Green zones...A political solution??

[kc]

For everyone along the QLD coast currently getting shafted by GBRMPA as well as those in Vic and NSW who have coped some pretty rough justice recently you need to consider that the route cause of all this angst. Both major parties are pandering to the greens and the democtrats in the senate and no matter how much we bitch and moan about what is going on we are likely to get rolled on the green zone issue because it effectively has full parlimenraty support.

They are ignoring the sheer weight of numbers involved in rec fishing and while most of us will always vote labour or liberal in a house of representitives election the senate is a different kettle of fish(excuse the pun) altogether and many of us vote differently in the senate (to keep the bastards honest so to speak).

Some ground work is currently being done with groups all along the coast of QLD through the Australian Electoral Commission to form a legally constituted and registerd political party "The recreational Fishing party" (for want of a better name at present) which will look to expand interstate and stand candidates for the next senate elections. We clearly have both the numbers and ability to make a significant impact and the very process of starting the ball rolling will make waves on capital hill in a very short space of time. They know just how many of "us" there really are.

Post any comments for or against and if you want to be put on an e-mail list for future updates send me an e-mail direct to kc@whitsunday.net.au It is about time some of these @$#% realised we actually live in a democracy

[NQCairns]

That is just the best news KC. I know there is no hope with GBRMPA. It is as you say, this walkover is to me akin to getting bitten by a mosquito, that bite will be gone soon enough and will not change the original camping trip plans even mildly.
At the moment we rec fishos are just a very minor inconvenience and GBRMPA on the surface must be seen to have been dealing with us as if our views are a concern of theirs. The outcome is already known inside GBRMPA mark my words. I have spent some time in conservation in state gov and the com gov is a much much worse animal.
My guess is we will get around a 3-5% decrease in Green but that will be turned blue if we are lucky (those areas were included solely to give back) and other larger areas will go from green to yellow, so we will be screwed there also. We will get nothing they have not already earmarked for return but only if we squeak loud enough.
Our commonwealth Govs behaviour and complete disregard of the people of Australia with Detention camps, Telstra, Kids overboard, Iraq etc etc etc, we rec fisho's just do not stand a chance against a gov that can do as it pleases when it pleases or is willing to change the legislation to that effect.

Any way when QLD gov takes the rivers away Me or mine will no longer be able to vote for Labour and when the Com Gov takes away another slice of harmless choice and freedom away for no ecological gain myself and mine will not be able to vote for them either - ever! bring on your political party I will be forever your puppet just tell me who to vote for in the future, I dont care who they are just as long as the little people have a real voice. Sick of being dictated upon in this country. Will be getting that email sent soon. Spit finished....Nq

[PinHead]

"The Recreational Fishing Party"..you have got to be kidding. How could anyone in their right mind vote in any election for a party with only one policy. What would the policy on eductaion be? Teaching legal limits of fish? Or...what about the Justice system..if you fish you can do anything. Hell, One Nation was a big enough joke. Forget that idea guys..if you want to do anything just keep lobbying the present incumbents. Starting a one policy party is doomed to derision and failure.

[banshee]

Pinhead, you would do well to read kc's post again,he advocates for a voice in the senate not the house of reps.Parties with a single platform already exist,an example is John Tingles shooters party.You obviously are not aware of how the system works.Politics in this country is very much a numbers game,pollies once elected set about lobying other pollies to shore up support for their own agendas(they trade their votes),once the numbers are in they make their move.This is why a fishing party is essential to have our voice heard.This is also why the marine park is probably a done deal,the Libs have bowed to the Greens,now the Greens will have to help the Libs get something through the senate(the sale of Telstra?)I would definatly vote for a person whose platform was based on rec fishing.

[Volvo]

:)Might as well n gotta start somewhere.I'm all for the part ya said "they have ta realise we live in a Democracy".
One day it's bag Limits
Green Zones
More bag Limits
More Zones
More ?????????
then :-X for everyone????

[kc]

Thanks for the feedback to date guys and yes Pinhead, (good $#@% name) we are not interested in "running the country" just having some influence in the senate. We might be a "one issue party" but are the greens any different???and they are controlling the balance of power in the senate and leading our government by the nose!!. Being about representing the interests of the over 2 million fisho's does not mean we are brainless morons who can't make a well reasoned judgement on a whole raft of other issues, it just means we can exercise our democratic right to be heard..and mark my words..this democratic right is being totally ignored by the government, GBRMPA and other marine park agencies who seem to treat our imput with contempt. This whole thing may or may not happen but I would bet my left nut that the details of this post has already made it to Canberra and they will be watching with extreme interest the comments made over the next couple of days.

[budgie]

kc,
walk the walk, talk the talk and see what comes! There has to be a way, cheers

[PinHead]

I must be going blind banshee..I don't see anywhere in my post about the House of Reps...and..I know all too well how the system works..I have not noticed much legislation from the shooters party being passed..treated with derision..absolutely a waste of time being there..the senate is an unrepresentative rabble...how can a state like Tasmania or even Qld have the same number of senators as NSW or Vic..that is unrepresentative to start with...unfair balance as per population...and I know why that is so..to give an equal say to each state in regards to state powers..but it is still unrepresentative as per populations. At this stage the government needs the greens or the democrats to pass some legislation but the single senators do not matter...and just bear in mind..3 strike outs and double dissolution...I am in favour of being against the current proposals however I do not think forming a political party is the way to go. If you get significant signatures on a petition and present it to a local MHR then it has to be tabled in Parliament...that may be a better way plus intense lobbying of sitting members.

[PinHead]

LOL kc..I see you try to make some fun of my name on here...for a lil bit of info..the Pin is short for Jumpinpin...you may have heard of it..tis a lil fishing spot. But...go right ahead...you can make fun of it..I find that kind of thing a lil childish..I left that behind in about grade 4 at primary school. Rational discussion and points of view are excellent..that is what this is about...everyone is entitled to their opinions and be respected for those...however, ******** attacks and insults really do not belong in adult forums...sorta brings it down to the level of parliament.

[bugman]

KC,

I admire anyone who is prepared to get off their backside and do anything at all to help the cause of recreational fishing - I think we all would. I congratulate you.
Having said that I hope you're realistic about your chances of getting a Senate berth. You mention "up and down the Queensland coast" so I guess we're only talking about running a candidate for a Qld postion in the federal upper house. (Qld only has one house and the shooters party lives in the NSW state upper house - not the federal version).
Given that the electoral system for the Senate works on percentage of vote distributed across the parties - and the tendency for people to not vote "below the line" on the tablecloth ballot paper - you are really facing an up hill battle.

From memory I think you needed around 6-8% outright percentage of votes as one individual candidate in the last Qld Senate round to be elected. No one came close. The greens only got 2.1% http://www.aec.gov.au/_content/How/pocket/sec4_2.htm

Having said all that - don't give up. But like Mr Pinhead says it's actually easier to work with the system (regardless of how bad it is) than try and change the system.

If you run however - I'll vote for you (depending on where your preferences lie of course).

Brett Bugg
aka (bugman)

[kc]

Fair call! I apologise. It had been a long day. I used to fish the pin a long time ago...when Rat Island still existed & before I discovered fish like Barra which eat baits bigger than the bream we used to catch at the pin.

The issue of a one "policy" party has both an up and down side with the upside being it is very readily identifiable to potential voters...no confusion...no hidden adgenda and can very easily and inexpensively reach its target voters market through specialist media. The downside is that some elements of the press will try to treat us like redneck morons but provided our media spokesperson can handle the press and can think on their feet this can actually be an advantage.

We certainly need more than 1 state involved and if this moves along it will need to be launched at a national level so candidates can stand in all states. With NSW and VIC anglers feeling pretty disenfranchised by recent government policy as well as the obviuos troubles up here the time is pretty right to "test the market".

The biggest single issue is the potential for funding from the Australian Electral Commission if a party can generate 4% of the vote. Even if was unsuccessful in gaining parlimentary representation and with that at least the chance to present a case to the relavent minister on a daily basis (like the greens do), we would get enough funding to co-ordinate some serious and sustained lobbying. All Kemp is hearing about is what a great job GBRMPA is doing.

The shooters party in the NSW upper house may or may not have made any difference but they achieved what was apparently immpossible and were re-elected for another term so they must be making enough impact to satisfy the people who vote for them. No one should need reminding that there are an awful lot more fishers than shooters and all we really want is for the politicians and there lap dogs at GBRMPA to take our submissions seriuosly rather than treat them with the contempt they are currently showing.

An awful lot of voters vote for a major party in the house of reps but a secondary party in the senate and the greens have been a major benificiary of these recent voting trends. They will lose votes and so will the major parties and with the loss of votes is a loss of AEC grant money.

Anyhow, keep the feedback coming. This post needs to remain high profile for a couple of days and have as much feedback posted as possible. Apathy will be what stops this before it starts and with that the future of fishing is looking more and more like a McFish Burger.

[banshee]

Pinhead,to the best of my knowlege(limited)the senate is not in a position to formulate policy it simply passes or rejects bills put forward by the govt,these bills then become law or they do not(over simplified).The fact that you state "I have not noticed much legislation from the shooters party being passed" leeds me to believe,contrary to your claims, that you almost certainly are unaware of how the system works.I find your argument flawed from this point on.It is my opinion that petitions end up as toilet paper in the halls of parliment house.

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

... one "policy" party has both an up and down side with the upside being ... #...no confusion...no hidden adgenda ...

have been watching this topic with great interest but have to disagree with that comment -

ALL agendas EXCEPT ONE are hidden with a one policy party.

On bills unrelated to their platform they vote to conscience &/or whatever deal has been struck.

It is a shame our most powerful lobbying body Sunfish appears split between those who demand specific interest & those who seek the middle line which is probably more politically possible (in my opinion).

I will never vote for a single agenda party. Contrary to the stickers on the back of my car, the magazines littering the house, the brain washing of my children & the ridiculously tackled up state of my boat, garage & shed, there is more to life than fishing.

Your final paragraph I thoroughly agree with kc. Making the topic a high profile issue has to be most important.
seeyainthesurf,

chris

[Gazza]

I don't know about a 'political' solution ,but i do note that an 'independent' (ex-nat) was at an important meeting of Fishpersons.....

Lindsay wasn't ,wonder what he actually 'achieved' that justified the 'absence' , and for that matter ,how would you depend on him again?

Changing the political landscape......will be monitored ;D

[PinHead]

Banshee..I am sorry you rejected my opinions and that I have no knowledge of the system. I hate to inform you..but a Senator can introduce a Bill to Parliament as can any Member introduce a Private Member's Bill. The following is copied and pasted from the Comm. Govt. website....

"Private Senators' and Members' bills
The right to propose legislation is not restricted to the government of the day. Any senator or member of the House of Representatives may introduce a bill and, in the Senate, a private senator's bill is dealt with in exactly the same way as a government bill. While comparatively few private senators' and members' bills are agreed to by both Houses, some significant proposals have become law as a result of private senators' and members' initiatives. Compulsory voting at federal elections was introduced as a result of Senator Payne's Electoral (Compulsory Voting) Act 1924. The banning of tobacco advertising in the print media was achieved through Senator Powell's Smoking and Tobacco Products Advertisements (Prohibition) Act 1989. From the Parliament's perspective, the most significant piece of legislation sponsored by a private senator or member was the Parliamentary Privileges Act 1987 which was introduced by the President of the Senate and which codified the Parliament's legal immunities and its powers to protect the integrity of its processes. "

Alas, I have no knowledge of how the system works.
You guys are missing my point...I am in favour of trying to oppose these proposals but trying to run for Parliament as a new party is a costly and worthless waste of time. It would be better to try and join an established party..try to get pre selection then get elected and then create havoc..but that is also a tough road to plough.

[banshee]

pinhead,it would appear that it is my understanding of the system that is found wanting, not yours , I stand corrected,definately a case of engageing the mouth(pointer finger) before the brain.For the record,I found out this arvo that through a private members bill put forward by Tingle, the people of N.S.W can now defend themselves,their families and property without risking prosecution or civil liability.I guess one person can make a difference. what it all boils down to is this,If you are happy with the way things are in QLD stick with your system, if you are not, try and change it.Here in N.S.W. I pay to go fishing,I have a vested interest in the fisheries,while I may not like the marine park in my area,I can still fish in it(for the time being)and I can see my fees working through buy backs and rec only areas.In short the bastards owe me something for my money.

[luigi]

That's great KC, we sure are bashing our heads against a brick wall now. As I see it, we have nothing to lose but a hell of a lot to gain if we play the cards right.

You have my support mate.

I was just thinking that "The Australian Fishing Conservation Party" could be an appropriate name.

There would be a lot of people out there who would say that "Fishing Conservation" is an oxymoron but the vast majority of rec fishers I know are conservationists who also happen to enjoy fishing. The no-fishing green zone abomination is alienating & disenfranchising all fishers from any conservation process due to the unnecessary, unrealistic and unreasonable fishing prohibitions. How the hell can we support a process which is so detrimental to rereational fishers and so potentially disasterous to the the ecology of the GBR Marine Park??

[kc]

This whole issue is very much a "suck it and see" experience.

Joining an existing party and attempting pre-selection etc is fine except as a candidate you have to toe the party line (or as Katter did tell them to shove it and go independant). The RAP has bi-partisan support with both majors pandering to the greens in the senate.

The due process of forming a registered political party is reasonabley honerous but not particularly expensive and nor would targeting potential voters be, given the relative low cost of fishing media. As for wasting time....so is everyone trying to fish in an ever shinking puddle. Time and patience is usually one things all fisho's share and if time is given on a voluntary basis then the costs are minimal in the initial stages. Mind you 5000 party members at $20 goes a fair way to starting the ball rolling and this is without seeking any funding from tackle and boating industries.

At this stage all that has been done is some discussions with the Australian Electoral Commission, obtain the required paperwork and start some discussions between groups in Cairns, Townsville and the Whitsundays.

Feedback in these forums will also influence wether this concept has any merit. The alternative is to do nothing or participate in the charade being touted as "public consulation" and then get the KY gel ready and bend over.

This topic is getting plenty of views but not a lot of comments. Just a simple Yes/No/Maybe will help determine wether it is worth pursuing or all just too hard.
Personally I'm all for trying to change the system rather than work with one we all know is tainted. There are some pretty educated and talented people amoungst the ranks of fisho's and fishing media who have enough public profile to attract voters and while it may not be enough to get over the line it would certainly be enough to make Canberra sit up and take notice.

At the end of the day that is really all everyone wants.

[Gazza]

Hey Lou......you're hired #;D ;D ,
shame only YOU have the power to make it so #;)

Now ,KC ,every success in your endeavours, but , please note ,somebody ALREADY collects the PPV @$12 (plus?) ,and IF that 'area' is reduced to continue 'fishing' ,well it's not an improvement ,that I wish to invest in......

Please ,you have MY full authority , to use MY money ,instead of PPV Pirates!! (poetic licence #;) )

p.s. just chuck into the 'melting pot' ,no answer req'd #;)

Regards
Gazza