Wind Speeds

[Lucky_Phill]

Who do I believe ?

at 6pm 19th July the following results were found.

Ausfish...............................0 KNTS from the sse
Cleveland Weather..............5.6 KNTS from sse
B.O.M Cape Moreton.............35 KNTS from sse
B.O.M Spitfire banks............25 KNTS from sse

Do I get in the tinnie and hit the bay ?

Brownie is always calling for us to check the weather before we venture. Seems like we have to get onto the water itself, to be sure, to be sure.

I know that Cape Moreton is always 10 knots above everywhere else as the wind " reader " is at the top of the hill and the wind increases speed going up and over the top.

OK< the wind on land is less because...!

Maybe the land heats up during the winter months and pushes the wind up ( heat rising thing ), therefore much less wind over land. But, I don't want to fish on the land. :(

All I want to know is can I hit the bay and not get blown away ?

??? ??? Phill ??? ???

[mackmauler]

The latest obs are on the bom site, there are several positions to check in case 1 has failed ::) its gotta be at least 15-20 on the bay by the current obs.

[Wesley_Pang]

Phil,

How do you get the wind speed from the B.O.M?

Do you use http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/wrap_fwo.pl?IDY03026.txt

The reading are quite old with the time on the reading 0800(8am).

I can confirm that it was windy out there this morning.

The Cleveland site reading are always bit low. Must be a protected spot in Raby Bay.

Wes

[Big_Kev]

I just look out the window.There is a big tree and if it moving a bit the winds are light, if it is moving a lot it is to windy to venture onto the bay.
If it is not there it means it is to windy to go outside.
If there is a breeze around I will get it my house.Best part about living up the top of a hill.
And yes Phil it is a bit windy for the tinny.
Cheers Kev. 8) ::)

[leeroy]

gday phill was keen to fish last sat nite 12/7 to take advantage of full moon as we were fishing wide barwon banks sent sat morn on net looking at weather sites each one told a different story worst case was for 15 n/s also found 5 to 10 s/e did not want in n/e so hummed &hared for 2 hours & decided to go only get on piss if stay at home on way to ramp tune into 4KQ forecast 15/20 s/e very confused but venture out wind at the banks was about 5 s/e till around 10pm when it turned n/e 10 to 15 so i thank if keen to go put boat in & cheak out for yourself if conditions are marginal













sites

[Surfwx]

Who do I believe ?

Phil have a look here (http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/wrap_fwo.pl?IDQ65117.html) Inner Beacon,Spitfire Channel and Banana Bank are all updated every half hour. Cape Moreton every hour.

Out of these I'd not bother with Inner Beacon and Cape Moreton as they are both located to high to be of much use. Cape Moreton's anemometer elevation is 99m whilst Inner Beacon is 20m compared to spitfire's 7m and Banana's 7m.


OK< the wind on land is less because...!

As the song goes "there's a fraction to much friction"

[Kerry]

Do I get in the tinnie and hit the bay ?

Now that wouldn't be real clever.

Cheers, Kerry.

[Heath]

I find the most reliable readings come from here.

http://www.weatherzone.com.au/observations/observations.jsp?state=QLD

These are the actual weather stations the BOM get their info from. These are updated every 15 mins.

[imported_admin]

Phill

Best to check as many current conditions as you can as well as the forecast. It will depend on the wind direction and where on the bay you are heading.

Here are a few to look at
http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/wrap_fwo.pl?IDQ65117.html
http://www.clevelandweather.net/
http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDQ65113.shtml
http://www.ausfish.com.au/nugget/predictions.htm
http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/wrap_fwo.pl?IDQ17500.txt

I can tell you for sure that the wind was 0 here at 6 pm, but then I am a long way from the water

At the time of writing this
Here - 4
Archerfield - 3
Cleveland - 5.6
Cape Moreton - 26
Brisbane Airport - 9
Spitfire Channel - 19
Inner Beacon - 11
Banana Bank - 12

[Surfwx]

I find the most reliable readings come from here.

http://www.weatherzone.com.au/observations/observations.jsp?state=QLD



All the observation data on the weatherzone site is a direct dump from the BOM site from data obtained from the BOM AWS's (automatic weather stations).

AWS's are generally set-up to spit out a reading on the half hour and/or every hour, unless special conditions are met, that's why you see the occasional report with what appears to be a strange times on it (not on the half hour or hour.)

The general criteria for a special issue are:
Wind gust that exceeds 10kts above a mean wind speed of 15kts or greater
Sudden temperature rise/fall of 5 degrees
(there are a few more, but not worth worrying about, as there more related to aviation.)

[Kerry]

Wind is a funny thing and certainly wouldn't be basing any decisions about conditions on the bay or offshore simply from land based stations.

For sure some of the BOM sites (they are not Weatherzone sites that's for sure) aren't perfect and for local areas one gets to know exactly what they mean and why.

Even offshore stations can be variable due to many things and there's one particular local station here that when it's blowing will always report the highest speeds. Surprising what causes some of the effects.

Cheers, Kerry.

[Lucky_Phill]

Shoot ! That got a lot of responses !

All good info. The only site I don't usually check is " weatherzone ". But will hive it a shot.

NO, Kerry I wouldn't have gone out, but then again I have gone to places like Peel in a 20 knot s/e. Ruff as gutz on the trip over but, once there in the lee, quite comfortable.

Yes Kev, so when are you gettin the weather station on ya roof ?

I suppose the question should have been.....

Do " they " really know ?

Phill

[Heath]

All the observation data on the weatherzone site is a direct dump from the BOM site from data obtained from the BOM AWS's (automatic weather stations).

AWS's are generally set-up to spit out a reading on the half hour and/or every hour, unless special conditions are met, that's why you see the occasional report with what appears to be a strange times on it (not on the half hour or hour.)

The general criteria for a special issue are:
Wind gust that exceeds 10kts above a mean wind speed of 15kts or greater
Sudden temperature rise/fall of 5 degrees
(there are a few more, but not worth worrying about, as there more related to aviation.)


They are updated more frequently than 30 mins, I said 15 mins, but it is 10mins to be exact.

As an example

http://www.weatherzone.com.au/observations/history.jsp?wmo=94580&name=Gold_Coast&order=dtLocalDateTime&type=metar&10min=true

Weatherzone is an excellent site.

[Kerry]

For Heath, As a rule all BOM sites are definately not updated every 10 minutes especially some of the more remote offshore stations.

Hills aren't good sites either and as for the question "do they really know", well generally a forecast is just that, a forecast which is totally different to a "now cast" or a "past cast".

Lets put it this way "they" probably now a dam sight more (much much more) than they don't.

But for those that want more of a real-time now/past cast then not a problem just build ya own

http://www.cqnet.com.au/~user/mattk/www/pumpkin2.htm

but it does come at a cost, like everything else.

AUSFISH Steve, AND while were on the weather how does your station know if there's clouds, a few clouds, partly clouded or lots of clouds etc.

Cheers, Kerry.

[Surfwx]

They are updated more frequently than 30 mins, I said 15 mins, but it is 10mins to be exact.

Not all.... AWS's are generally setup to report on the half hour or hour.

A few, as you say, update every 10mins (well it's not actually 10 min, they send out a observation every minute, but that's another story)

Of the 170 odd reporting stations in Qld approx. 6% are set up to report minute data. Have a look on the weatherzone Qld observations page and you find 94580 (Gold coast seaway) and perhaps one other that are updating every 10 mins ?


Weatherzone is an excellent site.

Weatherzone is an excellent site, if not the best on the web.

But if your just after observation data why not go to the source?
eg
Current Brisbane Observations (http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDQ65113.shtml)

to me it makes sense, you can look at weatherzone,weatherundeground or who ever but they are just reproducing data that is taken from the BOM

[aido]

on brisbane airport today, the wind was pretty moderate with a
few good gusts. a good 10 to 15 knots in my guesstamation.
from there, went straight down to wello point (about 4pm) and
expected to see white caps out there across to peel and north, looked damned flat to me.
from wello to manly across that way was glassy???
light se wind with the smallest hint of waves on the edge of the ramp.

dead calm now, and betting someone is having a whale of a time out there.

[skippa]

G'day Aido,

What a difference a few hours makes. I was at Wello about 1.30 today watching the Kite Surfers hooting across to Huybers (at back).

Looking S/E towards Peel there were plenty of white caps. Looking towards Manly you couldn't see as many, but you never do when looking where the wind is blowing to, as compared to where it blows from. ;)

Cheers,
Skippa 8)

[aido]

hi skippa,
surprised me, 35 minutes from airport to wello.
what a difference? love to know if it was still blowy
at the a.p. when i was at w.p.
if my rig wasn't stuck at cbs the last eight weeks then
i know where i would be right now.
if anyone has good or bad experiences with these guys
give me a p.m. thanks...
if you don't know what i'm talking about then, don't ask.
thanks.

[skippa]

G'day Aido,

I personally haven't had my boat serviced at CBS, but I do notice their stickers on outboards on various boats I've seen. You know.... this boat serviced by.....

Wouldn't want ANY stickers on my Yammie!!!!! >:(

Cheers,
Skippa 8)

[Heath]

Not all.... AWS's are generally setup to report on the half hour or hour.

A few, as you say, update every 10mins (well it's not actually 10 min, they send out a observation every minute, but that's another story)

Of the 170 odd reporting stations in Qld approx. 6% are set up to report minute data. Have a look on the weatherzone Qld observations page and you find 94580 (Gold coast seaway) and perhaps one other that are updating every 10 mins ?
You are certainly correct. All the ones I use are the ones they are updated more frequently.



Weatherzone is an excellent site, if not the best on the web.

But if your just after observation data why not go to the source?
eg
Current Brisbane Observations (http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDQ65113.shtml)

to me it makes sense, you can look at weatherzone,weatherundeground or who ever #but they are just reproducing data that is taken from the BOM

WeatherZone is able to be customised. I can have the info that I want as links thats why I use it. Also if I am not mistaken, they have the information provided by weatherfax for free ???

[Surfwx]

WeatherZone is able to be customised. I can have the info that I want as links thats why I use it.

The only thing that annoys me with the weatherzone, and the reason I went back to the bureau, is that they have most sites covered but have missed out just a few. I found myself flicking between the two and in the end I decided #I might as will stick to the one site.

Just on observations have you tried this freeware application? (http://www.birdcagesoft.com/index1.html)

It's from birdcage software and it "polls real time weather statistics from the Australian Bureau of Meteorology and displays them in a number of ways on your computer Desktop."
eg
http://www.users.bigpond.com/surf_wx/images/statsballoon.gif

I've been using it for the last couple of years and have found it excellent.

Don't know about the weatherfax but don't you just get charged on your bill like 1900 numbers?
Had to laugh though about SMS. The weatherzone introduces it first than all of a sudden the bureau have a free trail going, #the joy's of competition. #;D


then not a problem just build ya own

Excellent link Kerry, makes me want to start saving for my very own!

you can dial into a lot of the bureau stations through the AWIS system

AERODROME WEATHER INFORMATION SERVICE (http://www.bom.gov.au/reguser/by_prod/aviation/national/AWIB.shtml)

[Kerry]

Those AWIS's are handy especially if they would build aerodromes in the right place #;D.

So how does an AWS decipher cloud information, height, type etc. Automatically ??? but I suppose that might be the difference between a AWS and a AWIS, the "I"'s have it as in information over on top of an AWS.

Cheers, Ke

[Surfwx]

Kerry,
Basically AWS's come in two types, basic and advanced.

The basic one will usually give you temp, wind, pressure and rainfall.

An advanced, as well as the above, also have a ceilometer module (for measuring cloud heights/amounts) and a visibility module ( for measuring .... #;D ) added.

A ceilometer basically measure backscattering from an upwards pointing laser that takes readings ever 10 seconds, cloud amounts are obtained by an internal algorithm and they kinda look like this (this is a military version but you get the general idea):

http://www.users.bigpond.com/surf_wx/images/celiometer.gif


Any cloud/visibility information obtained #from an AWS is only ever used as a guide and you will only ever see it appended to the end of a report (due to it's limitations ie only measuring one small bit of the sky).

eg
METAR YSRI 230430Z 36017KT //// 22/06 Q1013 RMK RF00.0/000.0 CLD:CLR BLW 125 VIS:9999

The CLD is the cloud bit, in this case no cloud below 12500ft or clear below 125
Visibilty is the VIS:9999 #9999 just means visibility 10km or greater.

If a report includes cloud type, amount or height these have been added by a trained weather observer.

eg
METARAWS YSCH 0500Z 33013G17KT 9999 1ST018 6SC050 18.1/13.2 Q1019.8
RMK RF00.0/000.0

Cloud is 1/8 stratus at 1800ft .. 1ST018.. ##and #6/8 stratocumulus at 5000ft (6SC050)

You can also see from the above that Richmond (YSRI) is an advanced AWS and Coffs (YSCH) is a basic AWS. Richmond is unmanned and Coffs is manned.