Steve

[Wayne]

Steve ,there are a few variations used and it comes down to personal choice. I have this feeling that Nugget has given some examples in the past. I would suggest at least 50cm wire with another 50cm of mono leader. To benefit casting have your sinker (8 to 10 Ball ) run on the wire right to the top of hook. For big tailor the idea is to anchor the bait and wait.They would just love a nice slab of dark bloody mac tuna.The sinker will not effect the strike of a large tailor.. Wer'e not chasing finicky are we ?
Hope this helps
Cheers Wayne

[Wayne]

I wanted to say that we're not chasing finiky whiting are we ? One thing to be aware of is that large tailor often pick up the bait and swim towards the beach ... and all you will feel is very slack line. Things change a bit when they turn and head out to sea and this is often the moment that a good fish is lost.

[porl]

Wayne, i got the feeling that you didn't quite finish that thread, after the "that is the time most big tailor are lost" i expected the .. "so what you do is ..." - so what do ya do, upon any slack whip up the stick and wind in like crazy or what ???

[Wayne]

To be honest I do not really know what is the best way to handle the situation when the tailor strikes heading towards the beach.... because sometimes you set the hooks by doing nothing however the accepted practice is to wind like crazy to remove the slack and run backwards the beach, rod tip held high and try to set the hooks. I have caught fish this way and lost them this way. Probably I have lost fish more times by doing nothing.. when the fish takes up the slack your rod can almost be ripped out of your arms. The other disadvantage of doing nothing is that your bait will be stripped clean.

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

... and run backwards the beach, rod tip held high ...


RIGHT - LISTEN UP !!!

Wayne, I don't want you or anyone else on these boards running away from a fish. STAND YOUR GROUND MAN !!!

...forchristsake wouldn't even been thought of in my day.


with tongue firmly in cheek,

seeyainthesurf,

chris

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

I should point out that I use an Alvey 700 in the surf for the very reason that it can rip line in faster than any other when a fish is heading at you. You should wind in if your line goes suddenly slack - you risk a good fish getting tangled in the mainline if you don't - even though I know better I lost a good fish on south straddie a fortnight back by inattention.

chris

[sharkbait]

Chris - I also use a 7 inch and a 13'6 snyder glas that was made in 1977, makes for very sore arms in the morning hey. Heres a thought for all you keen beach fishos who use alveys, who uses an alvey with a drag and who uses direct wind, (use your hand for the drag)
and why. I was talking to some mates who regularly fish N. Straddie who reckon the drag is much smoother and have lost too many fish on direct wind alveys. Personally I love the feeling of the spool going crazy in my hand, I think it gives you more control.

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

alvey 700C5 from memory - thats a star drag but I fish in free spool engaging the anti reverse somewhere after the initial set - allows the best of both worlds - especially when you are beaching a decent fish & you need that second arm free on the gaff or to gill

chris