RIDE IN A TWIN or MONO

[snappa]

whats your choice ??? ???

[blaze]

Hi snapper
You are missing the best ride and that is the ride in a tri, best of both worlds. The people that used to travel on the devil cat across bass strait will say that cats are bad because a high % of them got sea sick. The biggest tri I have been on is 6.5 and that would have to be the best ride Ive had
cheers
blaze
GO THE MULTI HULLS
cheers
blaze

[Streaker]

Peter
I have never had the pleasure with a twin hull and I will probarly hitch a ride with you before I update my Streaker. But I must admit the ride in the Streaker is very comfortable. ::) ::) ::) (undecieded)
Wayne

[Kerry]

In that simple context, it's simply a non contest, it's a multi, tri-hulls fit in the middle :D

Cheers, Kerry.

[blaze]

Hi Kerry
Why would you say tri's fit in the middle, basicly I feel you have the planeing ability of a mono and the stabilty of a cat at rest and the cushioning effect of the air in a bit of rough stuff
cheers
blaze

[jaybee]

been in a twin off nsw. qld and in moreton bay, plus been in a tri in moreton bay, the twin wins hands down, specially in a following sea and a 2 ft slop on top that the bay can thro at you. my brother had a 25 ft nova mono twin volvos and when i think back it was really ruff compared to the 16 ft cat. Stability comes into it as well when at rest, catn beat the twins, found the tri bounce at rest on a chop like a mono.
cheers
joe.

[Kerry]

Hi Blaze, always one of "those" subjects ;D tri's are a bit of a different breed and the old saying about "who needs 3 hulls when 2 works better" isn't far off the mark.

At rest multi's and mono are generally 2 worlds apart and do different things in different conditions. Underway a tri doesn't have the manner of a Cat as basically the hull profiles are generally all in the water, much like a mono but then there's also Cats and then there's Cats as well. Low profile tunnel Cats, especially in the smaller vessels basically loose the real traits of a high tunnel cat design.

The cushioning effect of a tri simply doesn't have the same affect of a high tunnel cat but once one gets towards some (very generically speaking) of the larger tri's the dynamics change totally and again there's also tri's then there's tri's. There's been some real good tri's made but with most things length is all important.

Then again there's a wide variation in mono's, as simply the word mono covers a broad range of hulls and deadrise as well.

Most of the smaller tri's are wet to the point of extreme (in bad conditions) but a mono in the same conditions might be just as wet but simply not able to keep up the pace.

It's very simplistic simply comparing "Cats" and "Mono's" and even Tri's as there really needs some specifics to support many of the arguements from either camp about the pro's and con's of each.

Cheers, Kerry.

[snappa]

::)
a can of worms has been OPEN


does a gull wing design come in the realms of tri hulls.
why i ask is i have been in a gull wing off fraser island and the ride was no different to a mono.
same jarring and bashing :-X
the poll was just twin or mono because we could bring in the skippers ability to drive any boat ::)
just the twins rides softer and more crew friendy ;)

[banshee]

One has to wonder if the ride compensates for the extra cost of running and maintaining two motors,another point worth considering,when conditions are rough and you are enjoying your smooth ride your motors are sucking that fine mist that cats are renowned for.

[jaybee]

Talking of skippers snappa, have seen some big cats come unstuck on the tweed, but like u say, it all boils down to the skippa n safety, doesnt matter if its a mono or twin or tri, common sense prevails, but when it comes down to comfort, try n beat a cat
cheers
joe.

[snappa]

banshee

ALL MOTORS suck in the fine mist of salt water. ;D
only the cats produce more :-X
my motors have been ducted from new and the air is taken from inside the boat. ::)
yes you are right about the costs. :'(
but
my way of thinking is when i am outside on days by myself and no other boat around
i have the ability to keep going and get out of trouble ;D

[jaybee]

Fine mist mmm never had the problem my cat was a cc, i know from reports cuddy cabins had a problem, as for running costs i had twin 50s on mine, used 5 gals to n from the nine mile which was the same for the same sized mono. from what i have been told power a cat properly twin motors run cheeper then a mono in all weather, don't know cant complain about my old cat, i know today my 16 ft mono with a later motor uses more fuel tho, for a fact on the same run
cheers
joe.

[snappa]

jaybee

i know the first day i got my cat (without a canopy)
i was travelling over to moreton and half way across i notice my back was wet. >:(
sucking the spray back into the cabin area. :-X
shit i through getting wet without it been rough
what have i dont to myself. :-/
a new canopy and side curtains solved the problem.
NO MORE WET BACKS ;D

[banshee]

Your reply begs the question Jaybee,they're cheaper to run,they ride better,there is a stack out there for the right money,why do you have a mono? I have only been in two cats,I didn't like the way they turned,I didn't like the way they spewed spray out in front of the tunnel then drove through it and I didn't like the the way they behaved drift fishing side on in a decent swell.All cats pump copious amounts of mist out the rear of the tunnel,you probably couldn't pick it because it was bucketing in from the front,give me a nice mono cudy any day,I'll put up with the odd thump on the bad days.

[jaybee]

banshee, why do i have a mono today, well being on a disability support pension is part of the reason, (only just bought a boat after a long time ) happy :o. and as for the way a cat turns, its something you get used to , they lean out where a mono leans in so big deal :-/, you get use to it and then it feels a damn lot safer, as for spray, snappa answered that question, as i said mine was a centre consul, had no probs with spray, yes it did have a great rooster tail, but it didnt interfere with the sounder. my boat was a wet floor, made for fishing even on a good day had at least n inch of water across the floor, but thats what diver booties are for eh. it only had knee high gunnels. so banshee, it appears you need to get some experience up in cats before you rubbish them eh, (only being in them twice) if they were that bad, coast guard and asr wouldnt use them eh. go back a few years when the boat over turned off moreton, and redcliffe air sea rescue were there on the spot in a cat, taking waves over the stern, channel seven won an award for showing the rescue. Don't condemn something you have not had enough experience in, you make yourself look silly on the chat board eh. and yes put an 18 ft cat up against an 18 ft mono the cat using twins and the mono using the same in horsepower, the twins will win hands down on fuel consumption, this has been proven.
cheers
Joe.

[banshee]

Looks like I struck a bit of a nerve there Jaybee,guess I'll have to become a bit of an old sea dog like yourself before I have an opinion.

[jaybee]

hey banshee go fishing with snappa, guarantee after a few more trips you will be won over, if i had the money, and not this damn problem, find it hard enuff managing a 16 ft mono these days, i would buy snappas boat tormorrow. #;D Just got back from mooloolaba my bro says there a guy running around in a brand new 34 ft cat with twin 250s on the back, and has never seen anyone fishing with him, bugger. oh well i gotta go clean some fish
cheers
Joe.

[Kerry]

;D Ah as usual the same old comments, myths and misconceptions tend to pop up on this subject and generally from those who really have no overall long term experience in both hull types to really do some of the issues justice. Opinions are one thing but generally shouldn’t let those be confused with facts :-X.

There's really no outboard on any boat that doesn’t take in water to some extent and what might really surprise some is actually how much water outboards (on any boat) actually do inhale :o. For sure some early cats were well known for water problems but this myth that ALL Cats are renowned for it is a little off track but as usual a comment that always gets thrown up.

So no, to say ALL cats are renowned for water problems is a misconception as some actually do a little better than some conventional setups. In some cases outboard design was as much of a problem as hull design but manufacturers were never going to take some of the specific issues on board either. Some smaller Cats simply should never have been built.

As for skippering, a Cat might/can be a little more forgiving to a slack inattentive skipper but the thinking that one just points em and bingo they do it by themselves it way, way off the mark. Mind you Cats certainly are not bullet proof regardless what has been portrayed of them or what they do best. Push a Cat over the edge and they will come unstuck (big time) but it’s a long way past where a mono will let you down. A lot of the time it’s the skipper letting the boat down?

The way Cats turn, gee that’s simply what they do and really is irrelevant to any discussion between Cats and mono’s, non-issue.

Side ways drift is also another one of those misguided arguments. Sure they drift sideways if the skipper doesn’t know how to control his vessel but using steering and individual tilt/trim on each engine a cat is actually much more controllable than a mono. This steering/heading principle using adjustable height dagger/rudder boards is an age-old method used by the Polynesians.

Cost, sure they cost more, there’s much more material, time and labor in a Cat than a similar size mono. Running/purchase costs are basically no different compared to twins on a mono. With a Cat one really doesn’t have an option but twins by design. Any Cats suitable for a single really doesn’t/can’t have all the Cat type attributes.

As usual some of the other common complaints are nit picking and generally based on an environment where Cats were neither intended nor totally suitable but then it really depends on many more variables and qualifiers than some of the age-old one-liners.

Cats aren’t for everybody they are specialized in some ways for some purposes and don’t serve everyone’s requirements but for what they were designed for and what most people use them for then there simply isn’t any comparison (in general) to a mono. They all go up and down in a sea just that some do it better than others depending on the sea and the purpose for being at sea.

Cheers, Kerry.

[bj]

Cats turn out when turning mmmmm. Try a Canyon Runner by Mark Hookam that will change your opinion.Not many on the Ausfish site has heard about them as I put a post up a few weeks ago and never got a reply,now we have the experts giving there biased opinion and have never heard of one of the best cats built.Sorry thats my opinion and I stick by it.Owned a Markham Whaler built by Mark Hookam many years ago and it was brillant.Cheers.

[banshee]

When I upgraded I did my homework,fact or fiction these were the points that constantly came up(mechanics that serviced pro boats,other boaters etc.).I picked very ordinary days to go for a fish in these boats,I still believe that the ride is all these hulls have over a mono.As a rec only fisherman I found runing and maintanence costs unattractive(I still don't believe you can run two 60's or 75's for less than a 90 or 115)for Pro fishermen,rescue groups,Charter operators these boats are a viable proposition.A point of interest,my mate lost his boat at Ballina some months back,the Coast Guard deemed it safer to leave the cat moored and send the Surf Life Saving jet boat(mono) out for him.

[Kerry]

"I picked very ordinary days to go for a fish in these boats" Was these the 2 Cats?

"I still believe that the ride is all these hulls have over a mono" Well I suppose that answers the question that this post actually asked.

"As a rec only fisherman I found runing and maintanence costs unattractive(I still don't believe you can run two 60's or 75's for less than a 90 or 115)"

Yes, that's one of those personal opinion things, horses for courses. One has to weigh cost against many things, it's not that simple. Really is there any difference with twins on any vessel. As a rule of thumb say twin 60's, the second engine equates to the extra 10% fuel the 60's would burn compared to a 120. However there's much more to the equation and reasoning than simply fuel.

"for Pro fishermen,rescue groups,Charter operators these boats are a viable proposition."

Yes, No, maybe, possibly, depends.

"A point of interest,my mate lost his boat at Ballina some months back,the Coast Guard deemed it safer to leave the cat moored and send the Surf Life Saving jet boat(mono) out for him."

Simply because it was a "Mono" or the fact it was a jet plus a few other things? Might also ask the question if it was that bad what was he doing out in the first place?

In general Cost justification for & against is one of those things and if anybody wants an overall picture of that type of discussion then have a read of the following (one might have to login but that's not a drama to read this post)

http://thehulltruth.com/6/ubb.x?q=Y&a=tpc&s=382602711&f=848609331&m=7926078571&p=1

It's interesting to say the least and this was the second time around.

Cheers, Kerry.

[banshee]

Firstly yes these were the two cats I have refered to,secondly,as this question was mute(there was only ever going to be one answer)and was turning into a collection of cat lovers pissing in each others pockets,I thought I would put a different point of view across.As for my mate,his sole intention for the day was to test his brand new sounder,2 to 3 miles upstream his 3 year old motor backfired and siezed,the upper river was in a state of minor flood this combined with a run out tide rendered his sand anchor useless.On reaching the minor break half a mile from the bar proper,he was back on and was capsised he then was swept out through an angry 3 metre bar clinging to the bow rail and nose of his upturned hull.The chopper arrived just after the surf lads crossed the bar,they pin pointed him the jet boat picked him up,so I guess the answer to this one is he did not intentionaly go out.

[Kerry]

Well Banshee I can discuss the pro's and con's of Cats and Mono's and as far as your reference to "cat lovers pissing in each others pockets" that basically highlights you really don't have an open mind in discussing anything.

As for a different point of view it really wouldn't matter if it was 2 cats or 2 mono's or 2 canoes and x number of mechanics it really doesn't qualify anything factual, just an opinion and that's fine but fortuneately history tells another story.

It really doesn't matter what suits a persons particular purpose, need, application,usage etc and basically your saying a Cat doesn't suit your purpose because of the cost and maintainence issues etc and that reasoning is for your particular circumstances and that's fine.

Some of your points are really non quanitative as far as trying to compare and overall cost v ride v maintainance v fuel v safety v use and come up with some single mathematical figure that says X is better than Y. X can be better than Y when all circumstances are taken into account and prioritized for a particular persons circumstances and that cost (and generally costs are a major factor that limits the best outcome) is what a particular person sees as best suiting "their" needs.

So based on the use of a Surf jet boat, should coastguard, VMR's etc all use Jetboats, of course not, a jetboat has it's place and purpose and in some instances they are also very limited and really we don't want to get into the maintainance and running costs of a jetboat do we :-X

Cheers, Kerry.

[damons33]

guys i got a plate mono thats short n fat and relatively shallow it will broach 180* to face the wave that tried to deck it then, plane on its gunnels try doing that in a cat, haha. enuff fun!
# #you kat lovers are all the same! exspecially you kerry with your "hollier then thou !" open mindedness maybe you should be on a same sex forum??? hahaaaaa!!!!!! i'm sorry mate but you know what i'm saying as i didn't mean to write that! #:-*
# as for the economy we'll let costello worry bout that hey! i seen the princess of all trailer monos' 8) for ride and speed the cyclone 680 this thing looks like it comes from the set of miami vice or is a scaled down offshore racer so you cat brigants are all good till you poop your pants when you catch a sponsen and get flipped, this cigarette hull kicks a cat as it will get 55knots from 135 optimax on flat water and it can be bought to take more horses(225)so what then do you guys say when a boat passes you in the bay doing 100 old fashioned miles an hour? errrrrhhhhh???? derhhhhhhhhhh?????
wise words from capt. mono! ahhhaarrrhhhh!

[Kerry]

Don't worry boy racer, when you see an offshore racing hull (one of the real ones) you'll think your seeing double #;D 55 knots my ar.. #[smiley=dunce.gif]

Really don't know if one would call them Cats #??? or not but having 2 hulls I suppose they qualify #???. New game for ya Damons it's called Spot the Mono (http://www.class1.worldoffshore.com/teams99/teams.htm). Many more games like this one, should keep you amused for hours #::) Obviously irrelvent to the issue, but more crap to go with your irrelevance damons. Say have you actually got anything constructive to say or will you just crap on as usual. #

Cheers, Kerry.

[damons33]

its all good kezza!