Indigenous fishing methods face scrutiny

[jaybee]

A traditional owner from the Northern Territory says Indigenous hunting methods are less harmful to marine animals than those used by recreational and commercial fishermen.

Federal Fisheries Minister Senator Ian Macdonald says a national fishing survey has found 26,000 protected species, including dugong and turtles, were killed through Indigenous hunting over a year.

Senator Macdonald says the Federal Government needs to work with Indigenous communities to improve the ecological balance of protected species.

Terry Yumbulul is involved in an Indigenous coastal care group and says most Indigenous people hunt responsibly and only during certain seasons.

"Is it all right for government to stop people from eating?" he said.

"From putting something into their mouth?

"They're going into this world now to try and stop these people because they eat dugongs or turtles or other species of animals and mammals and fish from the sea once in a blue moon."

He says net fishing is more of a concern.

"That's what the greed takes over, you know, when people have the nets ... and they blame it on people who've got a spear to go out, with harpoon, and get one with that - with a net you get millions," Mr Yumbulul said.

Posted: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:58 AEST

[jaybee]

I personally believe let the people live their lives. Fair enough if it can be proven they are fishing illegally, however, i personally believe thats not the case.
cheers.

[luigi]

As far as I'm concerned, endangered animals should not be hunted or deliberately killed - full stop.

As far as traditional hunting goes, I haven't a problem with it if traditional methods are used.

[Fitzy]

Being part aboriginal Aussie I'll throw my hat in...
I (me) am allowed, by law, to go hunt dugong, turtles etc as part of my "traditional" heritage. However, I feel that if I want to do it, I should go cut a tree down, make a dug-out, make my spears & paddles from aforementioned tree & then strip my gear off & go for it. That's tradional in my eyes.

Using modern technology like sounders, outboards, GPS, stainless steel, GSP & Monofilament lines etc etc etc aint. Same deal for hunting on the land. Rifles are cheating the tradional ideals,,, go chase em down with a big stick I recon.
I do however think that our indigenous folk living in areas where hunting/fishing is still part of their every day lives, should be allowed to continue to do so. If they get greedy & thin out the dugongs in their own area, then they will go hungry. Been that way for several thousand years now & they/we aint hunted them out yet.

That's my slant on the topic.

Fitzy..

[Kerry]

"traditional methods" are the point in question and if people claim that right then they should also use traditional methods but as Fitzy mentioned that's very rarely the case these days and this is where the distinction should be made.

Cheers, Kerry.

[damons33]

the real point that arises here is the ownership situation, the gov has sold so many pro licenses before any reseach into stocks where done and now faced with the culpability of their actions look to do song and dance routine to cover up their own mistakes ,ultimately a balance will be struck even if at the moment pro fishing interests get the lion share of what is a public resource.
#the figures on return to our economy has been done now is time for our goverments"managers" to carve up the pie proportionately to those figures and i feel that alot of tourist come here to see aborigines in their natural state(living in harmony with nature) so i think their activity of traditional havesting must be incorporated with the tourist part of the figures which was the greatest sum something like 4.5 billion annually against 120million odd by the pro sector in this state- oneday soon the curtains will close on this cronyous circus! # #oneday the cream will rise to the top instead of the scum! # sincerly yours damo'

[Kerry]

Damo, I can see where one "might" get a little messed up and include pro comments but no pro or anybody else apart from Indigenous people have rights to protected species such as dugong, turtles etc, which is what the statement was about, protected species, 26,000 of them last year.

Any one of those 26,000 protected species that was caught using other than "traditional methods" should be deemed illegal.

It has not a dam thing to do with pro licences or whatever as no pro has a licence to catch protected species.

Cheers, Kerry.

[damons33]

that dont stop the methods employed by pros' and approved by governments kill'em, what would u know about sea turtle or dugong anyhow arent u the comms man? or do u see ure self as self appointed censor, arbiter and arbor of this forum. i made no attack on your comments! y do you see the need to attack mine! is it guilt for the lack of action applied to governments by ure own generation? things will change but no thanks to the likes of people like you who have denial issues to deal with! never mind pitting ureself against the likes of me, as im irrepressible to a managerist the likes of yourself- you voiced your oppinion yet saw fit to attack mine because it didnt sit well with your view on things. im not going to bother arguing the reason for the pro attack with you because it appears to me u are most likely a vested interest(maybe son of the seventh son prawn troweller) but anyone that knows anything about dugong knows they need sea grass to live, but im not going to challenge somebody with less imagination then a dugong!your attack is as shallow as your thought' the future is made with dreams not negativity- bow out gracefully and then the youth can repect you for that at least! ::)

[wizard]

It's it amazing how quick we are to point the finger of blame, the goverment does it,interest groups do it,professionals do it,you & I do it!!
The only race of people to blame for the over fishing or hunting or tree clearing or air pollution etc etc
THE HUMAN RACE is only cause of everything that is wrong today with the planet.Here are some facts
1/ The population of the world grows by over a million people each year.
2/Over 100,000 people will live longer next year than this year due to medical break thoughts.
3/Each year over 100 species of either bird/fish/mammal/frog what ever will be extinct.

It isn't hard to work out who is to blame,it is simple you and me.

Here is a old indian saying I can't remember it exactly but it goes something like this

When the last tree falls,
and the last deer dies,
no grass grows no more,
and the creek runs dry,
will the people realize that you can't eat MONEY!!

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #Wizard

[Kerry]

Damo, well you certainly don't practice what you preach. But maybe if you try some layout I might even be able to read all of it next time.

But from what I started to read, talk about a load of attacking cod wash but good you see you don't have an opinion. And this little thing . is a full stop, try and include some next time! you know they really make things easier to read and understand (if that's possible in this case).


Cheers, Kerry.

[peterbo3]

Evening all,
I ran my prawn trawler out of Cairns in the 80's. 45 foot,
8V71 GM with N55 injectors, 240 HP, 4X4 1/2 fathom nets.
We worked Princess Charlotte Bay & points north.
We stayed out of the seagrass beds because there are NO marketable prawns there as the water is too shallow. So did everyone else. We chased tigers & endeavours in the mud in 25-40 meters. The only time you worked shallow water in close was for the very limited banana season south of Cairns.
We caught no dugong. What turtles came onto the sorting tray went overboard superquick because every flipper flick sent prawns over the side. People did not kill them simply because it was easier to get them back into the water & there was no need to harm them. Just because you worked on a boat did not mean you became a savage.
These days all nets are fitted with Turtle Exclusion Devices (TEDS) in front of the cod end so the turtle catch is virtually nil. New square mesh cod ends will reduce fish bycatch greatly in the future.
Hope this post sheds some light on a subject about which few know anything.

[jaybee]

Gentlemen i think the real argument here is
A traditional owner from the Northern Territory says Indigenous hunting methods are less harmful to marine animals than those used by recreational and commercial fishermen. and this i beleive to be right. Now if in fact 26,000 species were killed in the northen territory in traditional method, how many Indigenous people live up there to feed. Example, there use to be an indigenous family fishing professionally at Burrum heads. Now these people had all the mod cons of the pro fisher. The exception was, when they wanted turtle, dugong, they rowed an old wooden dinghy and uses spears and lasso. This family was only six in size, however, when turtle or dugong was hunted it was for relatives and friends nothing was wasted, and yes i have tasted bbq dugong, a bit like salty veal. And you know what, when this family hunted they way they did, they were branded as savages, but it didnt stop the accusers from eating free handouts of turtle and dugong.
hope this helps
joe.

[Gazza]

Being part aboriginal Aussie I'll throw my hat in...
I (me) am allowed, by law, to go hunt dugong, turtles etc as part of my "traditional" heritage.

However, I feel that if I want to do it, I should go cut a tree down, make a dug-out, make my spears & paddles from aforementioned tree & then strip my gear off & go for it. That's tradional in my eyes.

Using modern technology like sounders, outboards, GPS, stainless steel, GSP & Monofilament lines etc etc etc aint. Same deal for hunting on the land. Rifles are cheating the tradional ideals,,, go chase em down with a big stick I recon.
I do however think that our indigenous folk living in areas where hunting/fishing is still part of their every day lives, should be allowed to continue to do so. If they get greedy & thin out the dugongs in their own area, then they will go hungry. Been that way for several thousand years now & they/we aint hunted them out yet.

That's my slant on the topic.

Fitzy..

Hi Fitzy , where I see a problem? ??? is the "part" part...

I understand as long as one is 1/16th ? or maybe 1/32nd ? oz-original , you qualify as 100% "traditional"

This (to me) is wrong and excessive ,maybe 1/2 or 1/4 and "living in a community where this traditional fishing is still practiced today" would be more appropriate ?
e.g. although "legal" would dugong-hunting in Pummicestone passage be acceptable "in that community" ?

Just my "slant" ,as although i'm probably some percentage british ,i don't feel that "releasing carp" as in the U.K. ,is "my right" here ?

Regards,
Gazza

[damons33]

Kerry, thanks for the composition advice.
# # Now about poor old aboriginals getting to many rights. So many people i hear complain about handouts to aboriginals and i ask then this, would you trade places with them????? i know i wouldnt . We have had 1000's of years to adjust to "modern civilization" they have had less then 30, before that they were include as a part of the fauna of this land. what did we give them tobacco and alchol-which has lead to the most shocking domestic violence record for any culture in world! I WOULDNT KICK A MAN WHO IS DOWN >:(
# All hopes for a better future for aboriginals, as they are a litmus for the rest of mankind. i wish you well noel.
# #By the way the biggest killer of green sea turtles in the world is longlinning(soon loggerhead will only be a word!), my attacks are not on the little guy working a license(thank you peter for your comments), but on the dpi who gave them out to the point of extreme pressure for the eco-system. Also state governments that service and refuel foreign vessels in light of their activities(namely japanese longliners).
# # # #we are all pretty blind with anger over the state of the worlds environments- we arent the people who made the money through this "looting" of the worlds resourses, we are the people who will HAVE TO FIX IT!
So the sooner we stop naming and blaming the sooner we will see thing come good, i support all and any move that will improve the state of our environment and try to live with an environmental awareness! I'm no greenie i'm just a realist!

[dazza]

After living and working in an indigenous community for the past couple of years i would like to put my two bobs worth in.
The community leaders are not stupid. They can see a need for sensible resource utilisation, and i think regulation will probably come from within the individual communities.
They have been fishing these waters for thousands of years and as such have developed extremley strong cultural and social bonds with turtle and dugong hunting, they want this tradition to cotinue, therefore recognise the need for some sort of control.
I think in the future we will see the hunting for turtle and dugong only for significant cultural festivals etc.

Maybe the good minister may also like to look at the effects of longlining, driftnetting,illegal fishing, pollution (i have seen many drowned turtles floating in discarded trawler net),
environmental degredation- the list goes on. To target one particular group is a bit narrow minded.
cheers
dazza